Behold

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I read it.

Its your interpretation.

I see things a bit differently.

Actually its not my interpretation.
Let me show you why..
See, you kept asking me if i sin...
And the reason i told you that there is no sin in Christ and that there is no sin found in God's righteousness, is because this is where I EXIST = Born again.

Now look at this verse...

Philippians 3:15
"""Let us therefore, as many as be perfect"""

Now do you see that word PERFECT.... That is Paul talking to you, and me showing you the verse.
Got that?
As many as BE PERFECT....
That means "PERFECT"....it does not mean "sinning and repenting" Christian failure who is carnal and spiritually blind.
Understand?
Its means that all believers , all the born again, are to ATTAIN "perfect", as this is perfected discipleship.. This is to become on this Earth, = "the fullness of the Stature of Christ".
That is to be "perfect".
You dont understand this, and that is why you are sinning and repenting and think this is what i do.
I assure you its not.
Now, interpret that.
 
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Lost4words

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Actually its not my interpretation.
Let me show you why..
See, you kept asking me if i sin...
And the reason i told you that there is no sin in Christ and that there is no sin found in God's righteousness, is because this is where I EXIST = Born again.

Now look at this verse...

Philippians 3:15
"""Let us therefore, as many as be perfect"""

Now do you see that word PERFECT.... That is Paul talking to you, and me showing you the verse.
Got that?
As many as BE PERFECT....
That means "PERFECT"....it does not mean "sinning and repenting" Christian failure who is carnal and spiritually blind.
Understand?
Its means that all believers , all the born again, are to ATTAIN "perfect", as this is perfected discipleship.. This is to become on this Earth, = "the fullness of the Stature of Christ".
That is to be "perfect".
You dont understand this, and that is why you are sinning and repenting and think this is what i do.
I assure you its not.
Now, interpret that.

You side step my question of sin as you very well know that we ALL sin.

You interpret the scriptures to suit your very own individual beliefs.

Out of here now as i am getting dizzy.

God bless you
 
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5thKingdom

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Actually its not my interpretation. Let me show you why.. See, you kept asking me if i sin... And the reason i told you that there is no sin in Christ and that there is no sin found in God's righteousness, is because this is where I EXIST = Born again.


So you think you know better than the Apostle John and
you think you live more righteously than the Apostle who
Christ LOVED.


1John 1:8 10
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves,
and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful
and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned,we make him a liar,
and his word is not in us
.



.
 
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nolidad

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Paul said this......"if you walk in the Spirit, you will not sin". "will not commit works of the flesh".
If you are walking instead, in the flesh, you are repenting of carnal deeds, not sin.
"sin" is only in effect when there is the "dominion of the Law".
The born again, are this....>"Christ has redeemed us from the CURSE of the LAW".
That "curse" is the law's dominion that defined you as a sinner, when it had the authority to do so.
Christ has redeemed the born again from the Law's authority, and that is why Paul now title's carnal deeds as "works of the flesh".
These are the same deeds that were defined as SIN, but are now not defined as sin, because we the born again are under a NEW DOMINION, as we exist IN the Kingdom of God.
We are this...."you are not under the LAW, but under GRACE".

Grace is our dominion, and Grace does not define us as a sinner or our deeds as sin.
It can't because Christ has resolved our sin issue. Colossians 2:13.
This is why we will never face judgment for our sin, in Eternity.
This is why we meet God as FATHER and not as JUDGE.
This is why ROMANS 4:8 is in the NEW Testament.

Well given as Gentiles we were never under the Law it is an irrelevancy! We were born dead in our trespasses and sins and alienatred from God by birth! as Paul write in Ephesians.

But what you wrote is very right on! I can Amen it many times over. But to say that it means a believer must live a sinless life till death is wrong. And if you believe that one can lose their salvation due to sin, then you are ignorant of the message and meaning of Jesus shed blood at the Cross!
 
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5thKingdom

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You dont understand this, and that is why you are sinning and repenting and think this is what i do. I assure you its not.


Four things:

And I say this with all due respect but with truthfulness.
While I do not agree with your gospel, this is not about that.
This is ONLY about your statement (above) where you assure
us that you do not sin, or do not sin and repent. I am not
trying to add words to your statement.


(1) The word translated "perfect" could also be translated
as the word "complete", as in a fully mature Christian. If your "interpretation" is that men can be SINLESS while in the flesh,
then you (according to the Apostle John) are only deceiving
yourself, calling Jesus a LIAR and also showing that His Word
is not in you. The passage speaks for itself (below)


1John 1:8-10
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves,
and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful
and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned,
we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.


(2) I have seen YOU SIN several times on this forum as you
intentionally omit parts of messages and intentionally ignore
arguments or Scriptures that contradict your words. So do
not pretend that you are sinless. None of us is sinless.


(3) I do not mean to discourage you from encouraging people
to be complete or perfect in Christ... in fact, I find that kind of
encouragement commendable. But to pretend that you do
not sin (or others can live a sinless life in this flesh) is just
going a little too far. If Paul could not do it, how can we?


(4) If you made the argument that is was not YOU that sins,
that it's just your flesh that sins, then I could see an argument.
But you never implied that is your argument, not that I can see.


.
 
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5thKingdom

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Its means that all believers , all the born again, are to ATTAIN "perfect", as this is perfected discipleship.. This is to become on this Earth, = "the fullness of the Stature of Christ". That is to be "perfect". You dont understand this, and that is why you are sinning and repenting and think this is what i do. I assure you its not. Now, interpret that.



Next argument:

While we see that SCRIPTURE says that some born-again
believers bring forth fruit "an hundredfold", which you could
use to support your argument of not sinning while in the flesh
(although it would still be a tenuous argument), we also see that
it was never God's intention that ALL BELIEVERS reach that stage
of sanctification - as some produce thirtyfold or sixtyfold.


So, while it is commendable to encourage people to live
as perfectly as possible, it appears your argument cannot
pass the test of harmonizing with ALL RELATED Scripture.


And we know the only measure of Biblical Truth is to be able
to harmonize your theory with ALL RELATED passages.


Mat 13:8-9
But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit,
some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.


Mar 4:20
And these are they which are sown on good ground;
such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit,
some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.



.
 
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Behold

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But to say that it means a believer must live a sinless life till death is wrong. And if you believe that one can lose their salvation due to sin, then you are ignorant of the message and meaning of Jesus shed blood at the Cross!

I actually teach that its impossible for a born again Christian to end up in hell. (Lose your salvation).
Also, its a fact that we as believers are to get out of the cradle , out of the diapers, and move away from the baby steps of "confessing, and repenting"...
We are to leave this place of "baby christian" understanding and grow up into right believing.
Let Paul explain it...

"""Therefore let us (born again) move beyond the elementary (baby christian) teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead (works of the flesh) acts""""

Anytime you want to spot the christian infant, they'll be talking constantly about repenting, 1 Jn, and "losing salvation".

Notice this.
 
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Behold

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it was never God's intention that ALL BELIEVERS reach that stage

Its God's intention that all believers learn how to stop confessing and repenting.
Its God's intention that all believers grow in the the fullness of the Stature of Christ. = on earth
Its God's intention that all believers will be 100% conformed "into the image of Christ".

ITs your intention, 5htkingdome to tell believers that its not God's intention that they reach full maturity in Christ.
You are a dark light.
 
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5thKingdom

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Its God's intention that all believers learn how to stop confessing and repenting.
Its God's intention that all believers grow in the the fullness of the Stature of Christ. = on earth
Its God's intention that all believers will be 100% conformed "into the image of Christ".

ITs your intention, 5htkingdome to tell believers that its not God's intention that they reach full maturity in Christ.
You are a dark light.


I simply quoted some Scripture to you.
If you disagree with the Scripture do not complain to me,
I did not write the verses.

Your teaching contradicts these passages...
what else is there to say?

You do not have to LIKE what Scripture says and you do not
have to ACCEPT what Scripture says but you cannot change
Biblical Truth by contradicting what Scripture says.


Mat 13:8-9
But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit,
some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.


Mar 4:20
And these are they which are sown on good ground;
such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit,
some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.


.
 
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5thKingdom

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Its God's intention... Its God's intention... Its God's intention... .


You just said "it's God's intention" three times.
So, if it's God's intention that something happens and
God is Sovereign (which He is) then that thing will happen.

If you are saying that thing is NOT happening then clearly
you do not understand what God intends.

Is that simple enough for you to understand?

.
 
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5thKingdom

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ITs your intention, 5htkingdome to tell believers that its not God's intention that they reach full maturity in Christ.
You are a dark light.


Be careful now... talk like that is against Forum rules.

I sent you SCRIPTURE that contradicts your teachings.
If you do not LIKE the Scripture, do not blame me,
I did not write the verses.

.
 
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5thKingdom

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Let Paul explain it...

"""Therefore let us (born again) move beyond the elementary (baby christian) teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead (works of the flesh) acts"""".



Yes, let Paul explain:
I am sure it it's possible to live a sinless life then
Paul would have been the man to do so.... right?


Rom 7:19
For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not,
that I do.

Rom 7:23-25
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.


.
 
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JulieB67

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not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead (works of the flesh) acts""""

You completely missed what Paul is teaching here.

Hebrews 6:1 "Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Paul is saying, after you have been saved, you do not need to keep laying again, the foundation of repentance. We know that Christ is that foundation. He did not say one needs to stop confessing or repenting. Those are your words, not Paul's.

Hebrews 6:2 "Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Paul is teaching here that if all you talk about are the issues of salvation and baptisms, etc after someone has already been saved, then you will never move pass the milk and move into God's Word. When someone has been saved it's impossible to renew them into repentance with laying out the foundation of Christ again. They already know the foundation is Christ and that's the point. It does not mean someone doesn't need to repent anymore after sinning. True repentance is a change of heart/ a new way of thinking. Sometimes it takes someone awhile to come to that in all aspects of their life. And even after we have come to that, we still fall short at times, we always will. John says if we do, we have an advocate in Jesus. That's the beauty of Christianity.

But Paul wants us to move into the sanctification/maturity process after salvation. He does not want us to be soly fixed on salvation and baptism issues. That is the milk. We need to move past the milk after salvation and into the meat of God's Word, beginning to end. We can only come to true maturity as a Christian by doing that.

And there are some Christians like that, only knowing salvation issues, and never move past that into reading the rest of the Bible.


And you seem to think every Christian is the same, and they sin because of this, etc.
Every Christian is on their own path and in different stages of coming into maturity/Sanctification. And only the Holy Spirit can truly guide them into where they need to be.
 
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5thKingdom

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Its God's intention that all believers learn how to stop confessing and repenting.
Its God's intention that all believers grow in the the fullness of the Stature of Christ. = on earth
Its God's intention that all believers will be 100% conformed "into the image of Christ".


You just said "it's God's intention" three times.
So, if it's God's intention that something happens and
God is Sovereign (which He is) then that thing will happen.

If you are saying that thing is NOT happening then clearly
you do not understand what God intends.

Is that simple enough for you to understand?


.
 
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