Stop Normalizing Trump

[IceJad]

Except it appears they have deemed my group over here as "the enemy".

I am not the same as a fascist, we aren't fascist at all. I think we are bending over backwards to get along.

That's is why I call their view of the world delusional. In a way they are brainwashed. It is very hard to deprogram a person who has convinced himself/herself that they have the absolute truth. Even when presented with the true situation they will mentally refuse to concede.

Which is also the reason why so many of them act irrationally aggressive towards others.

Of course you're not fascist. No well adjusted person will even say that. Don't burden yourself with thoughts of your own inequities, the fault is clearly theirs. Anti-fascist using tactics a fascist would use is not an untrue observation from bias perspective. I can say that for I'm not American, I support neither the Red nor the Blue team. I only observe.

But to be fair both sides have people who - how should I call it - unhinged. It is sad that regular folks like yourself are caught up in the middle.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Good gravy! Does the Left have some kind of think-tank that just makes up new terms on the fly, like every day?

"Sane-washing" .... that's a good one. I'm going to have to start using it.

According to this article
Urban Dictionary: sanewashing

and was originally used on a "neo-liberal" to describe the efforts of progressives to down play the radical nature of their positions. The current usage relative to Mr. Trump seems to be more about making his statements seem less nuts.

 

[FireDragon76]

Why is anti fascism so fascist in practice?

That's a baiting question, and insincere.

 

[rambot]

But anyway, Trump doesn't need to be normalized. He's already normal.

I cannot imagine a rubberized bulldozer scraping something off a beach that is less normal than Trump.

 

[rambot]

Isn't that negative prejudice?
It's not exactly in keeping with "love thy neighbor as thyself" to be calling people names like that.

A clinical diagnosis is not a name.

Just. Fyi

 

[IceJad]

That's a baiting question, and insincere.

Is it really insincere given so many examples of their acts? It is a valid question. What is an anti-fascist and what is a fascist? Because if you look at modern groups usually associated with the words, you will find that their actions don't fit the labels.

If honesty is what you're looking for then you should also honestly review the usage of the word "fascist". Just because some people like to call someone a fascist doesn't make the person one. You can call an animal that barks a cat doesn't make it one.

So in sincerity who are the fascists you're referring to and what are the acts that were carried out that define them as fascist? A definition that will last the test of time like WW2 and not forgotten with the ebb of the tide.

Only then can you make an argument for normalizing anti-fascism. If anyone should take leave of "centrist" liberalism convert to anti-fascism let the merits of them be carefully and clearly laid out.

 

[FireDragon76]

Is it really insincere given so many examples of their acts? It is a valid question. What is an anti-fascist and what is a fascist? Because if you look at modern groups usually associated with the words, you will find that their actions don't fit the labels.

Being antifascist means just what it says, being against fascism. Fascism is not merely a presumed aesthetic, it is an authoritarian populist ideology built on xenophobia, nationalist myths and conspiracy theories. A person who is opposed to fascism is not, by definition , a fascist, and it's dishonest to imply otherwise.

Fascism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[IceJad]

Being antifascist means just what it says, being against fascism. Fascism is not merely a presumed aesthetic, it is an authoritarian populist ideology built on xenophobia, nationalist myths and conspiracy theories. A person who is opposed to fascism is not, by definition , a fascist, and it's dishonest to imply otherwise.

Fascism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And based on that definition where is such a fascist in current day America that needs contending with? To be precise who are they? Is it the conservatives? The radical right? Trumpers? Southerners? The KKK? Or maybe none of the mentioned.

Also being in opposition to an ideology doesn't make a person immune from becoming the exact thing. Maybe not in name but in act.

 

[Hazelelponi]

That's a baiting question, and insincere.

Actually it wasn't in the least bit insincere. But I got my answer.

P.S. I haven't tried to win a debate in a very long time, or even have one.

 

[Vanellus]

It seems like the NYT protesters are being criticised in this thread for protesting.

So what about the suffragettes, the Chartists, the Boston Tea partygoers?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

According to this article
Urban Dictionary: sanewashing

and was originally used on a "neo-liberal" to describe the efforts of progressives to down play the radical nature of their positions. The current usage relative to Mr. Trump seems to be more about making his statements seem less nuts.

Apparently, "sanewashing" is of fairly recent origin, although from your post, I can see that it's not brand new (c. ~2020). But thanks for the "urban" definition. I kind of figured that's what it meant.

LibGuides: Fake News & Fake Facts: Media Literacy Awareness: Recognize Gaslighting and Sanewashing

Learn how language can be used to in a way that it affects the way people perceive reality. Unlike real news, whose purpose is to simply inform, the main purpose of disinformation is to confuse and manipulate people.

westerntc.libguides.com

So, am I to take it that sanewashing was actually a term coined by a Republican conservative to apply to Progressives?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

For all of the abnormalities that Trump has (and there are several).

This kind of stuff only galvanized his supporters behind him.

(the WaPo article is from January of 2017)
The effort to impeach President Donald John Trump is already underway.
At the moment the new commander in chief was sworn in, a campaign to build public support for his impeachment went live at ImpeachDonaldTrumpNow.org, spearheaded by two liberal advocacy groups aiming to lay the groundwork for his eventual ejection from the White House.

The organizers behind the campaign, Free Speech for People and RootsAction, are hinging their case on Trump’s insistence on maintaining ownership of his golf course business while in office.


This isn't "normal" either.

Advocacy groups forming "Impeach Day 1" PACs (that formed before he even officially took office, and their website - which has since been changed - originally had a countdown timer on it counting down the hours/minutes until he was sworn in, to be able to begin pushing impeachment efforts).

"We didn't win, so we're going to try to impeach your guy before he even gets out of the chute"


While that's obviously not as bad as election denialism, conspiracies, etc...

It's not a "nothingburger" either.

Both come from a mentality of "we should be the ones in power, so even if your team wins, we're going to find a way to make sure you don't actually win"

Again, not as bad as election denialism...just to restate that, I'm not making an equivalence here, but a "alright, they won, so between now and January, we need to find a bunch of stuff we can throw at the wall until something sticks so we can push to remove them Day 1" could certainly be seen as the "kid cousin" in the world of "not wanting to accept election consequences"

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Being antifascist means just what it says, being against fascism. Fascism is not merely a presumed aesthetic, it is an authoritarian populist ideology built on xenophobia, nationalist myths and conspiracy theories. A person who is opposed to fascism is not, by definition , a fascist, and it's dishonest to imply otherwise.

Fascism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Does being antifascist also mean I can safely be anti-Communist as well .............?

I'm asking because I'm just wondering how a firmly "anti-fascist" position works itself out in real, democratic time and space.

Haven't we in the U.S. been "anti-fascist" for several decades now already?

 

[HARK!]

MOD HAT ON

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[Chesterton]

Again, not as bad as election denialism...

Just listen from 4:40 to 8:23 for some truth about election denialism. (Posted for the benefit of members here who may be young, or have bad memories, or wish to deny denialism when their side does it.)

 

[childeye 2]

Just listen from 4:40 to 8:23 for some truth about election denialism. (Posted for the benefit of members here who may be young, or have bad memories, or wish to deny denialism when their side does it.)

Wow. I would love to sit down and debate these guys or anyone who agrees with their point of view.

 

[Aldebaran]

I cannot imagine a rubberized bulldozer scraping something off a beach that is less normal than Trump.

Whew! That's some nice dehumanizing speech you got there!
But I guess dehumanizing people is ok now.

 

[Aldebaran]

A clinical diagnosis is not a name.

Just. Fyi

I'll wait for his/her medical degree to be posted before I accept that.

 

[childeye 2]

I'll wait for his/her medical degree to be posted before I accept that.

The New York Times has written several articles about Trump and malignant narcissism. They have interviewed several licensed psychiatrists. The Atlantic did an article in 2016.


You can see or read other mental health experts speaking about it online. Or you can go to YouTube and find several psychiatrists talking about it there. Or you can read the Book "The dangerous case of Donald Trump", The book's editor Dr. Brandy Lee showcases 27 psychiatrists who openly talk about it. Here is a short interview with Lawrence O'Donnell.

Go to 4:45 if you're in a hurry.

 

[Aldebaran]

You can see mental experts online speak about it. Or you can go to YouTube and find psychiatrists talking about it there. Or you can read the Book "The dangerous case of Donald Trump", The books editor Dr. Brandy Lee showcases 27 psychiatrists who openly talk about it. Here is a short interview with Lawrence O'Donnell.

Go to 4:45.

Or you could go to Glenn Beck's radio program and hear how much sense Trump has been making in his bid to become president.