Staff/Members discussion [report-free]

[~Anastasia~]

LOL! I saw that coming but I still liked it.

Staff discussions could be fine. I think some places like GT could use them more but it's true that the Orthodox mindset is different. It was quite frustrating to me for a while until I acclimated.

But I don't see a problem with them and they could be beneficial. I didn't comment much in this thread because I could usually see both points of view, but had nothing to add. I'm always interested in smoothing things over in any way I can though, because I greatly value TAW and the people here.

Ed,

I think that staff discussions, if only to better acquaint the staff with EO people ad how we think, would be helpful for all. Orthodox Christianity is a really different mindset, and I think that we could learn about from/about each other with continued dialogue.

That said, expecting change from Orthodox Christians is a futile endeavor. The old joke:
Q: How many Orthodox Christians does it take to change a light bulb?

A: What is this "change" thing that you speak of?

If you ponder on this, it will enlighten and amuse!

In Christ,
Antony

 

[rusmeister]

I think that inclusive statement was meant more of an olive branch than an insinuation that we should accept doctrinal pluralism.

Case in point - I think that YEC is not Orthodox. Should I force the issue? Should I say that YEC is the product of demonic protestant theology that has superimposed an atheistic and materialistic worldview onto scripture thus perverting its meaning. In general I choose not to make such accusations, but according to your ideals I may be accepting pluralism into TAW and even into the faith. In all honesty, I do find it very troubling for many reason, but at the same time I don't really an upside to forcing the issue here.

I get this. Only I think the extreme cut-and dried examples, like the ones Nameless Hero gave, do not speak to the actual issue. I think that the Church will eventually have to rule on that issue and a consensus will form, and I don't think modern science, a passing thing, is going to be a winner in that consensus.
But because there is no consensus yet, no reasonable person is saying that anyone holding a dissenting view is separating themselves from the Church.

I think that the issue of authority is the ultimate, indeed, only issue. If the authority interpreting everything (including Scripture) is me, myself and I, then our Faith is vain. If nothing can correct me when I am convinced of something, yet wrong about it, then speaking of the Church is meaningless. (Therefore, obviously, the authority to correct me exists.)

 

[Kristos]

I get this. Only I think the extreme cut-and dried examples, like the ones Nameless Hero gave, do not speak to the actual issue. I think that the Church will eventually have to rule on that issue and a consensus will form, and I don't think modern science, a passing thing, is going to be a winner in that consensus.
But because there is no consensus yet, no reasonable person is saying that anyone holding a dissenting view is separating themselves from the Church.

I think that the issue of authority is the ultimate, indeed, only issue. If the authority interpreting everything (including Scripture) is me, myself and I, then our Faith is vain. If nothing can correct me when I am convinced of something, yet wrong about it, then speaking of the Church is meaningless. (Therefore, obviously, the authority to correct me exists.)

I don't disagree with this - however, who here is going to speak for the Church? I doubt any ecclesiastical authority would be interested in moderating this forum - so it seems that we are more or less left to moderate ourselves.

 

[Dorothea]

Well, I decided to peek in the GT forum to see if it's worse than the last time I checked in months or a year ago. Well, observing this conversation and how we are supposed to post with regards to non Christians. I find it ironic and WRONG that we are told this, but posts such as the one I have linked allow fellow Christians to call us Orthodox idol worshippers is considered fine. If the moderators were being fair, those types of posts would be banned and not permitted in ANY forum. So, for me, what I see is be polite and tolerant of those from a non Christian religion, which I get, but at the same time, it's fair game on Orthodox Christians to slander them and say such stuff. This is why I don't post in GT anymore. Imo, it's biased. Protestants can say whatever they want to EOs and RCC. That's UNACCEPTABLE. If you want to improve your site, get rid of the bias, especially toward other Christian groups. This should be more important than non Christian groups.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7855427/

 

[Tallguy88]

Well, I decided to peek in the GT forum to see if it's worse than the last time I checked in months or a year ago. Well, observing this conversation and how we are supposed to post with regards to non Christians. I find it ironic and WRONG that we are told this, but posts such as the one I have linked allow fellow Christians to call us Orthodox idol worshippers is considered fine. If the moderators were being fair, those types of posts would be banned and not permitted in ANY forum. So, for me, what I see is be polite and tolerant of those from a non Christian religion, which I get, but at the same time, it's fair game on Orthodox Christians to slander them and say such stuff. This is why I don't post in GT anymore. Imo, it's biased. Protestants can say whatever they want to EOs and RCC. That's UNACCEPTABLE. If you want to improve your site, get rid of the bias, especially toward other Christian groups. This should be more important than non Christian groups.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7855427/

I am the Supervisor over GT. Do you really think I am biased against Catholics and Orthodox? I've put a lot of work into making GT a more respectful forum, but I can't (and won't) shut down topics just because they challenge my own theological beliefs.

You should report that post if you feel it is a violation. I was on the fence about it, but since I didn't see him directly saying icon veneration equal idolatry I didn't report it. If I missed it, please report the post and we will handle it.

 

[Antony in Tx]

Well, I decided to peek in the GT forum to see if it's worse than the last time I checked in months or a year ago. Well, observing this conversation and how we are supposed to post with regards to non Christians. I find it ironic and WRONG that we are told this, but posts such as the one I have linked allow fellow Christians to call us Orthodox idol worshippers is considered fine. If the moderators were being fair, those types of posts would be banned and not permitted in ANY forum. So, for me, what I see is be polite and tolerant of those from a non Christian religion, which I get, but at the same time, it's fair game on Orthodox Christians to slander them and say such stuff. This is why I don't post in GT anymore. Imo, it's biased. Protestants can say whatever they want to EOs and RCC. That's UNACCEPTABLE. If you want to improve your site, get rid of the bias, especially toward other Christian groups. This should be more important than non Christian groups.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7855427/

Dot,

That is exactly why I don't venture out of TAW. As to being called names, I am relatively impervious to things like that. I consider persecution by slander to be part of the price of doing business as a Christian. I do agree that it feels very much like a double standard, and I wonder if the CF advisors really comprehend where we are coming from on that, because they live in the world where we OC's are the outsiders. Most Protestants, especially in the US west of the Mississipi have never even heard of the EOC, and have no idea who or what we are and how our existence relates to where their churches came from. It's like a young adolescent mocking the old men playing checkers in the park who speak a foreign tongue, not realizing that one of them is their Great Grandfather who they have never met.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Well, I decided to peek in the GT forum to see if it's worse than the last time I checked in months or a year ago. Well, observing this conversation and how we are supposed to post with regards to non Christians. I find it ironic and WRONG that we are told this, but posts such as the one I have linked allow fellow Christians to call us Orthodox idol worshippers is considered fine. If the moderators were being fair, those types of posts would be banned and not permitted in ANY forum. So, for me, what I see is be polite and tolerant of those from a non Christian religion, which I get, but at the same time, it's fair game on Orthodox Christians to slander them and say such stuff. This is why I don't post in GT anymore. Imo, it's biased. Protestants can say whatever they want to EOs and RCC. That's UNACCEPTABLE. If you want to improve your site, get rid of the bias, especially toward other Christian groups. This should be more important than non Christian groups.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7855427/

Oh yes. That lovely thread. I've been in it the whole time.

I do think the title and a few things said there are at least "borderline". But I'm not blaming Tallguy for failing to moderate.

The impression I get from GT is that anyone is free to slam "the other side" a bit. But how that plays out is that Orthodox, Catholic, etc. rarely go out of their way to insult or slam others. So it tends to be a bit one-sided. I heard it used to be different - the opposite in fact. So I searched the archives and cringed at the posts Catholics made against Protestants back then.

Truly, I think it ought not to be. But unless the "rules" are set up that way, some people are going to do it.

I do respect the preference of many to avoid GT for that reason. But it can lead to a lot of "squeaky wheels" giving out wrong information. So I'm thankful for the ones willing to take it on. Otherwise I would never have found the Orthodox Church. But I have had to back away myself, for my own spiritual health. Much of what I have to ask forgiveness for is a direct result of at least the thoughts I have when I'm in GT, even if I don't generally post them.

 

[Dorothea]

I am the Supervisor over GT. Do you really think I am biased against Catholics and Orthodox? I've put a lot of work into making GT a more respectful forum, but I can't (and won't) shut down topics just because they challenge my own theological beliefs.

You should report that post if you feel it is a violation. I was on the fence about it, but since I didn't see him directly saying icon veneration equal idolatry I didn't report it. If I missed it, please report the post and we will handle it.

Sorry for being heated in my initial post. I saw that and just really got ticked. I can't believe that stuff is still being spouted in there. And yes, we have been called idol worshippers in the past in GT, and I don't recall the thread being shut down.

I don't think you're biased, Tallguy. I get the impression when I would post in there a few years ago that it was.

I don't really post in there anymore because I don't have the stomach for those insults. I got tired of the battering a couple of years ago, and for the sake of my soul and sanity, I avoid it.

 

[Dorothea]

Dot,

That is exactly why I don't venture out of TAW. As to being called names, I am relatively impervious to things like that. I consider persecution by slander to be part of the price of doing business as a Christian. I do agree that it feels very much like a double standard, and I wonder if the CF advisors really comprehend where we are coming from on that, because they live in the world where we OC's are the outsiders. Most Protestants, especially in the US west of the Mississipi have never even heard of the EOC, and have no idea who or what we are and how our existence relates to where their churches came from. It's like a young adolescent mocking the old men playing checkers in the park who speak a foreign tongue, not realizing that one of them is their Great Grandfather who they have never met.

Hi, Antony. Yes, I agree. Well, I understand many Protestant have not heard of the EOC and are ignorant to its beliefs. I have no problem with questions and such done in a respectful manner, but I really feel that GT is not about that, but more about getting the one up on the other through throwing subtle jabs and insults at each other and trying to prove themselves right. It's a losing battle, imo.

 

[Dorothea]

Oh yes. That lovely thread. I've been in it the whole time.

I do think the title and a few things said there are at least "borderline". But I'm not blaming Tallguy for failing to moderate.

The impression I get from GT is that anyone is free to slam "the other side" a bit. But how that plays out is that Orthodox, Catholic, etc. rarely go out of their way to insult or slam others. So it tends to be a bit one-sided. I heard it used to be different - the opposite in fact. So I searched the archives and cringed at the posts Catholics made against Protestants back then.

Truly, I think it ought not to be. But unless the "rules" are set up that way, some people are going to do it.

I do respect the preference of many to avoid GT for that reason. But it can lead to a lot of "squeaky wheels" giving out wrong information. So I'm thankful for the ones willing to take it on. Otherwise I would never have found the Orthodox Church. But I have had to back away myself, for my own spiritual health. Much of what I have to ask forgiveness for is a direct result of at least the thoughts I have when I'm in GT, even if I don't generally post them.

Yes, I understand completely. I don't blame Tallguy, and I apologized if it sounded like that. That was me typing in frustration. In any case, GT isn't healthy for me, so I stay out of there. I only looked in there because Edial said they were working on fixing stuff up. Guess that doesn't happen til after the new year, and I don't know if that includes GT.

PS: When I first went into GT back in 2007, it was like a slap in the face and total attack on my faith, for which I was just learning more and getting more involved in. I took things too personally and it took me a couple years to harden up. I learned a lot from it, especially more about my own faith and how to defend it, and that is the upside of going through that. Now, I don't have any desire to go through that anymore.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Yes, I understand completely. I don't blame Tallguy, and I apologized if it sounded like that. That was me typing in frustration. In any case, GT isn't healthy for me, so I stay out of there. I only looked in there because Edial said they were working on fixing stuff up. Guess that doesn't happen til after the new year, and I don't know if that includes GT.

PS: When I first went into GT back in 2007, it was like a slap in the face and total attack on my faith, for which I was just learning more and getting more involved in. I took things too personally and it took me a couple years to harden up. I learned a lot from it, especially more about my own faith and how to defend it, and that is the upside of going through that. Now, I don't have any desire to go through that anymore.

I completely understand. It has served to slap me just a little and is teaching me about how to respond to people. I think life is full of lessons of many kinds, and God will use many circumstances to grow us. I pray it helps me develop a compassion for those who lack understanding of what I am so thankful to be learning and experiencing.

But I admit that a couple of personalities are difficult to keep that mindset for. And so I repent. Repeatedly. It really shows me things in myself that still need work.

But as I said, I have to pull back myself. It's a delicate balance. And I wouldn't be surprised if at any time I would have to stop posting there, or risk becoming argumentative or hardened in some way. God grant me the thump in the head when/if that time comes to recognize and obey.

As I said, I respect anyone's decision to do what is best for themselves spiritually. We can pray for others, we can try to speak the Truth in love. But we can't drag anyone into what they don't want. I just read a quote from a Saint the other day - something about taking care not to lose yourself while trying to save others. It isn't us that does the "saving" anyway, but we ARE responsible for our own selves.

God bless you, dear sister.

 

[Tallguy88]

Yes, I understand completely. I don't blame Tallguy, and I apologized if it sounded like that. That was me typing in frustration. In any case, GT isn't healthy for me, so I stay out of there. I only looked in there because Edial said they were working on fixing stuff up. Guess that doesn't happen til after the new year, and I don't know if that includes GT.

PS: When I first went into GT back in 2007, it was like a slap in the face and total attack on my faith, for which I was just learning more and getting more involved in. I took things too personally and it took me a couple years to harden up. I learned a lot from it, especially more about my own faith and how to defend it, and that is the upside of going through that. Now, I don't have any desire to go through that anymore.

Don't worry about it. I get plenty frustrated with GT myself. I was just letting you know we do try to keep things civil in there. It's specifically against the statement of purpose of that forum to call someone an idolator. I just haven't seen that poster say that in that thread. If he did, and I missed it, please report it.

 

[Dorothea]

I completely understand. It has served to slap me just a little and is teaching me about how to respond to people. I think life is full of lessons of many kinds, and God will use many circumstances to grow us. I pray it helps me develop a compassion for those who lack understanding of what I am so thankful to be learning and experiencing.

But I admit that a couple of personalities are difficult to keep that mindset for. And so I repent. Repeatedly. It really shows me things in myself that still need work.

But as I said, I have to pull back myself. It's a delicate balance. And I wouldn't be surprised if at any time I would have to stop posting there, or risk becoming argumentative or hardened in some way. God grant me the thump in the head when/if that time comes to recognize and obey.

As I said, I respect anyone's decision to do what is best for themselves spiritually. We can pray for others, we can try to speak the Truth in love. But we can't drag anyone into what they don't want. I just read a quote from a Saint the other day - something about taking care not to lose yourself while trying to save others. It isn't us that does the "saving" anyway, but we ARE responsible for our own selves.

God bless you, dear sister.

Thanks, Kylissa. God bless you, too. I am with you in feeling the way you have felt in there, but for me, that was a while ago. I don't have the tolerance or patience or desire to discuss or debate anymore. I'm just fighting to survive my own faith and spiritual struggles the past year and half.

 

[Dorothea]

Don't worry about it. I get plenty frustrated with GT myself. I was just letting you know we do try to keep things civil in there. It's specifically against the statement of purpose of that forum to call someone an idolator. I just haven't seen that poster say that in that thread. If he did, and I missed it, please report it.

Appreciate your comments, Tallguy.

I will have to leave that to those who are engaged in that thread and in GT regularly to report if need be done. But I will say the title alone of that thread I linked is insulting and should have never been able continue.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Thanks, Kylissa. God bless you, too. I am with you in feeling the way you have felt in there, but for me, that was a while ago. I don't have the tolerance or patience or desire to discuss or debate anymore. I'm just fighting to survive my own faith and spiritual struggles the past year and half.

I sometimes wonder if "debate" is even what we are supposed to be doing. Maybe it's not necessarily bad. The Holy Fathers certainly did at times. But then ... I am certainly not them!

My prayers are with you, dear sister.

 

[Dorothea]

I sometimes wonder if "debate" is even what we are supposed to be doing. Maybe it's not necessarily bad. The Holy Fathers certainly did at times. But then ... I am certainly not them!

My prayers are with you, dear sister.

Thanks very much.

 

[rusmeister]

A side note for non-Orthodox - probably a majority of native English-speaking Orthodox are former Protestants - we know the Protestant side very well. They don't, as a rule, know our side.

 

[Edial]

I was just giving examples of what should/shouldn't be allowed.

And you gave very good examples of proper posting style.

 

[Edial]

Ed,

I think that staff discussions, if only to better acquaint the staff with EO people ad how we think, would be helpful for all. Orthodox Christianity is a really different mindset, and I think that we could learn about from/about each other with continued dialogue.

That said, expecting change from Orthodox Christians is a futile endeavor. The old joke:
Q: How many Orthodox Christians does it take to change a light bulb?

A: What is this "change" thing that you speak of?

If you ponder on this, it will enlighten and amuse!

In Christ,
Antony

 

[Edial]

Well, I decided to peek in the GT forum to see if it's worse than the last time I checked in months or a year ago. Well, observing this conversation and how we are supposed to post with regards to non Christians. I find it ironic and WRONG that we are told this, but posts such as the one I have linked allow fellow Christians to call us Orthodox idol worshippers is considered fine. If the moderators were being fair, those types of posts would be banned and not permitted in ANY forum. So, for me, what I see is be polite and tolerant of those from a non Christian religion, which I get, but at the same time, it's fair game on Orthodox Christians to slander them and say such stuff. This is why I don't post in GT anymore. Imo, it's biased. Protestants can say whatever they want to EOs and RCC. That's UNACCEPTABLE. If you want to improve your site, get rid of the bias, especially toward other Christian groups. This should be more important than non Christian groups.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7855427/

We are addressing such issues by making certain rules reflect that what is in violation.
Here are the rules for GT ...
The last part lists specific words other Christians should not be identified as.
It is up to other posters to report such posts and moderation team would handle it.

Guidelines for Posting in General Theology

• Always remember that you are first and foremost brothers and sisters in Christ, regardless of your theological differences and viewpoints.
• Do not identify a group of members or a theological viewpoint with a derogatory or inflammatory label.
• NT writers' teachings do not contradict each other or the teachings of Christ. (2 Peter 3:15,16)
• Do not teach or promote sinless perfectionism.
• It is considered off topic to challenge Paul's place as an Apostle.
• When speaking about well-known, revered and highly regarded past or present leaders, theologians, saints (living or deceased) of other Nicene Christian denominations, please show a measure of respect. These public religious figures are respected by the members who belong to those denominations. Please avoid using inflammatory words or phrases in reference to these public religious figures.
• It is permissible to discuss biblical/historical topics that may include inflammatory words or phrases as long as the usage of these words does not specifically flame any CF recognized Nicene group or denomination or insinuate that they are not Christians. Please use these words and phrases with caution.
• Examples of inflammatory words/phrases (including but not limited to): idolaters, false/different/other gospel, false prophet, false doctrine, heretics, blasphemers, evil, sheep in wolves clothing, different God, antichrists, Antichrist, cannibalism/cannibal (concerning Eucharist), Judaizer
• http://www.christianforums.com/t7780354/