Stanford study: Masks useless for Covid

[Halbhh]

The human immune system can often fight off a small number of virus particles entirely and stop infection from even occurring.

2nd, even if the virus exposure is a little too much for that initial generic defense, and infection does occur, it still matters very greatly how heavy that initial exposure is --


...face masks, by blocking even some of the virus-carrying droplets you inhale, can reduce your risk of falling seriously ill from COVID-19, according to Monica Gandhi, MD, an infectious disease specialist at UC San Francisco.

“The more virus you get into your body, the more sick you are likely to get,” she said.

One More Reason to Wear a Mask: You’ll Get Less Sick From COVID-19

This is because more initial virus particles gives a virus a head-start on replicating to more quickly reaching a high number in the body. A low initial number of virus particles means it takes longer for the virus to multiply to reach that high level, and that longer time means more time for the immune system to make antibodies before the virus is at a high level.

Some of you might be interested in this--
@ranunculus
@Triumvirate
@High Fidelity
@Michael Collum
@Mayzoo
@Aldebaran

And there’s these:

Are Face Masks Effective? The Evidence.

Mask Facts - The Model Health Show

 

[expos4ever]

The vaccine can and does kill too.

But at a much, much lower rate. Now that you know this, if you ignore this in your arguments going forward, you will be called out on it.

Not taking the vaccine can reduce the risk of death for some.

Profoundly misleading. Here is why: It is obviously true that there are some people - a very tiny number indeed based on what is known now - who will die from the vaccine who would never catch covid even if they were not vaccinated.

However, we have no way to identify that tiny population with the obvious exception of those with known allergies.

So the clear choice is to get the vaccine since, based on what we know now, the benefits of the vaccine vastly outweigh the risks.

 

[topher694]

But at a much, much lower rate. Now that you know this, if you ignore this in your arguments going forward, you will be called out on it.


Profoundly misleading. Here is why: It is obviously true that there are some people - a very tiny number indeed based on what is known now - who will die from the vaccine who would never catch covid even if they were not vaccinated.

However, we have no way to identify that tiny population!

So the clear choice is to get the vaccine since, based on what we know now, the benefits of the vaccine vastly outweigh the risks.

Dude, my children are are a part of that group and I will do everything in my power to protect them. Now that you know this, if you ignore that in any of your arguments going forward, you will be called out on it.

 

[expos4ever]

I have felt pressured by people like you - saying the exact things you are saying - to get my family vaccinated despite the fact that my children are all potentially at high risk.

Nice try. Where, exactly, did sfs contradict himself?

Did you deliberately edit out the part where sfs specified who it was intended to pressure: those who are choosing not to be vaccinated, those arguing that there is no obligation for those who can be vaccinate.

When that little morsel is properly accounted for, sfs's reasoning is entirely free of contradiction.

 

[expos4ever]

Look: let's clear something up: no one is saying that people with known allergies to vaccinations should be vaccinated.

 

[Halbhh]

But at a much, much lower rate. Now that you know this, if you ignore this in your arguments going forward, you will be called out on it.


Profoundly misleading. Here is why: It is obviously true that there are some people - a very tiny number indeed based on what is known now - who will die from the vaccine who would never catch covid even if they were not vaccinated.

However, we have no way to identify that tiny population!

So the clear choice is to get the vaccine since, based on what we know now, the benefits of the vaccine vastly outweigh the risks.

and @topher694

Good point. It's like seat belts -- on the whole they save a large number of lives, even though there will be rare situations where a seat belt might cause someone to die where they might have lived if not for that seat belt. On the whole, anyone is better off using a seat belt even though there are rare situations when it could backfire.

 

[topher694]

Nice try. Where, exactly, did sfs contradict himself?

Did you deliberately edit out the part where sfs specified who it was intended to pressure: those who are choosing not to be vaccinated, those arguing that there is no obligation for those who can be vaccinate.

When that little morsel is properly accounted for, sfs's reasoning is entirely free of contradiction.

he deliberately ignored (edited out) the part of my post that spoke to that and changed it's meaning. Therefore everything that followed was out of context.

 

[topher694]

Look: let's clear something up: no one is saying that people with known allergies to vaccinations should be vaccinated.

Let's clear something up: in spite of this statement you ARE pressuring people with allergies. That was my whole point in posting in the first place. I am telling you from first hand experience and all I have gotten in response is deflection and accusation. If you truly cared about the people you were talking about you might consider that HOW you say something is just as important as what you say.

 

[Halbhh]

Look: let's clear something up: no one is saying that people with known allergies to vaccinations should be vaccinated.

and @topher694

Yes.

Here's a leading new theory about how a small number of women under 50 (higher estrogen) could sometimes (rare) end up with an autoimmune blood clot problem from the Astra Zeneca or J&J vaccines causing (for some) antibodies that attached to blood platelet factor 4, causing clots:

The Blood-Clot Problem Is Multiplying

As you may know, these 2 vaccines were paused and research conducted at a rapid pace to figure out what causes those rare blood clot reactions.

So, there you can see the vaccine safety system working correctly -- people were monitored, and the (very rare) problem caught, and the associated vaccines paused, while continued investigation looked into the situation.

So, that's a picture of careful and well coordinated vaccine monitoring.

 

[topher694]

Perhaps this could help illustrate what I am talking about. More than once I have found myself in this position recently:

Someone begins to talk to my wife and I about the vaccine... IN FRONT OF OUR CHILDREN. My children are at high risk of a bad reaction to it. I don't know that for sure. But as of right now I can't know. It would be a huge risk. This person begins to use the exact same pressure tactics that I am seeing here... EXACT SAME... I can't explain to them (nor should I have to) my kids risk factors, because my kids are right there and I don't want to freak them (my kids) out. I have one child in particular if he knew it would cause him severe anxiety and nightmares. So I have to try to politely change the subject... they won't let it go. In the end I have to say something like, "we are NOT getting the vaccine, period!" they walk away mad and judgmental. Later that evening my wife and I have a discussion. "Maybe we should get the vaccine." "It would probably be fine." Only to remind ourselves that this is their lives we are talking about risking simply because someone was a know-it-all jerk. We talk about if we give it some time perhaps they will know more about the effects and we can make a more informed decision.... again this has happened multiple times recently, so don't tell me you are not pressuring people with allergies.

 

[renniks]

Did you hear about the peer-reviewed study done by Stanford University that demonstrates beyond a reasonable doubt that face masks have absolutely zero chance of preventing the spread of Covid-19? No? It was posted on the the National Center for Biotechnological Information government website. The NCBI is a branch of the National Institute for Health, so one would think such a study would be widely reported by mainstream media and embraced by the “science-loving” folks in Big Tech.

Just confirms what I've said all along.

 

[expos4ever]

Let's clear something up: in spite of this statement you ARE pressuring people with allergies.

Completely false - you are making this up.

 

[Jaedan]

Perhaps this could help illustrate what I am talking about. More than once I have found myself in this position recently:

Someone begins to talk to my wife and I about the vaccine... IN FRONT OF OUR CHILDREN. My children are at high risk of a bad reaction to it. I don't know that for sure. But as of right now I can't know. It would be a huge risk. This person begins to use the exact same pressure tactics that I am seeing here... EXACT SAME... I can't explain to them (nor should I have to) my kids risk factors, because my kids are right there and I don't want to freak them (my kids) out. I have one child in particular if he knew it would cause him severe anxiety and nightmares. So I have to try to politely change the subject... they won't let it go. In the end I have to say something like, "we are NOT getting the vaccine, period!" they walk away mad and judgmental. Later that evening my wife and I have a discussion. "Maybe we should get the vaccine." "It would probably be fine." Only to remind ourselves that this is their lives we are talking about risking simply because someone was a know-it-all jerk. We talk about if we give it some time perhaps they will know more about the effects and we can make a more informed decision.... again this has happened multiple times recently, so don't tell me you are not pressuring people with allergies.

You feel pressured by people who don't have an M.D.?

I use to have some severe medical issues. I have had a fair share of people telling me (or my parents for that matter) to do specific treatments, etc. I didn't really take it with a grain of salt, although, I did realize where their comments were coming from (they were trying to help me after all...)

You shouldn't really be pressured by any of the nonsense people are telling you. If you know that your children are allergic to specific things found in vaccines or etc, you have the right to not vaccinate them. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a lunatic.

 

[topher694]

Completely false - you are making this up.

So you are calling me a liar? That's your response to your own poor behavior. "I'm not wrong, he's a liar". Wow, you are the poster child for compassion for others aren't you? Did you even read post 171?

 

[KCfromNC]

Like seatbelts?

OB

And shooting guns in crowed spaces. Don't want to do it? Fine, but stop whining about my freedom to do so if I feel like it.

 

[topher694]

You feel pressured by people who don't have an M.D.?

I use to have some severe medical issues. I have had a fair share of people telling me (or my parents for that matter) to do specific treatments, etc. I didn't really take it with a grain of salt, although, I did realize where their comments were coming from (they were trying to help me after all...)

You shouldn't really be pressured by any of the nonsense people are telling you. If you know that your children are allergic to specific things found in vaccines or etc, you have the right to not vaccinate them. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a lunatic.

Oh, but others tell us it is our responsibility, even if we don't have a M.D., to pressure people into taking it because they "may be killing someone"

 

[KCfromNC]

You’re speaking out of both sides of your mouth. Vaccines either work or they don’t.

If this were actually a fact, why all the studies showing vaccine efficacy using numbers other than 0% or 100%?

 

[Larniavc]

I respect that you have the choice to make your own choices regarding your own health.

Your decision to wear a mask, get vaccinated, isolate, etc are yours to make. I totally respect you to make the decision that’s best for you.

This is simply you saying that you respect the poster’s decision not to put people at risk but the poster has you respect your decision to put people at risk.

Is that Christian?

 

[Halbhh]

Perhaps this could help illustrate what I am talking about. More than once I have found myself in this position recently:

Someone begins to talk to my wife and I about the vaccine... IN FRONT OF OUR CHILDREN. My children are at high risk of a bad reaction to it. I don't know that for sure. But as of right now I can't know. It would be a huge risk. This person begins to use the exact same pressure tactics that I am seeing here... EXACT SAME... I can't explain to them (nor should I have to) my kids risk factors, because my kids are right there and I don't want to freak them (my kids) out. I have one child in particular if he knew it would cause him severe anxiety and nightmares. So I have to try to politely change the subject... they won't let it go. In the end I have to say something like, "we are NOT getting the vaccine, period!" they walk away mad and judgmental. Later that evening my wife and I have a discussion. "Maybe we should get the vaccine." "It would probably be fine." Only to remind ourselves that this is their lives we are talking about risking simply because someone was a know-it-all jerk. We talk about if we give it some time perhaps they will know more about the effects and we can make a more informed decision.... again this has happened multiple times recently, so don't tell me you are not pressuring people with allergies.

Well, currently only people above age 16 can get the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines, only, and fortunately the problem with the other 2 vaccines that are paused was detected (see post 170 just above). If someone is pressuring you, I'm sorry to hear that! I planned myself to just wear a mask (to reduce the exposure amount to a low level, which actually matters very greatly if one is exposed!), and wait and wait, and had thought it would be well into May before I could even have a choice to get a vaccine, myself. And, I was just cautious and didn't want to get one early, and felt ok wearing a mask, which I had to do for years in various work.
(as it happened my wife is a 2nd tier essential worker that qualified recently, and signed me up, and at that point (late March) I finally felt the Pfizer vaccine had proven safe now, and went ahead, and it's fine. All the elderly in my church where I know whether they are getting the vaccine have gotten it also).

So, just waiting even longer and wearing a mask in all recommended situations (indoors with non-household members basically, or outdoors when less than 6 feet) is a way to be very cautious. Masks work to reduce the amount of virus one is exposed to, a reduction, and that is extremely helpful if exposed.

 

[sesquiterpene]

Perhaps this could help illustrate what I am talking about. More than once I have found myself in this position recently:

Someone begins to talk to my wife and I about the vaccine... IN FRONT OF OUR CHILDREN. My children are at high risk of a bad reaction to it. I don't know that for sure. But as of right now I can't know. It would be a huge risk. This person begins to use the exact same pressure tactics that I am seeing here... EXACT SAME... I can't explain to them (nor should I have to) my kids risk factors, because my kids are right there and I don't want to freak them (my kids) out. I have one child in particular if he knew it would cause him severe anxiety and nightmares. So I have to try to politely change the subject... they won't let it go. In the end I have to say something like, "we are NOT getting the vaccine, period!" they walk away mad and judgmental. Later that evening my wife and I have a discussion. "Maybe we should get the vaccine." "It would probably be fine." Only to remind ourselves that this is their lives we are talking about risking simply because someone was a know-it-all jerk. We talk about if we give it some time perhaps they will know more about the effects and we can make a more informed decision.... again this has happened multiple times recently, so don't tell me you are not pressuring people with allergies.

Just because you are angry at what someone else said, it's no reason to misrepresent what sfs is saying. And it looks like you later agreed that the person you are angry at might have been right - are you sure that that's not why you so angry?