St. Patrick kept the 7th Day Sabbath!

[3 Angels Messages]

• love
• joy
• peace
• longsuffering
• gentleness
• goodness
• faith
• meekness
• temperance

Those are the "fruits of the Spirit" [as listed in Galatians 5:22-23;p].

Also, if anyone manifested those "fruits" [that Paul wrote about] it was Moses.

(Now the man Moses [was] very meek, above all the men which [were] upon the face of the earth.) Numbers 12:3

By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; Hebrews 11:24

And Moses verily [was] faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after; Hebrews 3:5

And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. Exodus 20:6

He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. Matthew 19:18

...did he also not exercise patience, temperance, goodness, peace, joy, etc in his life, even toward those people Israel? did he not pray for them and care for them? so much so that he placed his own existence and eternal life on the line:

Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. Exodus 32:32

Therefore he said that he would destroy them, had not Moses his chosen stood before him in the breach, to turn away his wrath, lest he should destroy [them]. Psalms 106:23

... did he not love his sister?:

And Moses cried unto the LORD, saying, Heal her now, O God, I beseech thee. Numbers 12:13

...was not Moses filled with joy and even wrote a song unto the Lord for the victory:

Then sang Moses and the children of Israel this song unto the LORD, and spake, saying, I will sing unto the LORD, for he hath triumphed gloriously: the horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea. Exodus 15:1 [see also Deuteronomy 31:22,30, 32:44; Revelation 15:3]

 

[listed]

Those are the "fruits of the Spirit" [as listed in Galatians 5:22-23;p].

Also, if anyone manifested those "fruits" [that Paul wrote about] it was Moses.

(Now the man Moses [was] very meek, above all the men which [were] upon the face of the earth.) Numbers 12:3

By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; Hebrews 11:24

And Moses verily [was] faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after; Hebrews 3:5

And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. Exodus 20:6

He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. Matthew 19:18

...did he also not exercise patience, temperance, goodness, peace, joy, etc in his life, even toward those people Israel? did he not pray for them and care for them? so much so that he placed his own existence and eternal life on the line:

Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. Exodus 32:32

Therefore he said that he would destroy them, had not Moses his chosen stood before him in the breach, to turn away his wrath, lest he should destroy [them]. Psalms 106:23

... did he not love his sister?:

And Moses cried unto the LORD, saying, Heal her now, O God, I beseech thee. Numbers 12:13

...was not Moses filled with joy and even wrote a song unto the Lord for the victory:

Then sang Moses and the children of Israel this song unto the LORD, and spake, saying, I will sing unto the LORD, for he hath triumphed gloriously: the horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea. Exodus 15:1 [see also Deuteronomy 31:22,30, 32:44; Revelation 15:3]

Oh you want something to argue about or so you can say I observe the law. So very sorry, no will do.

 

[listed]

Listed,

Please consider the whole context of Psalms 119:

ALEPH. Blessed [are] the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD. Psalms 119:1

And just one verse previous to Psalms 119:45 is vs 44:

So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever. Psalms 119:44

Therefore contextually speaking, "The Law of the LORD" is the "law of Liberty" that James [Jacob] cites:

And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts. Psalms 119:45

See James [Jacob]:

But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein], he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. James 1:25

So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. James 2:12

In fact, in the Book of James [Jacob] itself, he clearly identifies aspects of the Ten Commandments when speaking of this "law of liberty". Please let me know if you are interested in seeing this. Thank you.

Oh pleeeaaassseeegimme a break and not my arm. while you're givving me that break don't try pullim my leg either. James focus isn't the law in chapter 2. It is mentioned in passing for illustration purposes. And James isn't talking about the yoke of bondage or ministration of death either.

 

[listed]

Please restate for the benefit of all in regards to the first, thank you.

As to the second, what was Her reason for telling others that they needed a Saviour? Why did she need the Saviour, and Salvation from what?

She did tell me why I needed one. I'm the kind of person that didn't need to know why at that time in my life. I trusted adults in authority positions. Very uncommon these days of children. I did know why she needed a Saviour either. I don't recall it being part of the cobnversation. Are there blessings in becoming a Christian as a child? I sure think so, big time. Jesus said you must become that way.

 

[3 Angels Messages]

Oh you want something to argue about or so you can say I observe the law. So very sorry, no will do.

Is there a "law" in the NT? Are there "commandments" in the NT?

 

[3 Angels Messages]

...the yoke of bondage ...

So you are saying that the Ten Commandments are "the yoke of bondage"?

 

[3 Angels Messages]

She did tell me why I needed one. I'm the kind of person that didn't need to know why at that time in my life. I trusted adults in authority positions. Very uncommon these days of children. I did know why she needed a Saviour either. I don't recall it being part of the cobnversation. Are there blessings in becoming a Christian as a child? I sure think so, big time. Jesus said you must become that way.

So, a person [this woman mentioned] tells you that you need a Saviour but not the reason for it ["at that time in your life"], and you did not find out why she said she also needed one [for you "trusted adults in authority positions"]?

Did you ever find out why she and you needed the Saviour, and if so, what was that reason?

 

[TruthWave7]

Oh pleeeaaassseeegimme a break and not my arm. while you're givving me that break don't try pullim my leg either. James focus isn't the law in chapter 2. It is mentioned in passing for illustration purposes. And James isn't talking about the yoke of bondage or ministration of death either.

James is clearly talking about the 10 Commandments, note how he specifically quotes a number of the 10 Commandments, and note also how he calls it the "royal law", something that James thinks is "royal" in the NC, you should look upon as being "royal" as well, but you chose to deride the "royal law" that James, a NC Christian exalts! Moreover, James points out: "For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all." And that would then including keeping the 7th day Sabbath which you refuse to do, therefore you are guilty before God for willfully refusing to obey the Sabbath Commandment.

James 2:8-11

8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,”[a] you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,”[b] also said, “Do not murder.”[c] Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

 

[Harry3142]

Is there a "law" in the NT? Are there "commandments" in the NT?

So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. (Galatians 5:16-26,NIV)

"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." (The Gospel of St. Matthew 25:31-46,NIV)

You can go through all the legalism that you can stomach, but without 'the fruit of the Spirit' as the impetus for all that you say and do, and without practical compassion for the needs of those around you, you have achieved nothing.

 

[TruthWave7]

So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. (Galatians 5:16-26,NIV)

"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." (The Gospel of St. Matthew 25:31-46,NIV)

You can go through all the legalism that you can stomach, but without 'the fruit of the Spirit' as the impetus for all that you say and do, and without practical compassion for the needs of those around you, you have achieved nothing.

The point that SDAs are making is that commandment keeping must be linked with compassion and the sharing of the Gospel. Most denominations want to ignore the Sabbath which is one of 10 Commandments, and yet most profess to keep ALL 10 Commandments!

 

[listed]

So, a person [this woman mentioned] tells you that you need a Saviour but not the reason for it ["at that time in your life"], and you did not find out why she said she also needed one [for you "trusted adults in authority positions"]?

Did you ever find out why she and you needed the Saviour, and if so, what was that reason?

Yep. My relationship to and with God.

 

[Harry3142]

The point that SDAs are making is that commandment keeping must be linked with compassion and the sharing of the Gospel. Most denominations want to ignore the Sabbath which is one of 10 Commandments, and yet most profess to keep ALL 10 Commandments!

When our neighbor 'sicced' her SDA minister on my wife and myself circa 1970, the first thing that he insisted on was that we must accept The Creation Story as a literal event which occurred in six, 24-hour days. When I told him that I refused to accept the story in that mode, he promptly left.

This is what the fourth commandment is attached to, namely, a literal acceptance of creation as having occurred in six, 24-hour days. But the purpose of The Creation Story was never to promote that. Instead, it was a demythologization of a creation epic which Moses' people were all too familiar with. And that was a creation epic linked to Egypt and its pantheon of gods and goddesses:

www.theologywebsite.com/etext/egypt/creation.shtml

Do you see the similarities? Their creation epic also took exactly six days. But unlike The Creation Story (Genesis 1:1-2:3), they used the first five days to create other gods and goddesses, and then created mankind and all the other animals on the sixth day almost as an afterthought.

So what was the real purpose of The Creation Story as found in Genesis? It was a rebuttal of the egyptian creation epic which the readers of Genesis already knew. The sun, moon and stars were nothing more than objects in the sky which gave us light, rather than their being gods and goddesses. The animals around us were nothing more than fellow creatures, rather than their being representations of other gods and goddesses (there were over 40 gods and goddesses in their pantheon, each of whom were represented by an animal or a celestial object).

By the time the reader got to Genesis 2:3, the only deity that was still to be recognized as truly divine was a deity that also could never be sculpted in stone or painted on a wall. And the Sabbath was a means of re-enforcing this rebuttal. So long as the people observed it, they continued to acknowledge that all that is visible and invisible was created by one Being, rather than a pantheon of beings.

Even the way it is written is to be seen as a re-enforcement of their time in Egypt, and that one Being (God) got them out of the land of many beings (Egypt's idols):

Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy as the Lord your God has commanded you. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your ox, your donkey, or any of your animals, nor the alien within your gates, so that your manservant and maidservant may rest, as you do. Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day. (Deuteronomy 5:12-15,NIV)

Alone of all the commandments, this commandment is not repeated in the New Testament. And why not? The reason for it to exist in the first place was to serve as a reminder to the people that one Deity had created all that exists, rather than its being the product of many deities, as it is in the egyptian creation epic. The other nine commandments are necessary for all, but the fourth commandment had served its purpose. The egyptian creation epic, which it had helped to counter, was nothing more than a part of their ancient history.

BTW: I'm familiar with the SDA's attempt to convince others that the Christian church began at Mt. Sinai with Moses, rather than at Jerusalem with the apostles of Christ. Personally, I consider that abuse of Scripture as borderline blasphemy.

 

[TruthWave7]

When our neighbor 'sicced' her SDA minister on my wife and myself circa 1970, the first thing that he insisted on was that we must accept The Creation Story as a literal event which occurred in six, 24-hour days. When I told him that I refused to accept the story in that mode, he promptly left.

This is what the fourth commandment is attached to, namely, a literal acceptance of creation as having occurred in six, 24-hour days. But the purpose of The Creation Story was never to promote that. Instead, it was a demythologization of a creation epic which Moses' people were all too familiar with. And that was a creation epic linked to Egypt and its pantheon of gods and goddesses:

www.theologywebsite.com/etext/egypt/creation.shtml

Do you see the similarities? Their creation epic also took exactly six days. But unlike The Creation Story (Genesis 1:1-2:3), they used the first five days to create other gods and goddesses, and then created mankind and all the other animals on the sixth day almost as an afterthought.

So what was the real purpose of The Creation Story as found in Genesis? It was a rebuttal of the egyptian creation epic which the readers of Genesis already knew. The sun, moon and stars were nothing more than objects in the sky which gave us light, rather than their being gods and goddesses. The animals around us were nothing more than fellow creatures, rather than their being representations of other gods and goddesses (there were over 40 gods and goddesses in their pantheon, each of whom were represented by an animal or a celestial object).

By the time the reader got to Genesis 2:3, the only deity that was still to be recognized as truly divine was a deity that also could never be sculpted in stone or painted on a wall. And the Sabbath was a means of re-enforcing this rebuttal. So long as the people observed it, they continued to acknowledge that all that is visible and invisible was created by one Being, rather than a pantheon of beings.

Even the way it is written is to be seen as a re-enforcement of their time in Egypt, and that one Being (God) got them out of the land of many beings (Egypt's idols):

Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy as the Lord your God has commanded you. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your ox, your donkey, or any of your animals, nor the alien within your gates, so that your manservant and maidservant may rest, as you do. Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day. (Deuteronomy 5:12-15,NIV)

Alone of all the commandments, this commandment is not repeated in the New Testament. And why not? The reason for it to exist in the first place was to serve as a reminder to the people that one Deity had created all that exists, rather than its being the product of many deities, as it is in the egyptian creation epic. The other nine commandments are necessary for all, but the fourth commandment had served its purpose. The egyptian creation epic, which it had helped to counter, was nothing more than a part of their ancient history.

BTW: I'm familiar with the SDA's attempt to convince others that the Christian church began at Mt. Sinai with Moses, rather than at Jerusalem with the apostles of Christ. Personally, I consider that abuse of Scripture as borderline blasphemy.

How can you profess to be a Christian and not believe in the divine inspiration of the Scriptures! The Bible says in II Timothy 3:16:

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."

Therefore, that would include the book of Genesis as well. The Sabbath created by God in Genesis 2, not by Moses, and it is the 4th Commandment of the 10, who gave you the authority to dismiss something that was written by the finger of God! That is the height of arrogance and the most flagrant of rebellion against God!

 

[listed]

How can you profess to be a Christian and not believe in the divine inspiration of the Scriptures! The Bible says in II Timothy 3:16:

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."

Therefore, that would include the book of Genesis as well. The Sabbath created by God in Genesis 2, not by Moses, and it is the 4th Commandment of the 10, who gave to the authority to dismiss something that was written by the finger of God! That is the height of arrogance and the most flagrant of rebellion against God!

I wonder why you don't. Would you like me to illustrate by quoting a few?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by TruthWave7 The point that SDAs are making is that commandment keeping must be linked with compassion and the sharing of the Gospel. Most denominations want to ignore the Sabbath which is one of 10 Commandments, and yet most profess to keep ALL 10 Commandments!

Yes, we are aware of the sabbatarian SDAs' position on that

http://www.christianforums.com/t7620348-101/#post59427767
What Commandment did God say to; "Remember", that the world wants to forget?

It is a strange thing that 99% of Christendom profess to love Jesus, and yet, they transgress the 4th Commandment every time they forget to keep the Sabbath day holy week after week, year after year. Those same 99%, when questioned regarding the other nine commandments will most likely say that they keep them, and that all people should obey them as well, because its wrong to steal, commit adultery, use the Lord's name in vain, murder, lie, dishonor your father or mother, covet, or worship graven images of God, or worship any other gods, other than God. Since God himself wrote all of these Commandments with His own finger, how is it that men and women who profess to be Christians, ignore one of the 10?

 

[TruthWave7]

Yes, we are aware of the sabbatarian SDAs' position on that issue.

What is your position on this issue? Do you keep the 7th day holy?

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Mod Hat

Thread closed at the request of the original poster.

Mark
Staff Supervisor.