SSPX: I guess ecumenical councils are no longer infallible

[Meowzltov]

So? They are unique. And? It wasn't from Mohammed we were given the Savior. They are unique in so much as God established Judaism. We have no reason to hold anything against them. we should build bridges because they need to be saved like everyone else. I just do not want you to think they have some special salvation reserved just for them because they do not. I do not want you to think it's Gods will and plan that they go back to Israel to rebuild the temple because it's not.

As a Hebrew Catholic, I have spent FAR more time thinking through these issues than the average Catholic, even the Pope. As far as their salvation goes, I go with the two covenant idea that Pope St. John Paul II taught.

 

[Meowzltov]

The group they are on about Some call them crypto jews... its got to do with the talmud its lucifarian origins and its ocultic nature in the freemasons

Crypto Jews are simply those of Jewish decent whose ancestors converted to Catholicism by coercion in Spain. They usually maintain some Jewish traditions in addition to being Catholic, such as not eating pork, or lighting candles in a closet on Friday nights.

The Talmud is not occultic and has nothing to do with the Freemasons. That's antisemitism plain and simple. The Talmud is simply Oral Torah written down, much of it case history in Jewish Law.

Do you know what a Hebrew Catholic is?

 

[Meowzltov]

That's what's keeping them separated, but not what caused the separation. The original separation was caused by Archbishop Lefavbre illicit consecration for bishops.

There was a reason he was forbidden to consecrate bishops.

 

[benedictaoo]

As a Hebrew Catholic, I have spent FAR more time thinking through these issues than the average Catholic, even the Pope. As far as their salvation goes, I go with the two covenant idea that Pope St. John Paul II taught.

I have no idea what you are talking about. JPll did not teach they get a special second chance salvation. They are free to come to believe the same way we all are. If you are a converted Jew, amen. You are special indeed. They way you have been converted is the same way all Jews can be converted.

 

[pdudgeon]

As a Hebrew Catholic, I have spent FAR more time thinking through these issues than the average Catholic, even the Pope. As far as their salvation goes, I go with the two covenant idea that Pope St. John Paul II taught.

I agree.

The covenant with the Jews was suspended on Palm Sunday when Jesus entered into Jerusalem on the foal that had never been ridden. the crowds recognized what was happening, but the temple leaders would have nothing to do with the fulfilled prophesy and refused to recognize Jesus as the Messiah.
When Jesus returns, at the end of time then their clock of remaining days will start again. Those who acccept Jesus as the Messiah will be hidden away in Petra (the cleft of the Rock), as they exit Jerusalem-- which they will recognize for it's OT signifiance as being hidden in the Messiah in the same way that Abrahan was when God passed by.
The two prophets spoken of in Revelation will complete the testimony to Israel, and there will be converts from all the 12 tribes (not all of which were there on Palm Sunday--another reason to suspend the Jewish timetable) who will accept Christ as the Messiah they had waited for.

Another reason for the suspension of the Jewish covenant is that someone has to be there to witness the fulfillment of the prophesy of the cessation of the trampling of the court by those who are not Jewish.

 

[benedictaoo]

This is not Church teaching, it is end times speculation. Officially there isn't a teaching that they'll have a second chance at salvation.

 

[Meowzltov]

I have no idea what you are talking about. JPll did not teach they get a special second chance salvation. They are free to come to believe the same way we all are. If you are a converted Jew, amen. You are special indeed. They way you have been converted is the same way all Jews can be converted.

I remember very clearly that Pope St John Paul II taught a two covenant model. He gave a speech where he said the Jews were a people of the Old Covenant THAT WASNT REVOKED.

 

[Meowzltov]

The covenant with the Jews was suspended on Palm Sunday when Jesus entered into Jerusalem

Not according to Pope St. John Paul the II. He said the Old Covenant was never revoked.

Here it is in the Catechism:

121 The Old Testament is an indispensable part of Sacred Scripture. Its books are divinely inspired and retain a permanent value,92 for the Old Covenant has never been revoked.

 

[mea kulpa]

I remember very clearly that Pope St John Paul II taught a two covenant model. He gave a speech where he said the Jews were a people of the Old Covenant WHICH WAS NEVER REVOKED.

This is post conciliour teaching that flys in the face of traditional catholicism... its an error of the modern church that has led to further error from pope francis that we need not seek the conversion of jews.

The old covenant ceased to exist. NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME (JESUS)

If the old covenant was still in effect jews could go to the father without accepting jesus... that is heresy.

Jesus said to his apostles whoever rejects you rejects me whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me i.e God. the jews reject chrjstianity and jesus they reject God

Jesus to the jews "you are of your father the devil"

Jesus refered to the new covenant as the new and everlasting covenant. Implying that the old covenant had passed away.... had been fullfilled

 

[Meowzltov]

If you are a converted Jew, amen. You are special indeed.

That's very kind of you to say, Thank you.

I feel special because God loves me and sent Christ to die for me, and forgave me when I didn't deserve it.

Being a Jew is, well, just kind of there. It's like having a different job. I'm not better or worse, just different. As a Hebrew Catholic, I do appreciate my Jewish identity, keeping laws and traditions out of love. How fortunate I am to live in these times, when it is okay for a Hebrew Catholic to do so without my devotion to Christ and his Church being called into question.

 

[mea kulpa]

Not according to Pope St. John Paul the II. He said the Old Covenant was never revoked.

Here it is in the Catechism:

121 The Old Testament is an indispensable part of Sacred Scripture. Its books are divinely inspired and retain a permanent value,92 for the Old Covenant has never been revoked.

Not revoked... completed... the church is isreal the new jerusalem

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

That's very kind of you to say, Thank you.

I feel special because God loves me and sent Christ to die for me, and forgave me when I didn't deserve it.

Being a Jew is, well, just kind of there. It's like having a different job. I'm not better or worse, just different. As a Hebrew Catholic, I do appreciate my Jewish identity, keeping laws and traditions out of love. How fortunate I am to live in these times, when it is okay for a Hebrew Catholic to do so without my devotion to Christ and his Church being called into question.

I take it you weren't a Orthodox Jew?

 

[mea kulpa]

Jeremias 31:
31 Behold the days shall come, saith the Lord, and I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Juda:
32Not according to the covenant which I made with their fathers, in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt: the covenant which they made void,

 

[Meowzltov]

This is post conciliour teaching that flys in the face of traditional catholicism... its an error of the modern church that has led to further error from pope francis that we need not seek the conversion of jews.

Really? Because NOT ONLY is it part of Nostra Aetate, NOT ONLY is it part of our Catechism, but it is part of our Bible, Romans 11 to be precise. Indeed Nostra Aetate quotes from Romans 11. Last I checked, "traditional catholicism" still believed in the Bible, yes?

Yet they are still the people he loves because he chose their ancestors Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:28, 29

As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, Romans 11:28

and in this way ALL Israel will be saved

 

[Michie]

Matthew 5:17

 

[Meowzltov]

I take it you weren't a Orthodox Jew?

I was Orthodox for many years, then I left Orthodoxy and attended a Reform Temple which I hated but it was the only one in town. BUT RIGHT NOW I am CATHOLIC. Why?

 

[mea kulpa]

Hebrews:

Chapter 8:
8 For finding fault with them, he saith: Behold, the days shall come, saith the Lord: and I will perfect unto the house of Israel, and unto the house of Juda, a new testament:
9 Not according to the testament which I made to their fathers, on the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt: because they continued not in my testament: and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the testament which I will make to the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord: I will give my laws into their mind, and in their heart will I write them: and I will be their God, and they shall be my people:

 

[Meowzltov]

Not revoked... completed... the church is isreal the new jerusalem

spoken like a true anti-Vat 2 traditionalist.

The Church is the NEW Israel, not Israel. New Israel doesn't supplant Israel anymore than New York supplants York.

 

[mea kulpa]

Really? Because NOT ONLY is it part of Nostra Aetate, NOT ONLY is it part of our Catechism, but it is part of our Bible, Romans 11 to be precise. Indeed Nostra Aetate quotes from Romans 11. Last I checked, "traditional catholicism" still believed in the Bible, yes?

Yet they are still the people he loves because he chose their ancestors Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:28, 29

As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, Romans 11:28

and in this way ALL Israel will be saved

Not revoked but finished completed obsolete

Since v2... they use not revoked to confuse you... as if the old covenant is still in effect... its not... its "fulfilled"

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

Nothing just that jews in general consider themselves jewish because of their faith.

Without believing in judaism one ceases to be a jew...

At least that's what I where thought by my rabbi as I explored judaism prior to my conversion to Catholicism.

So I just assumed that since you consider yourself to be a catholic jew that you didn't believed in orthodox terminology prior to your conversion either.

Well that being said it's awsome that you're catholic now