Spiritual vs Physical

[SabbathBlessings]

Who would carry out the executions of those who work on the Sabbath?

It wasn't just breaking the Sabbath commandment that God deemed the death penalty for. It was breaking other of God's moral code like adultery, idolatry but funny that those are never brought up Deuteronomy 13:6, 10; 21:18, 21; 22: 21-28, and all of Leviticus 20.

The Ten Commandments is what points out sin so we know what not to break. 1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7, the wages of sin is still death, but man was given a second chance through the blood of Jesus who forgives us of our sins, when we have a changed heart and repent and turn from sin and walk with Him in obedience to His commandments.

Sin and sinners will still have a death penalty but will be carried out on the last day. Hebrews 10:26-30

 

[Leaf473]

The weekly Sabbath is not a yearly feast and has nothing to do with food/drink or sacrificial offerings. It is the holy day of the Lord thy God Exodus 20:10, Genesis 2:1-3, Isaiah 58:13 that was part of Creation before sin entered. The yearly sabbath feasts that have to do with the sacrificial system after the fall of man all point to Jesus as He became our sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sin and sanctification when we turn from sin and walk with Him in obedience.

The Sabbath commandment is part of a unit of Ten Exodus 34:28 that God placed together so man cannot separate, written by the finger of God and it is what points out sin. 1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7 there is no scripture that says we are free to break the commandments of God. James quotes right from this unit of Ten saying you break one of these commandments you break them all. James 2:10-12

Hi SB,

I could be wrong on this, and maybe this isn't what you're talking about, but it looks to me like the weekly Sabbath did have a sacrifice:

‘On the Sabbath day, make an offering of two lambs a year old without defect, together with its drink offering and a grain offering of two-tenths of an ephah of the finest flour mixed with olive oil. 10 This is the burnt offering for every Sabbath, in addition to the regular burnt offering and its drink offering.
Bible Gateway passage: Numbers 28 - New International Version

 

[Leaf473]

The spiritual rest that Jesus supplies doesn't overturn the physical rest which He also supplies in His once a week Sabbath rest. Compare the following two passages and consider the three color-coded elements and then see if you can answer the related questions:

Matthew 11:28
Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

John 7:37
On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink."​

T__ F__ There is a physical component to humans resting on the Sabbath.
T__ F__ Finding spiritual rest in Jesus is no different than drinking spiritual water. Both do not negate the continued need for their physical counterpart.
T__ F__ Resting in Jesus means that humans no longer require any physical rest.

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

I'm gonna answer:
T
T
F
(I'm not sure about the second True, there may be a physical aspect of the rest of Jesus offers in Matthew 11.)

But given the T,T,F, it looks like an airtight case. But... Wouldn't it also apply equally to the entire law?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Hi SB,

I could be wrong on this, and maybe this isn't what you're talking about, but it looks to me like the weekly Sabbath did have a sacrifice:

‘On the Sabbath day, make an offering of two lambs a year old without defect, together with its drink offering and a grain offering of two-tenths of an ephah of the finest flour mixed with olive oil. 10 This is the burnt offering for every Sabbath, in addition to the regular burnt offering and its drink offering.
Bible Gateway passage: Numbers 28 - New International Version

There was a sacrificial offering every day, not just on the Sabbath, after the fall of man. Do our sins need to be forgiven every day? yes. What ended at the cross was the sacrificial ordinances Col 2:14, Eps 2:15 in the law of Moses that points to Jesus as He became our sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sin and sanctification when we repent and turn from sin (breaking God's law), not any of the commandments of God as the scripture clearly shows, which is what defines sin. Roman 7:7, 1 John 3:4 God saints keep the commandments of God including the 4th commandment which has nothing to do with animal sacrifices. Exodus 20:8-11

 

[SabbathBlessings]

@Leaf473 There was a sacrificial offering every day, not just on the Sabbath, after the fall of man. Do our sins need to be forgiven every day? yes. What ended at the cross was the sacrificial ordinances Col 2:14, Eps 2:15 in the law of Moses that points to Jesus as He became our sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sin and sanctification when we repent and turn from sin (breaking God's law), not any of the commandments of God as the scripture clearly shows, which is what defines sin. Roman 7:7, 1 John 3:4 God saints keep the commandments of God including the 4th commandment which has nothing to do with animal sacrifices. Exodus 20:8-11

 

[Leaf473]

There was a sacrificial offering every day, not just on the Sabbath, after the fall of man. Do our sins need to be forgiven every day? yes. What ended at the cross was the sacrificial ordinances Col 2:14, Eps 2:15 in the law of Moses that points to Jesus as He became our sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sin and sanctification when we repent and turn from sin (breaking God's law), not any of the commandments of God as the scripture clearly shows, which is what defines sin. Roman 7:7, 1 John 3:4 God saints keep the commandments of God including the 4th commandment which has nothing to do with animal sacrifices. Exodus 20:8-11

True, that there was a sacrificial offering every day.

But the daily sacrifice was made with a tenth of an ephah of flower, the Sabbath day sacrifice was two tenths.

There's also this:
This is the burnt offering for every Sabbath, in addition to the regular burnt offering and its drink offering.

It looks like it's In addition to.

 

[Leaf473]

@Leaf473 There was a sacrificial offering every day, not just on the Sabbath, after the fall of man. Do our sins need to be forgiven every day? yes. What ended at the cross was the sacrificial ordinances Col 2:14, Eps 2:15 in the law of Moses that points to Jesus as He became our sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sin and sanctification when we repent and turn from sin (breaking God's law), not any of the commandments of God as the scripture clearly shows, which is what defines sin. Roman 7:7, 1 John 3:4 God saints keep the commandments of God including the 4th commandment which has nothing to do with animal sacrifices. Exodus 20:8-11

I was responding to the idea that the weekly Sabbath had nothing to do with sacrifices.

Is it only sacrificial ordinances that ended at the cross, or all the ordinances in the law of Moses?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I was responding to the idea that the weekly Sabbath had nothing to do with sacrifices.

Is it only sacrificial ordinances that ended at the cross, or all the ordinances in the law of Moses?

It doesn't read Exodus 20:8-11. The Sabbath is about spending time with God doing His ways on His holy day Isaiah 58:13

I already know where you stand the Sabbath commandment and that's okay, we don't need to agree.

 

[Leaf473]

It doesn't read Exodus 20:8-11. The Sabbath is about spending time with God doing His ways on His holy day Isaiah 58:13

I already know where you stand the Sabbath commandment and that's okay, we don't need to agree.

Right, it's not in Exodus 20, it's in Numbers 28. There was a special sacrifice on the weekly Sabbath. That would be part of celebrating the Sabbath as well in the law of Moses.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Right, it's not in Exodus 20, it's in Numbers 28. There was a special sacrifice on the weekly Sabbath. That would be part of celebrating the Sabbath as well in the law of Moses.

Seems like we are going in circles-this was already addressed in post #25

 

[Leaf473]

Going in circles already addressed in post #25 take care

Did you want to answer this question related to Post 25?

Is it only sacrificial ordinances that ended at the cross, or all the ordinances in the law of Moses?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Did you want to answer this question related to Post 25?

The context is with the sacrificial system because Jesus became our Sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin and sanctification when we have a change heart, repent and turn from sin to walk with God in obedience to His commandments through faith and love.

The law of God and the Ten Commandments written by the finger of God that points out sin did not end as shown in Matthew 15:3-9. Matthew 19:17-19, 1 John 2:3-6, Matthew 5:17-30, Hebrews 10:26-30, John 14:15, 1 John 5:3, John 15:10, Revelation 14:15. Revelation 22:14-15 plus a plethora of others.

 

[Leaf473]

The context is with the sacrificial system because Jesus became our Sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin and sanctification when we have a change heart, repent and turn from sin to walk with God in obedience to His commandments through faith and love.

The law of God and the Ten Commandments written by the finger of God that points out sin did not end as shown in Matthew 15:3-9. Matthew 19:17-19, 1 John 2:3-6, Matthew 5:17-30, Hebrews 10:26-30, John 14:15, 1 John 5:3, John 15:10, Revelation 14:15. Revelation 22:14-15 plus a plethora of others.

Then it sounds like everything in the law of Moses that isn't a sacrifice or the ten commandments is the law of God. Thanks for your answer, if that's what you meant.

 

[Leaf473]

Seems like we are going in circles-this was already addressed in post #25

Also, you could clarify this, if you wish:

It doesn't read Exodus 20:8-11.

What doesn't read Exodus 20:8-11?

 

[Clare73]

Who would carry out the executions of those who work on the Sabbath?

What does the Scripture say?

 

[Leaf473]

Following up on the idea that

...everything in the law of Moses that isn't a sacrifice or the ten commandments is the law of God.

There is a commandment about putting tassels on our clothes.

That isn't a sacrifice or one of the ten commandments, so it must be the law of God. Relating it to the OP and following the idea that the spiritual doesn't negate the continued need for its physical counterpart, tassels would still be required.

 

[Cornelius8L]

T__ F__ There is a physical component to humans resting on the Sabbath.
T__ F__ Finding spiritual rest in Jesus is no different than drinking spiritual water. Both do not negate the continued need for their physical counterpart.
T__ F__ Resting in Jesus means that humans no longer require any physical rest.

Breaking the Sabbath is inevitable by the design of the commandment if we were priests. In other words, priests exist to break the sabbath, and the commandment is designed to be broken by priests. (Matthew 12:5) There you have it. God instructs the priest to break the Sabbath. Aren't we priests in NT? Also, is there a physical component to OT priests resting on the Sabbath? The answer is no.

I think your question is, “Resting in Jesus means that humans are no longer required to observe the seventh-day rest?” You cannot equate the OT's seventh-day rest to the usual human rest here. So, I believe the questions are misleading.

 

[DamianWarS]

The spiritual rest that Jesus supplies doesn't overturn the physical rest which He also supplies in His once a week Sabbath rest. Compare the following two passages and consider the three color-coded elements and then see if you can answer the related questions:

Matthew 11:28
Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

John 7:37
On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink."​

T__ F__ There is a physical component to humans resting on the Sabbath.
T__ F__ Finding spiritual rest in Jesus is no different than drinking spiritual water. Both do not negate the continued need for their physical counterpart.
T__ F__ Resting in Jesus means that humans no longer require any physical rest.

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

Christ seems to take a different approach

John 4:13,14
Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

Christ is speaking of spiritual water here yet he deliberately contrasts it with physical water and physical needs. his focus is still the spiritual as it's answer.

Matthew 4:4
Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”

When in the desert Christ is tempted with physical nourishment, despite his physical need he continues to point to the spiritual. He does not negate the need but he also has no interest in dwelling on it and instead uses to it point to the spiritual which is the role of the physical in scripture.

John 3:6
Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

Christ tells Nicodemus that only the spirit can give birth to things of the spirit and the physical to the physical. if we seek physical rest perhaps we will find it, but we can only get a physical product. if we seek spiritual rest through Christ then the product will be spiritual.

Perhaps the OT is more to your liking?

Isaiah 40:31 - but they who wait for the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings like eagles; they shall run and not be weary; they shall walk and not faint.

is this physical or spiritual? it uses a fusion of the two, using the physical to point to the spiritual. this is the role of the physical. the law is the physical counterpart, and it points to Christ, the spiritual counterpart. They are in agreement and proclaim the same message. The message is not about the physical, it is the spiritual through the physical. The 10 commandments were physical, written on stone tablets, placed in a wooden box and kept in an inner sanctuary of a temple housing the very presence and power of God. Where are those tablets now? where is the ark? where is the temple? They are all no more, so where does God reside now?

2 Corinthians 4:6-7
“Because the God who said, Out of darkness light shall shine, is the One who shined in our hearts to illuminate the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God and not out of us.”

We are the ark and the holy of holies today. We contain the fire of the burning bush that Moses was drawn to. The Spirit of the living God has written law upon our hearts, not made in stone and static, but living and dynamic.

we are physical beings thus need the physical to sustain ourselves. I get that, but when challenged with real physical needs Christ deemphasizes the physical to point to the spiritual. His own death on the cross is victory through the death of the physical. Christ himself is the sent physical that bridges us to the spiritual. A focus on the physical through the Sabbath will only give you a physical product. As good or as needed as that may be it cannot give us the spiritual rest that Christ offers which is sort of the point. We cannot partake of God's rest through physical means, we must go through Christ. We may seek physical rest on the Sabbath, but it cannot give us anything but physical rest.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Isaiah 40:31 - but they who wait for the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings like eagles; they shall run and not be weary; they shall walk and not faint.

I recall running with my dog shortly after I had completed a 3 day compete fast, which was the last of a series of shorter fasts over several months. I didn't tire. It was as if my body couldn't tire. I ran so lightly that it was almost like flying. I also experienced a tremendous sense of God's presence in everything. I was raised to a higher spiritual consciousness. Such is the power of fasting.

 

[Icyspark]

Christ seems to take a different approach

John 4:13,14
Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

Christ is speaking of spiritual water here yet he deliberately contrasts it with physical water and physical needs. his focus is still the spiritual as it's answer.

Hi DamianWarS,

Christ takes a different approach to what? Your text reference above only reenforces the point I'm making in the opening post. Spiritual water doesn't overrule the need for physical water. This is exactly my point so I'm uncertain what you mean by "Christ seems to take a different approach."

Matthew 4:4
Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”

When in the desert Christ is tempted with physical nourishment, despite his physical need he continues to point to the spiritual. He does not negate the need but he also has no interest in dwelling on it and instead uses to it point to the spiritual which is the role of the physical in scripture.

I don't think you made the point you think you're making. How do you suppose that the role of the physical is to point tot he spiritual? Your John 3:6 reference below would appear to contradict this premise. Flesh and Spirit are different.

John 3:6
Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

Christ tells Nicodemus that only the spirit can give birth to things of the spirit and the physical to the physical. if we seek physical rest perhaps we will find it, but we can only get a physical product. if we seek spiritual rest through Christ then the product will be spiritual.

Yes, this is correct.

The opening post points out that one can't claim that "resting in Jesus" overturns the physical necessity for rest that Jesus provides once a week in His holy day (Isaiah 58:13).

[snip]
we are physical beings thus need the physical to sustain ourselves. I get that, but when challenged with real physical needs Christ deemphasizes the physical to point to the spiritual. His own death on the cross is victory through the death of the physical. Christ himself is the sent physical that bridges us to the spiritual. A focus on the physical through the Sabbath will only give you a physical product. As good or as needed as that may be it cannot give us the spiritual rest that Christ offers which is sort of the point. We cannot partake of God's rest through physical means, we must go through Christ. We may seek physical rest on the Sabbath, but it cannot give us anything but physical rest.

After a lot of disconnected thoughts this last paragraph appears to be an attempt to bring your ideas back into focus with regard to the OP. But as the OP points out, there is a physical component to rest, just as there is a physical component to our need for food and water. You don't get to just arbitrarily dismiss the need for physical rest while continuing to embrace your need for physical food and water.

Let me just paraphrase your stated position above to illustrate the point:

A focus on the physical through [food and water] will only give you a physical product. As good or as needed as that may be it cannot give us the spiritual [food and water] that Christ offers which is sort of the point. We cannot partake of God's [food and water] through physical means, we must go through Christ. We may seek physical [food and water], but it cannot give us anything but physical [food and water].​

Sounds rather odd when I put it like that, doesn't it?

God bless.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark