Spiritual warfare

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Pteriax

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I would like to get everyone's take on spiritual warfare:
What you believe it is, how you have experienced it, testimonies, what you think the Bible teaches on it, and things of this nature.

It has been a focus of study for me personally for many years and is also the focus of my ministry (along with counter-cult apologetics).

I would also like to ask what is your take on demonic possession, exorcism, and deliverance?

As for me, I am an exorcism and deliverance minister with the American Association of Exorcists, and I have had some hands on experience. I don't really know how the larger Christian community views this sort of thing and I am very curious. I hope this starts a good discussion so we can sort of compare notes or whatnot.
 

PersephonesTear

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I would like to get everyone's take on spiritual warfare:
What you believe it is, how you have experienced it, testimonies, what you think the Bible teaches on it, and things of this nature.

It has been a focus of study for me personally for many years and is also the focus of my ministry (along with counter-cult apologetics).

I would also like to ask what is your take on demonic possession, exorcism, and deliverance?

As for me, I am an exorcism and deliverance minister with the American Association of Exorcists, and I have had some hands on experience. I don't really know how the larger Christian community views this sort of thing and I am very curious. I hope this starts a good discussion so we can sort of compare notes or whatnot.
Oh wow, you are a Calvinist and an exorcist! I never would have put the two together... But I guess there is a lot about Calvinism that I don't know. :)

Gosh, I don't even know where to start on what I think spiritual warfare essentially IS, so I'll let others chime in on that one.

As for exorcism and deliverance, well... I have a whole long history with deliverance and deliverance teachings.

I rarely, if ever, have heard the word "exorcism" used in Protestant circles, though in truth that is what is usually meant when they say the word "deliverance." They are talking about casting out demons and/or evil spirits, depending on the view.

I feel the term "deliverance" is misused in this context, because it narrows the concept. For example, as Christians have we not been delivered from sin, from damnation, and from so many other things? Some people have been delivered from sickness or addictions, which (contrary to some teachings) I do NOT believe are always necessarily demonic.

But, deliverance is the term that is used in the circles in which I grew up to mean, basically, the casting out of evil spirits. So I'll limit my usage of it to this general school of thought for the purposes of this thread, unless otherwise stated.

Unfortunately, what I have seen in the church in regard to deliverance has not been the most positive... I will state emphatically and without any doubt that every person I have met who is a deliverance minister or a minister who practices deliverance has been a sincere, loving, well meaning individual who truly wants to help others.

However, much of what I have seen taught and practiced has been based on bad information... And I have seen many scripture verses used to justify what they are doing that have been taken out of context and really stretched to mean something that they clearly do not mean when the entire text is read.

Most of the deliverance ministers I have seen pretty much just stumble through it the best that they can. The ones that I have seen who are truly helped by it are helped because God is merciful; and Jesus did not leave us powerless. But the process still leaves much to be desired... I doubt how many of them have dealt with real demons, as opposed to problems caused by other sources.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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I would like to get everyone's take on spiritual warfare:
What you believe it is, how you have experienced it, testimonies, what you think the Bible teaches on it, and things of this nature.

It has been a focus of study for me personally for many years and is also the focus of my ministry (along with counter-cult apologetics).

I would also like to ask what is your take on demonic possession, exorcism, and deliverance?

As for me, I am an exorcism and deliverance minister with the American Association of Exorcists, and I have had some hands on experience. I don't really know how the larger Christian community views this sort of thing and I am very curious. I hope this starts a good discussion so we can sort of compare notes or whatnot.

well the community rules say to not give exorcisms online or provide exorcism instructions.

But as one with spiritual giftings that allows me to interface with the supernatural i find confessing sin i discern (like an infection in the air) as my own (regardless of whose it is) very helpful in removing the "land bridge" that leads to people and myself.

removing fear and replacing it with the bible's description of love can make the person invisible to the enemy as they sniff out fear and intuitively use it as a gateway. that's any type of fear . love replacing love is a NT thing, alluded to in the psalms, but the proverbs remained at the beginning of wisdom .. until Christ came love being completed in us and fear being cast out like how Joshua did not fear dying when he sat in God's intimate presence though the rest of the israelites had good reason to be afraid .. until Christ came . it just wasn't there .

Basically removing what acts as a gateway . and creating or building up what is Godly .. is the basic strategy .

there's other stuff but usually people disagree over the theology of it so i just work with God on it .
 
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Gregory Thompson

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James Chapter 3 through the two wisdoms instructs how a Christian can be demonized . sometimes spiritual warfare comes from demonized christians who have the kingdom arsenal at their disposal . which is why i emphasize some theologies .. but avoid others like the plague . "hating even the clothing stained by rotting flesh"

and it's a luke kinda "hate" where you always put it "last" in emphasis . incase there was any confusion . God is love . this is important to remember in spiritual warfare . to hate with a malice premise gives a very stable land bridge for the enemy to walk over to your location .
 
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Pteriax

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Oh wow, you are a Calvinist and an exorcist! I never would have put the two together... But I guess there is a lot about Calvinism that I don't know. :)

Eh, I don't like the term exorcist, but it is the most well recognized term.

I rarely, if ever, have heard the word "exorcism" used in Protestant circles, though in truth that is what is usually meant when they say the word "deliverance." They are talking about casting out demons and/or evil spirits, depending on the view.

I feel the term "deliverance" is misused in this context, because it narrows the concept. For example, as Christians have we not been delivered from sin, from damnation, and from so many other things? Some people have been delivered from sickness or addictions, which (contrary to some teachings) I do NOT believe are always necessarily demonic.

But, deliverance is the term that is used in the circles in which I grew up to mean, basically, the casting out of evil spirits. So I'll limit my usage of it to this general school of thought for the purposes of this thread, unless otherwise stated.

Unfortunately, what I have seen in the church in regard to deliverance has not been the most positive... I will state emphatically and without any doubt that every person I have met who is a deliverance minister or a minister who practices deliverance has been a sincere, loving, well meaning individual who truly wants to help others.

However, much of what I have seen taught and practiced has been based on bad information... And I have seen many scripture verses used to justify what they are doing that have been taken out of context and really stretched to mean something that they clearly do not mean when the entire text is read.

Most of the deliverance ministers I have seen pretty much just stumble through it the best that they can. The ones that I have seen who are truly helped by it are helped because God is merciful; and Jesus did not leave us powerless. But the process still leaves much to be desired... I doubt how many of them have dealt with real demons, as opposed to problems caused by other sources.

Exorcism and deliverance are the same, it's just that some recognize one term, others another.

I agree (if this is what you are saying) that some modern deliverance ministers get carried away "casting out the demon of blank" Or whatever, trying to blame every bad habit on demons, like smoking or whatever.
 
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Pteriax

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well the community rules say to not give exorcisms online or provide exorcism instructions.

And I trust everyone will stick to that in a discussion of this nature.

But as one with spiritual giftings that allows me to interface with the supernatural i find confessing sin i discern (like an infection in the air) as my own (regardless of whose it is) very helpful in removing the "land bridge" that leads to people and myself.

removing fear and replacing it with the bible's description of love can make the person invisible to the enemy as they sniff out fear and intuitively use it as a gateway. that's any type of fear . love replacing love is a NT thing, alluded to in the psalms, but the proverbs remained at the beginning of wisdom .. until Christ came love being completed in us and fear being cast out like how Joshua did not fear dying when he sat in God's intimate presence though the rest of the israelites had good reason to be afraid .. until Christ came . it just wasn't there .

Basically removing what acts as a gateway . and creating or building up what is Godly .. is the basic strategy .

there's other stuff but usually people disagree over the theology of it so i just work with God on it .

Like finding the cause of a potentially demonic problem in someone's life, and helping them to 'fix' or remove it?
 
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Gregory Thompson

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And I trust everyone will stick to that in a discussion of this nature.



Like finding the cause of a potentially demonic problem in someone's life, and helping them to 'fix' or remove it?

so you didn't want to discuss it . hope you have a good day .
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Anyone have any idea why this is taboo, but virtually every other Biblical subject is not?

It's taboo because there's rules restricting what can be said about it . but if you wish to discuss freely this topic that would happen in private messages
 
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TamaraLynne

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For me knowing God abides in me and the very ground we touch is Holy ground and knowing that God is our armor and as we look to him and abide in him knowing that we have been given authority to speak against the darkness but knowing that it is God that goes forth and conquers. That is what I know for now...it helps me to stand.
 
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PersephonesTear

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Anyone have any idea why this is taboo, but virtually every other Biblical subject is not?
Yeah, I think there are several reasons, a couple of which are pretty dominant.

First - western thought does not allow for the existence of demons. As Christians, however, we are taught to believe in the supernatural. So this creates a bit of a knee-jerk revulsion to the subject, particularly since so few people come into contact with demons. There is a limit to what people in our society can swallow, so trying to push deliverance theology on them creates the reaction of, "Okay... well I believe X, X, and X... but now you've just gone too far." And, in some cases, the theology IS taken too far... way, way too far. Which spoils the rest of the barrel.

Which brings me to point two - It's seen as fringe stuff, too far off of the mainstream to be healthy. And the reason is that a lot of times, it is. I've seen some people make some really exaggerated claims that cannot be substantiated or independently validated. This is a real problem, because it saps the credibility of the person making the claim. The problem crops up with faith healers, too - wild claims are made about curing cancer or AIDS, but later investigation shows that the person either never had that disease or that the disease was still there. That is not to say that every single miracle absolutely MUST be medically documented - but people should be bending over backward to gather medical (or in the case of possession, other types) of document-able proof that a miracle has occurred.

Being able to independently verify that something was going on may be harder in cases of demonic possession, because it's not like they can just go to the doctor and get an X-ray. But the effort should still be made, and stuff that seems "too freaky to be real" should never be shared unless there IS some kind of proof of it.

For example, I've heard certain fringe elements talk about cursed objects or tracking devices being removed from people's bodies during exorcism. Okay, so where are the objects? They should be meticulously documented with photos, witness statements, and lab reports. Don't call something a tracking device unless there is proof that it is a tracking device. Likewise, don't call something an animal part unless that has been tested and proven to be exactly that. Ministers, however much experience they may have, are not scientists. I don't find it at all beyond the realm of belief that they could misidentify a piece of bone or a weird fleshy growth as something entirely different. And when people start talking about wild conspiracy theories or really "out there" stuff that no normal person ever encounters, they should not expect anyone - even other Christians - to just take that as fact because we are supposed to have faith.

Another reason this sort of thing turns Christians off is the general attitude that everyone is out to get them! Or whomever is a follower of Christ. Every time someone is mean to us, it must be demonically motivated. Every time we have a hang up - demons. That nasty woman who gave us the evil eye in the grocery line yesterday morning? Well, she must have been a witch who sensed we were Christian, and now she's off casting a spell on us! What other explanation could there possibly be that we got that flat tire yesterday afternoon?

I don't mean this as an attack on you personally, because I know you are a deliverance minister. I'm just trying to explain the wilder stuff out there, because part of the answer to your question is that a lot of this wilder stuff gets lumped into the whole shebang.

Also - one final point. Though there are Christians who are pretty much just sheep that go along with whatever they learn in Sunday School, there are still many out there who are discerning and who know when they are being fed a line. If people go to church and are taught detailed deliverance processes that people have go through, and all sorts of doctrines about legal rights, generational curses, soul ties, and all the other lingo out there... they get the distinct impression that there is a whole lot of fluff and fanfare to casting out demons. They get this impression because they learn that it all has to be done a certain way, have all of the i's dotted and the t's crossed, go through every step and every process or else the nasty demon won't leave or might come back!

... Then they one day meet a real demon, and they learn that facing it down requires absolutely nothing that they were ever taught, only the name of Jesus and their faith in Him.

Well, at that point, that person then knows exactly what a line of bull he/she has been fed throughout the years.

Not to mention all of the Christians who have had "demons" cast out of them when there weren't any demons present... That can very easily leave a bad taste in the mouth.
 
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I won't presume to be an expert, but I've seen a few things happen that only make sense in the context of demons and possessions and what not. Can't say I've ever exorcised someone but I will say that I think there is a big difference between someone who is oppressed by demons and someone who is aligned with them. Discernment I think is necessary, concerning the motives of any individuals involved. As it was said earlier, God is love, and the Spirit of God is not malicious, but even with knowing that it can be difficult to discern between someone who is reacting out of pain and bitterness and someone who is taking pleasure in evil.

Other than that, as far as how to wage spiritual warfare, I find it's rather simply summarized (as with most of everything concerning the faith) in believing on and following Christ. If we do this, then the following verses should begin to take shape in one's life:

The steps of a [righteous] man are ordered by the LORD, And He delights in his way. -Ps 37:23

[A Psalm] of David. Blessed [be] the LORD my Rock, Who trains my hands for war, [And] my fingers for battle-- My lovingkindness and my fortress, My high tower and my deliverer, My shield and [the One] in whom I take refuge, Who subdues my people under me. -Ps 144:1,2

In other words, Christ is the blueprint. If we show compassion as He showed compassion, rebuke as He rebuked, endure suffering as He suffered, etc, then we ascend upon the Son of Man; we draw near to God and God draws near to us, and it is He who does the works (John 14:10).

Also, there is a word of warning from the Apostles:

But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, [that is], those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. -Heb 15:14

Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature.
-1 Cr 14:20

There is a temptation, I think, in running off to wage spiritual warfare because it sounds like one of the more exciting aspects of the faith. There is also a fascination with evil that can ensnare us. Watch out. As I said already, believing on Christ and following Him is where it's at, as boring and unpleasant as it may sound.
 
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rockytopva

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Pteriax

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Could you tell us some stories that stand out to you about exorcisms? Any supernatural experiences? I'm fascinated by supernatural stuff. I think exorcisms are biblical, even if it's hard to tell when one is needed or not.

Well, by the forum rules I cannot divulge what is involved in an exorcism unfortunately. I think they feel that people who are unqualified may attempt it on their own, which of course is very dangerous.

I suppose some anecdotes would be harmless though.
I have seen the possessed turn violent and destructive suddenly, screaming and cursing God, speaking in tongues, becoming violently ill, attempting suicide or self harm, and things of that nature. These are extreme examples though. As I said in a previous post, over 90% of cases are oppression, not possession, so that is mainly what I deal with. It is more like being in a counseling session than anything else most of the time. I have gotten emergency calls in the middle of the night and so forth but again they are rare. Certain behaviors do make one more prone to demonic attack, such as alcohol and drug abuse, sexual promiscuity, and dabbling in occultic practices like Ouija, tarot, and things like that.

If you want more specific information you would have to send me a private message, because again, the forum rules are there to protect people and I have no intention of crossing any sort of line there. And there are places I will not go even in a private message, to be sure.
 
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Rhamiel

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even though it is written as fiction, I think a lot wisdom is in the book The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis.

for a while even the Catholic Church stopped taking demons seriously.
but over the past 15 years especially w have been getting a lot better at this.
 
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pshun2404

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I would like to get everyone's take on spiritual warfare:
What you believe it is, how you have experienced it, testimonies, what you think the Bible teaches on it, and things of this nature.

It has been a focus of study for me personally for many years and is also the focus of my ministry (along with counter-cult apologetics).

I would also like to ask what is your take on demonic possession, exorcism, and deliverance?

As for me, I am an exorcism and deliverance minister with the American Association of Exorcists, and I have had some hands on experience. I don't really know how the larger Christian community views this sort of thing and I am very curious. I hope this starts a good discussion so we can sort of compare notes or whatnot.

Wow! I never met a Calvinist who thought such a thing would make a difference (really)...can the elect become Demon possessed? Seriously! I am not trying to derail but this seems a contradiction.

Paul
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Sometimes i do encounter demonic activity and when i do . it comes in clusters . i don't seek it out . but when people are being harassed regardless of their faith . i help however the holy spirit leads .
 
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