St. Patrick kept the 7th Day Sabbath!

[listed]

This is the problem, many Christians today keep telling us that we now keep the "law of the spirit", yet they always fail to give us examples of what this means. Is it nothing more than a mere mental ascent to the truth?

No it isn't.

18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Gal 5

 

[Lysimachus]

Jesus obeyed His Father's commandments as John 15:10 states. Jesus didn't issue the ten commandments. We are pretty sure that Jesus didn't lie, covent, commit adultery, murder, obeyed His earthly parents and His Father, kept the Sabbath of the Lord His God. Now which commandments are His Father's. I need to see that Jesus kept something else besides the law, if you insist that Jesus issed the ten commandments.

So when Jesus said He kept His father's commandments, He wasn't including the Ten?

Do you have proof for this?

When Jesus spoke to the Rich Young Ruler for the first time in Matthew 19:19,19; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20, are you trying to tell me that Jesus had no thought of the Ten Commandments whatsoever?

Did the Rich Young Ruler know that Jesus had no thought to the Ten Commandments in mind? Why didn't Jesus correct him when the young Ruler admitted to keeping them his whole life? From where did the Rich Young Ruler learn these commandments?

 

[Lysimachus]

No it isn't.

18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Gal 5

Those who break the commandments are under the law. Those who are led by the Spirit are above the law, because their lives are living in harmony with its precepts.

Those who are in the Spirit live in harmony with God's Holy Precepts.

 

[3 Angels Messages]

...if you insist that Jesus issed the ten commandments.

John 1:1-3, speaking of the Word, Christ Jesus...

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:3

And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them. Exodus 24:12

"...two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God..." Exodus 31:18;p

"...ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone." Deuteronomy 4:13;p

These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me. Deuteronomy 5:22

"...the LORD delivered unto me two tables of stone written with the finger of God..." Deuteronomy 9:10;p


Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed [difference] between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them. Ezekiel 22:26

"...The sabbath was made..."

 

[listed]

So when Jesus said He kept His father's commandments, He wasn't including the Ten?

Do you have proof for this?

When Jesus spoke to the Rich Young Ruler for the first time in Matthew 19:19,19; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20, are you trying to tell me that Jesus had no thought of the Ten Commandments whatsoever?

Did the Rich Young Ruler know that Jesus had no thought to the Ten Commandments in mind? Why didn't Jesus correct him when the young Ruler admitted to keeping them his whole life? From where did the Rich Young Ruler learn these commandments?

I sure do but you refuse to listen as ordered by EGW.

Your idea derived from the story of the rich young rules pits Jesus against Himself as a double minded babbling idiot. I've already posted the Scriptures about this argument. You simply choose to ignore them. I would say your argument indicates God (Jesus) doesn't have a clue what He is doing and discounts the mind He gave mankind, however you wish to say it. I say God the Father is the Creator and you say that Jesus is the Creator.

Jesus is obliging the man with the answer he wishes to hear. IOW Jesus is giving a fool's answer to a fool's question and demand. If one could possess eternal life by keeping the commandments, why oh why didn't he leave with a joyful heart. Jesus didn't contradict the man's testimony. What did Jesus say in John chapters 3, 10 and 14 about the subject? Not a single thing about the law. Don't you smell a dead stinking fish? I do?

 

[listed]

Those who break the commandments are under the law. Those who are led by the Spirit are above the law, because their lives are living in harmony with its precepts.

Those who are in the Spirit live in harmony with God's Holy Precepts.

Those who follow the leading of the Spirit aren't under (subject or obligated to) the law according to my verse. It is true that one who follows the leading of the Spirit is in harmony with God's laws placed in one's heart. These laws of God aren't the covenant or part of the covenant issued at Sinai per Jer 31::31-33. I don't care how you twist it.

 

[listed]

John 1:1-3, speaking of the Word, Christ Jesus...

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:3

And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them. Exodus 24:12

"...two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God..." Exodus 31:18;p

"...ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone." Deuteronomy 4:13;p

These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me. Deuteronomy 5:22

"...the LORD delivered unto me two tables of stone written with the finger of God..." Deuteronomy 9:10;p


Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed [difference] between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them. Ezekiel 22:26

"...The sabbath was made..."

You need to read Revalation very carefully say about chapters 4 and 5 on the subject of creation. Who sat on the throne? Who received the book from Him that sat upon the Throne? Why did they have to look for someone worthy to open the book?

 

[3 Angels Messages]

...the story of the rich young rule[r]...

Jesus is obliging the man with the answer he wishes to hear. IOW Jesus is giving a fool's answer to a fool's question and demand. If one could possess eternal life by keeping the commandments, why oh why didn't he leave with a joyful heart. Jesus didn't contradict the man's testimony. ...

The 'Rich Young Ruler' was actually not keeping the Commandments fully, please notice:

And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? Matthew 19:16

And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. Matthew 19:17

He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Matthew 19:18

Honour thy father and [thy] mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Matthew 19:19

The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Matthew 19:20

Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me. Matthew 19:21

But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. Matthew 19:22

See also Mark 10:17-30; Luke 18:18-23...

...which specific commandments was Jesus directly quoting from? The Ten Commandments, namely the 'second Table', dealing with Love of/to neighbour [Leviticus 19:-17-18], the horizontal relationship [man-to-man, one to another], as found here: Exodus 20:12-16...

...but notice, that there is one commandment which Jesus did not directly cite, found in Exodus 20:17...

...the one dealing with covetousness; the Tenth Commandment. Why?

Because the 'Rich Young Ruler' when asked to sell what he had and 'give' [being the antithesis to covetousness] to the poor and come and follow Jesus, would not do it. Therefore, he transgresses all of the commandments [even as James says], for his treasure [his mammon] was his Idol.

There is no 'fool's question' here, for the 'Rich Young Ruler' truly sought the answer to his question from Jesus, but when Jesus, by an indirect route placed His finger upon the point in the man's heart, the man refused to yield, and went on his way sorrowful, a slave to riches, and away from the one who offered him joy and freedom in Himself [Christ Jesus].

 

[3 Angels Messages]

You need to read Revalation very carefully say about chapters 4 and 5 on the subject of creation. Who sat on the throne? Who received the book from Him that sat upon the Throne? Why did they have to look for someone worthy to open the book?

I have, and it seems you are slightly [or altogether?] unitarian/arian, since you cannot be Jehovah's Witness bearing the symbol of the cross icon.

Contextually, all of Revelation [yea, the whole of scripture], It is the Throne of God and of the Lamb.

Genesis says, "Let us...", "our", hence Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and each may be found in Genesis, for all things were made "through" the Son; thus Christ Jesus is God. For more on that subject, please see a thorough look here:

Tri-In-Unity [please consider in depth the responses, each are my own responses from the Scriptures, with one or two quotations intermittant]:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7589311-24/#post59328459

http://www.christianforums.com/t7589311-24/#post59328605

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-24/#post59334407

http://www.christianforums.com/t7589311-25/#post59334725

http://www.christianforums.com/t7589311-25/#post59334817

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-25/#post59334890

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-25/#post59334926

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-25/#post59343146

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-25/#post59343152

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-25/#post59343175

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-26/#post59343218

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-26/#post59351055

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-26/#post59351130

http://www.christianforums.com/t7589311-26/#post59351155

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-26/#post59358144

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-26/#post59358227

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-26/#post59358388

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-27/#post59370472

http://www.christianforums.com/t7589311-27/#post59370643

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-27/#post59370868

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-27/#post59378993

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-27/#post59379039

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-27/#post59379180

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-27/#post59381035

http://www.christianforums.com/t7589311-28/#post59381110

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-28/#post59383731

http://www.christianforums.com/t7589311-28/#post59388254

http://www.christianforums.com/t7589311-28/#post59390020

http://www.christianforums.com/t7589311-28/#post59390466

Or you may see the original of these postings, here:

http://forums.carm.org/vbb/showthre...hew-9-15-etc&p=2126871&viewfull=1#post2126871

 

[listed]

The 'Rich Young Ruler' was actually not keeping the Commandments fully, please notice:

And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? Matthew 19:16

And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. Matthew 19:17

He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Matthew 19:18

Honour thy father and [thy] mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Matthew 19:19

The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Matthew 19:20

Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me. Matthew 19:21

But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. Matthew 19:22

See also Mark 10:17-30; Luke 18:18-23...

...which specific commandments was Jesus directly quoting from? The Ten Commandments, namely the 'second Table', dealing with Love of/to neighbour [Leviticus 19:-17-18], the horizontal relationship [man-to-man, one to another], as found here: Exodus 20:12-16...

...but notice, that there is one commandment which Jesus did not directly cite, found in Exodus 20:17...

...the one dealing with covetousness; the Tenth Commandment. Why?

Because the 'Rich Young Ruler' when asked to sell what he had and 'give' [being the antithesis to covetousness] to the poor and come and follow Jesus, would not do it. Therefore, he transgresses all of the commandments [even as James says], for his treasure [his mammon] was his Idol.

There is no 'fool's question' here, for the 'Rich Young Ruler' truly sought the answer to his question from Jesus, but when Jesus, by an indirect route placed His finger upon the point in the man's heart, the man refused to yield, and went on his way sorrowful, a slave to riches, and away from the one who offered him joy and freedom in Himself [Christ Jesus].

You should really look into the word covet and its self defining statement in Ex 20:17. I find no evidence for this in the story of the rich young ruler.

 

[3 Angels Messages]

Those who follow the leading of the Spirit aren't under (subject or obligated to) the law according to my verse. It is true that one who follows the leading of the Spirit is in harmony with God's laws placed in one's heart. These laws of God aren't the covenant or part of the covenant issued at Sinai per Jer 31::31-33. I don't care how you twist it.

Can you please cite which Laws [ref. Jeremiah 31:31-33; Ezekiel 36:27; Hebrews 8:8-10, 10:16] are then part of the New Covenant, and where they may be directly found in scripture?

 

[3 Angels Messages]

You should really look into the word covet and its self defining statement in Ex 20:17. I find no evidence for this in the story of the rich young ruler.

So you merely are looking at the 'letter' and not the 'spirit' of it?

 

[listed]

I have, and it seems you are slightly [or altogether?] unitarian/arian, since you cannot be Jehovah's Witness bearing the symbol of the cross icon.

Contextually, all of Revelation [yea, the whole of scripture], It is the Throne of God and of the Lamb.

Genesis says, "Let us...", "our", hence Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and each may be found in Genesis, for all things were made "through" the Son; thus Christ Jesus is God. For more on that subject, please see a thorough look here:

Tri-In-Unity [please consider in depth the responses, each are my own responses from the Scriptures, with one or two quotations intermittant]:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7589311-24/#post59328459

http://www.christianforums.com/t7589311-24/#post59328605

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-24/#post59334407

http://www.christianforums.com/t7589311-25/#post59334725

http://www.christianforums.com/t7589311-25/#post59334817

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-25/#post59334890

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-25/#post59334926

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-25/#post59343146

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-25/#post59343152

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-25/#post59343175

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-26/#post59343218

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-26/#post59351055

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-26/#post59351130

http://www.christianforums.com/t7589311-26/#post59351155

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-26/#post59358144

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-26/#post59358227

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-26/#post59358388

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-27/#post59370472

http://www.christianforums.com/t7589311-27/#post59370643

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-27/#post59370868

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-27/#post59378993

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-27/#post59379039

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-27/#post59379180

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-27/#post59381035

http://www.christianforums.com/t7589311-28/#post59381110

www.christianforums.com/t7589311-28/#post59383731

http://www.christianforums.com/t7589311-28/#post59388254

http://www.christianforums.com/t7589311-28/#post59390020

http://www.christianforums.com/t7589311-28/#post59390466

Or you may see the original of these postings, here:

Isaiah 54:5; Ephesians 5:23; 2 Corinthians 11:2; Matthew 9:15, etc...

I have no idea why you think I'm unitarian or arian in belief. Jesus was and is and always be God. Jesus is a part of the Trinity. And you didn't do as I asked you to do concerning Revelation 4 and 5. These 2 chapters answere once and for all very clearly that Jesus isn't the Creator. That is credited strictly to Him that sat on the Throne. And He that sat on the throne gave the book to the Lamb. They therefore can't be the same entity. This doesn't address them both being God. So there is no Trinitarian denial there. There certianly is in your doctrine though.

 

[listed]

Can you please cite which Laws [ref. Jeremiah 31:31-33; Ezekiel 36:27; Hebrews 8:8-10, 10:16] are then part of the New Covenant, and where they may be directly found in scripture?

Certianly there are none for the Christian.

How many verses say not under the law in the NT? Hint Romans 6, 7 and Gal 5:18

How many other verses indicate not obligated to the law? hint - Rom 10, 14, I Cor 9, Gal 3, 4 and 5, Col 2, James 2.

Are we led by the Spirit or the law? Hint -Gal 5:18

To whom does the law apply in the NC? Hint Gal 5, I Tim 1

 

[listed]

So you merely are looking at the 'letter' and not the 'spirit' of it?

What ever do you mean? You didn't consider a thing I said. We have no communication.

 

[3 Angels Messages]

I have no idea why you think I'm unitarian or arian in belief. Jesus was and is and always be God. Jesus is a part of the Trinity. And you didn't do as I asked you to do concerning Revelation 4 and 5. These 2 chapters answere once and for all very clearly that Jesus isn't the Creator. That is credited strictly to Him that sat on the Throne. And He that sat on the throne gave the book to the Lamb. They therefore can't be the same entity. This doesn't address them both being God. So there is no Trinitarian denial there. There certianly is in your doctrine though.

John 1:3, please consider the Positive and Negative in which the way in which the structure of the sentence is given:

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:3

[1] "all things" were "made by him" [that is the Word; Jesus] - positive structure

[2] "without him" [that is the Word; Jesus] "was not anything made" that "was made" - negative structure

Christ Jesus is a person, even as the Father and the Holy Spirit are persons. Thus plurality working in absolute harmonious unity. God is love.

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: Colossians 1:6

For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exodus 20:11

Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. Revelation 14:7

Jesus is YHVH [LORD] [the Son].

Please allow me to add, a further context of John, since He was the one that wrote Revelation:

He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. John 1:10

 

[3 Angels Messages]

Certianly there are none for the Christian....

Antinomian - no law [without law] or against the law.

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7:23

"iniquity" = anomia "ἀνομία"

"...
1) the condition of without law
a) because ignorant of it
b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness" [Strong's Concordance] - Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon see also Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by 3 Angels Messages So you merely are looking at the 'letter' and not the 'spirit' of it?

What ever do you mean? You didn't consider a thing I said. We have no communication.

That happens here sometimes

.

 

[listed]

John 1:3, please consider the Positive and Negative in which the way in which the structure of the sentence is given:

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:3

[1] "all things" were "made by him" [that is the Word; Jesus] - positive structure

[2] "without him" [that is the Word; Jesus] "was not anything made" that "was made" - negative structure

Christ Jesus is a person, even as the Father and the Holy Spirit are persons. Thus plurality working in absolute harmonious unity. God is love.

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: Colossians 1:6

For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exodus 20:11

Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. Revelation 14:7

Jesus is YHVH [LORD] [the Son].

Please allow me to add, a further context of John, since He was the one that wrote Revelation:

He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. John 1:10

A very big deal was made about every word of God by tazdik recently. You should consider the chapters of Revelation 4 and 5 I've pointed to concerning this.

I understand where you're coming from on this issue. I had problemms with it for a long time. You have pronoun problems.

 

[listed]

Antinomian - no law [without law] or against the law.

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7:23

"iniquity" = anomia "ἀνομία"

"...
1) the condition of without law
a) because ignorant of it
b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness" [Strong's Concordance] - Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon see also Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

The pro grace person isn't lawless and wayward as accused. They have a very different law they submit to as pointed out in Jer 31:31-33. That law is the law of liberty also known as the the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. Nothing about the law of Moses or the ten commandments. The Christian doesn't answer to the law.

The Christian has already passed the judgement and entered into life per John 5:24.