statuettes.... Error?!?

[thereselittleflower]

Sorry, that was dense of me.
I was thinking she was teaching Him his reading, didn't pay attention; she was teaching Him the Scriptures?

Imagine that.


ANYhow...
Praise God for His Son!

</IMG>

This was all addressed earlier in the thread and shown to be a none issue . . ..


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[Uphill Battle]

This was all addressed earlier in the thread and shown to be a none issue . . ..


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addressed, yes, but not satisfactorily, I think. Whether or not the error is innocous or not, Mary teaching scripture to Jesus is error. It would not happen.

 

[thereselittleflower]

addressed, yes, but not satisfactorily, I think. Whether or not the error is innocous or not, Mary teaching scripture to Jesus is error. It would not happen.

OK . . now I know this is not a thread in which answers were seriously sought . . .

When the OP rejects the simple and plain answer in favor of his own ideas, then there is no point in continuing this thread . . it is indeed a slam fest against Catholics . . and that is what it appears to be if our simple answers are going to be thrown back in our faces like that . .

What part of "symbolic" rather than "literal" representation didn't you understand UB?


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[Uphill Battle]

OK . . now I know this is not a thread in which answers were seriously sought . . .

When the OP rejects the simple and plain answer in favor of his own ideas, then there is no point in continuing this thread . . it is indeed a slam fest against Catholics . . and that is what it appears to be if our simple answers are going to be thrown back in our faces like that . .

What part of "symbolic" rather than "literal" representation didn't you understand UB?


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understand if fully. however, showing Mary teaching Christ symbolically would be WORSE, not better, IMHO.

BTW, just because we don't see eye to eye, doesn't mean I'm slamming you, or your faith. I often wonder why the RC's are so defensive... That's a matter for another thread though.

 

[thereselittleflower]

understand if fully. however, showing Mary teaching Christ symbolically would be WORSE, not better, IMHO.

How would you reprensent the teaching all mothers gave their young children UB? Do you think that mothers didn't teach their young children while the father was engaged in earning a living? Do you think that mothers didn't teach their children the basics of the Jewish faith from their earlist days?

How would you represent that teaching in art form?

Please come up with a better way if you are going to judge ours. . .

BTW, just because we don't see eye to eye, doesn't mean I'm slamming you, or your faith. I often wonder why the RC's are so defensive... That's a matter for another thread though.

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[LittleLambofJesus]

How would you reprensent the teaching all mothers gave their young children UB? Do you think that mothers didn't teach their young children while the father was engaged in earning a living? Do you think that mothers didn't teach their children the basics of the Jewish faith from their earliest days?

Hi. Well the Jews do seem to favor Esther in the OC a lot.

Esther 5:3 And the king said to her, "What do you wish, Queen Esther? What [is] your request? It shall be given to you -- up to half the kingdom!" 4 So Esther answered, "If it pleases the king, let the king and Haman come today to the banquet that I have prepared for him." 5 Then the king said, "Bring Haman quickly, that he may do as Esther has said." So the king and Haman went to the banquet that Esther had prepared.

 

[Benedicta00]

understand if fully. however, showing Mary teaching Christ symbolically would be WORSE, not better, IMHO.

BTW, just because we don't see eye to eye, doesn't mean I'm slamming you, or your faith. I often wonder why the RC's are so defensive... That's a matter for another thread though.

surly you jest.

 

[thereselittleflower]

UB . .

I suspect that most religious traditions acknowledge the importance of mothers in the religious training of children. This is certainly the case with regard to Jewish tradition, where mothers are specifically assigned a predominant role in the religious education of young children. We need only read the first few pages of the Siddur, the Jewish prayerbook, to find some proof for this. Every day at the morning or Shacharit service, we read the following verse from the book of Proverbs: Remember my child to heed the words of your father and to not forget the instruction of your mother (Proverbs 31).

No doubt that the author of Proberbs certainly meant what he or she said; both Jewish parents have a role in the religious instruction of Jewish children. But I want to look more closely at the ´instruction of the mother´ both with regard to the content of her instruction and the particular context in which her teaching took and probably still takes place. Two points are important here. First, we must acknowledge that for countless generations, the locus of mother´s teaching was limited to the domestic arena - the Jewish home. May I point out the importance of ´the Jewish home´ in Jewish tradition: the ´Jewish home´ became - and to some extent remains as much a concept in Judaism as a physically identifable place. It is here that the essentials of Judaism are taught and where many of the essentials of Judaism, the 613 mitzvot or commandments, were inculcated and practiced.
​

REgarding the role of woman in Judaism, this is a very interesting read:

http://www.jewfaq.org/women.htm

A quote from the above page:

Judaism is something that permeates every aspect of your life, every thing that you do, from the time you wake up in the morning to the time you go to bed, from what you eat and how you dress to how you conduct business.​

How could Mary NOT be teaching the child Jesus Judaism just by her own living it?


You see, your argument against a statue symbolically depicting this teaching of Judaism by Mary to the child Jesus has no merrit. . . . . . .


.

 

[Benedicta00]

This is what I posted awhile back...why can't we believe Catholics when they say they don't worship statues, or saints or Mary? Ok, to many it may look that way, simply because we do not practice this.
But we do NOT know the hearts of people who do this. We do NOT know exactly why they are doing this. The Catholic posters on this board have stated over and over they do not worship these statues or the people they represent. So, why do we continue arguing that they are?
I can understand why some of the posters have gotten upset and may come across as angry. They probably get tired of being told over and over that what they are doing is wrong. They are tired of being misunderstood when they have tried to explain over and over.
Maybe we all need to try to look at things from the other persons perspective before posting?

rosie, you are being honest and I appreciate that.

I know how it looks to non Catholics, people who never were Catholic and I do not fault them but for those who were supposedly raised and/or was Catholic for several years, they know the Church has NEVER taught them that saints are to be worship, they know when they genuflected that is all they were doing, was genuflecting, and not bowing down to.

We do not worship the saints, we do not bow down to them. We genuflect in honor of who they were/are in heaven.

We don't have to even do this if we do not want to.

I truly do not know what is happening here, other than people do not like being shown that they are wrong about us??

I don't know why our explanations are not suffice. You can still disagree with the practice but don't tell us what we are doing or that the Church teaches us to do something it doesn't.

That's really not nice and baring a false witness. And I don't mean you as in personal you Rosie, but you as in general you.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

We do not worship the saints, we do not bow down to them. We genuflect in honor of who they were/are in heaven.

Hi. So a saint has to die first before you genuflect to honor them? How is one judged a saint to get this "honor"? Just curious

 

[Uphill Battle]

surly you jest.

no, I don't.

 

[Benedicta00]

`

Hi. So a saint has to die first before you genuflect to honor them? How is one judged a saint to get this "honor"? Just curious

All;

We do not worship saints, we do not worship Mary. We worship God alone and I am sorry if this is not understood properly or if it is a reality that can not be accepted but it's the truth. We don't.

If any one person here wants to complain and say having images and genuflecting to them is anti biblical then that is what you believe and I do not disrespect it, I disagree with it but I respect your freedom to believe as you will.

But let's get this settled, we do not worship the statue nor the saint. period.

If anyone want to argue with us and tell us that we do, i think you need to keep that opinion to yourself, since it is offense and a insult to us and it more us less implies that we are either to stupid to know what we are doing or that we are lying to you all.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

We do not worship saints, we do not worship Mary. We worship God alone and I am sorry if this is not understood properly or if it is a reality that can not be accepted but it's the truth. We don't.

Hi. That isn't what I was asking about. How are ones picked to have an Icon made of

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus
Hi. So a saint has to die first before you genuflect to honor them? How is one judged a saint to get this "honor"? Just curious

 

[Benedicta00]

no, I don't.

Surly you had to see this coming.

 

[Benedicta00]

Hi. That isn't what I was asking about. How are ones picked to have an Icon made of

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus
Hi. So a saint has to die first before you genuflect to honor them? How is one judged a saint to get this "honor"? Just curious

I know, i don't know how your quote got in there.

 

[Benedicta00]

&#8220;They don't want peace..they want to be right and rude. And people wonder why I don't want anything to do with their believes&#8221;
This page got rough, people said remarks like &#8220;I can not agree with anything that put angels or saints above God&#8221; and things to the effect of the Catholic Church is going to abandon God altogether. This started off as to why this one little store had some funny statues, it got turned into a iconoclast war, and it was not the Catholics who steered the conversation away from the original purpose. People are saying we do not really worship God and we are called rude when we defend ourselves.
The statues in church are devotional tools to draw our minds to Christ or to meditate on the lives of the saints, if the next thing you have to say is &#8220;well I use the Bible&#8221; you can just not say it because ALL CHRISTIANS USE THE BIBLE, I know you use the Bible, I use the Bible. The Catholics and the Orthodox really are Bible believing Christians and to say a thing like &#8220;well you use statues and I use the Bible&#8221; is a false comparison. I better comparison would be &#8220;you use statues and I use a plain cross or nails&#8221; or whatever you use to help you focus on God when your not using the Bible. I am glad how only a few people got upset over the Peter=Jupiter thing but when someone says something &#8220;rude&#8221; there are always enough people to correct error. I for one am really mad right now, and I am not ashamed of it at all, ridicules claims have been taken seriously and treated like a valid reason for concern. It is a sad thing that I have to respond to something as silly as Peter=Jupiter, it is personally demeaning, but such a bold face lie can not go unchallenged.

I know... defending oneself against slander is not rude. It's just.

 

[Benedicta00]

If we really did worship wood, paint and stone (or the prototypes depicted), why would we deny it ? It's not like iconoclasts are God's policemen who will arrest us and we will go to jail

This is why it is so offensive, first we are accused of something we do not do, and then on top of that we are implicitly made out to be liars.

And rude ones at that... Well not you, your're patient and kind. lol.

 

[Gwenyfur]

I think I get it...
I think...

It's like the Baptists at my hubby's church (don't take offense yet, keep reading please) when they go up to the altar to pray for whatever reason...some of them look up to the cross that's hanging over the baptistry while they're praying...

the statues of the saints are kinda like that ... a focus tool...a reminder that if they could live godly lives you can too???????

am I close?

 

[Benedicta00]

I do not myself have a problem with having a statue.. I do though have a problem with people talking to them. Bowing to them. Kissing their feet. Dressing them up. Carrying them around the streets as if they are to be something to admire.. This is where I have a problem..

Then you don't have to do it. This is not a doctrine in the Church to do it. It's a devotional practice.

 

[Uphill Battle]

Surly you had to see this coming.

yep.... I can't really control what other people do.