Spiritual vs Physical

[Icyspark]

The spiritual rest that Jesus supplies doesn't overturn the physical rest which He also supplies in His once a week Sabbath rest. Compare the following two passages and consider the three color-coded elements and then see if you can answer the related questions:

Matthew 11:28
Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

John 7:37
On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink."​

T__ F__ There is a physical component to humans resting on the Sabbath.
T__ F__ Finding spiritual rest in Jesus is no different than drinking spiritual water. Both do not negate the continued need for their physical counterpart.
T__ F__ Resting in Jesus means that humans no longer require any physical rest.

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The term rest is a shortened version of the term arrest. Abstain is a better term nowadays. We usually get enough rest from daily activities through nightly sleep. Many of the proscriptions attached to the Sabbath were ritual in nature. The new covenant replaces the ritual with the actual. In that sense many of the commandments were also ritual, to be replaced with the actual with the help of the Holy Spirit.

For example, if your minister insists that you stop lying, cheating, stealing, murdering, abusing your parents, etc. before he would baptize you, you would likely be incredulous. You may harbor some thought of committing some of these offenses, but until you are baptized and receive the Holy Spirit and grow spiritually you are likely to retain those thoughts.

Jesus came to "magnify the law and make it honorable". Magnify means "enlarge", meaning that the written law was limited. "Honorable" raises it to a higher moral level. The commandments written in stone are limited to the death of the offender. "The letter is death, but the spirit gives life". This must be applied to the Sabbath command as well as the others. Most of the commandments are straightforward and clear. The Sabbath commandment is vague and leaves room for interpretation. "Remember" the Sabbath, and "keep it holy" are given without detailed instructions, as are implicit in most of the others.

 

[Bob S]

The fact is that the New Testament makes it very clear that no one is now under the laws of the old covenant. We are free to choose when we need or want to rest. We do not need a law to tell us when or where. The old covenant Sabbath law also said that the Israelites were to labor six days. Seems like no one who promotes Sabbath observance regards that command. I wonder Why?

OldWiseGuy brought up a good point about very few instructions in the command and also there are very few in the book of the Law which most Sabbath observers believe were nailed to the Cross. All this creates quite a conundrum now, doesn't it?

 

[Icyspark]

The term rest is a shortened version of the term arrest. Abstain is a better term nowadays. We usually get enough rest from daily activities through nightly sleep. Many of the proscriptions attached to the Sabbath were ritual in nature. The new covenant replaces the ritual with the actual. In that sense many of the commandments were also ritual, to be replaced with the actual with the help of the Holy Spirit.

For example, if your minister insists that you stop lying, cheating, stealing, murdering, abusing your parents, etc. before he would baptize you, you would likely be incredulous. You may harbor some thought of committing some of these offenses, but until you are baptized and receive the Holy Spirit and grow spiritually you are likely to retain those thoughts.

Jesus came to "magnify the law and make it honorable". Magnify means "enlarge", meaning that the written law was limited. "Honorable" raises it to a higher moral level. The commandments written in stone are limited to the death of the offender. "The letter is death, but the spirit gives life". This must be applied to the Sabbath command as well as the others. Most of the commandments are straightforward and clear. The Sabbath commandment is vague and leaves room for interpretation. "Remember" the Sabbath, and "keep it holy" are given without detailed instructions, as are implicit in most of the others.

Hi OldWiseGuy,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Unfortunately your post doesn't overtly address the substance of what you're responding to. I'm addressing the issue of whether one can be consistent in their spiritualizing away the physical aspect of the rest which the Sabbath provides by appealing to Matthew 11:28 but then not likewise doing so with the physical needs of the body for food and water in John 7:37?

Matthew 11:28
Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

John 7:37
On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink."

T__ F__ There is a physical component to humans resting on the Sabbath.
T__ F__ Finding spiritual rest in Jesus is no different than drinking spiritual water. Both do not negate the continued need for their physical counterpart.
T__ F__ Resting in Jesus means that humans no longer require any physical rest.​

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

 

[Bob S]

Hi OldWiseGuy,

T__ F__ There is a physical component to humans resting on the Sabbath.​

There is a physical component to resting every day or any day. We are not under the old covenant laws, so how could we be under the law of keeping a special day??? The new covenant gives us the ability to choose for ourselves. The fact is that one is free to pick Saturday if that is what they choose. For a Sabbath observer to tell others they too must observe the day or face the consequences is outright blasphemy. Nowhere in the New Testament does it ever tell us such a thing.

​

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The fact is that the New Testament makes it very clear that no one is now under the laws of the old covenant. We are free to choose when we need or want to rest. We do not need a law to tell us when or where. The old covenant Sabbath law also said that the Israelites were to labor six days. Seems like no one who promotes Sabbath observance regards that command. I wonder Why?

OldWiseGuy brought up a good point about very few instructions in the command and also there are very few in the book of the Law which most Sabbath observers believe were nailed to the Cross. All this creates quite a conundrum now, doesn't it?

Working six days back then was necessary for survival. Today it is very helpful for success.

 

[Clare73]

The spiritual rest that Jesus supplies doesn't overturn the physical rest which He also supplies in His once a week Sabbath rest. Compare the following two passages and consider the three color-coded elements and then see if you can answer the related questions:

Matthew 11:28
Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

John 7:37
On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink."​

T__ F__ There is a physical component to humans resting on the Sabbath.
T__ F__ Finding spiritual rest in Jesus is no different than drinking spiritual water. Both do not negate the continued need for their physical counterpart.
T__ F__ Resting in Jesus means that humans no longer require any physical rest.

None of which has to be on the seventh day of the week.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Hi OldWiseGuy,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Unfortunately your post doesn't overtly address the substance of what you're responding to. I'm addressing the issue of whether one can be consistent in their spiritualizing away the physical aspect of the rest which the Sabbath provides by appealing to Matthew 11:28 but then not likewise doing so with the physical needs of the body for food and water in John 7:37?

Matthew 11:28
Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

John 7:37
On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink."

T__ F__ There is a physical component to humans resting on the Sabbath.
T__ F__ Finding spiritual rest in Jesus is no different than drinking spiritual water. Both do not negate the continued need for their physical counterpart.
T__ F__ Resting in Jesus means that humans no longer require any physical rest.​

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

Yes, physical rest is vital in keeping the Sabbath. And, we are able to actually do it as there is no need for the tiring rituals that were once attached to it, including the additional labor of the 'preparation' day.

It is doubtful if those who kept the OC Sabbath actually got much real rest. I was in a Sabbath keeping church for 25 years. It was very exhausting for everyone, especially families with small children. Sunday (or one's day off) became the actual day of rest for most.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

None of which has to be on the seventh day of the week.

The seventh day is 'holy time' set aside for our benefit. As the seventh day is the official day of rest you will likely get better rest on that day than any other.

 

[Clare73]

The term rest is a shortened version of the term arrest. Abstain is a better term nowadays. We usually get enough rest from daily activities through nightly sleep. Many of the proscriptions attached to the Sabbath were ritual in nature. The new covenant replaces the ritual with the actual. In that sense many of the commandments were also ritual, to be replaced with the actual with the help of the Holy Spirit.

For example, if your minister insists that you stop lying, cheating, stealing, murdering, abusing your parents, etc. before he would baptize you, you would likely be incredulous. You may harbor some thought of committing some of these offenses, but until you are baptized and receive the Holy Spirit and grow spiritually you are likely to retain those thoughts.

Jesus came to "magnify the law and make it honorable". Magnify means "enlarge", meaning that the written law was limited. "Honorable" raises it to a higher moral level. The commandments written in stone are limited to the death of the offender. "The letter is death, but the spirit gives life". This must be applied to the Sabbath command as well as the others.

Most of the commandments are straightforward and clear. The Sabbath commandment is vague and leaves room for interpretation. "Remember" the Sabbath, and "keep it holy" are given without detailed instructions, as are implicit in most of the others.

There are explicit instructions in Exodus 16:23, Exodus 20:10, Exodus 23:12, Exodus 31:15, Exodus 35:2-3, etc.

 

[Clare73]

The seventh day is 'holy time' set aside for our benefit. As the seventh day is the official day of rest you will likely get better rest on that day than any other.

Sunday is even better.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Sunday is even better.

You will not find that in scripture.

God deemed the seventh day is the day of rest, which Hebrews 4:4 reminds us of this important fact. It's not up to us to decide how we should obey God when He left us such clear instructions.

Genesis 2:1-3 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Hebrews 4:10 tells us we must also cease from our works as God did from His- on the seventh day as the scriptures shows.

Hebrews 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

To enter into the rest in Christ one must also cease from their works as God did from His.

When did God cease from His works? This very passage tells us:

Hebrews 4:4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”;

It really can't be anymore clearer unless one is trying to miss it.

There remains a Sabbath keeping for the people of God. Hebrews 4:9

There is no scripture that says we receive the rest in Christ by selecting a day of our choice or His rest is every day. I am so thankful for a God who gives us such clear instructions so we will not be deceived.

God only blessed one day, He only made holy one day and there is only one day of rest according to God and that is the seventh day Sabbath, the holy day of the Lord thy God Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13 and we are made in His image to follow Him. All other days God deemed as working days Exodus 20:9

 

[Clare73]

You will not find that in scripture, which is probabll.
God deemed the seventh day is the day of rest,

God deemed the seventh day of rest because he rested on the seventh day.

which Hebrews 4:4 reminds us of this important fact.

Hebrews 4:3-4 likewise reminds us that God's rest is full-time, and that
we enter into God's own full-time rest.

It's not up to us to decide how we should obey God when He left us such clear instructions.

Agreed. . .and those instructions are found in the NT.

Genesis 2:1-3 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Hebrews 4:10 tells us we must also cease from our works as God did from His- on the seventh day as the scriptures shows.

Hebrews 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

To enter into the rest in Christ one must also cease from their works as God did from Him.

When did God cease from His works? This very passage tells us:

Hebrews 4:4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way:
“And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”;

It really can't be anymore clearer unless one is trying to miss it.

It is likewise clear that it was full-time rest from all his works, as is our salvation rest in Christ.

And in terms of being the "official day of rest," Sunday is better in the U.S. because it is generally considered not a work day, as Saturday often is.

There remains a Sabbath keeping for the people of God. Hebrews 4:9

There is no scripture that says we receive the rest in Christ by selecting a day of our choice or His rest is every day.

Hebrews 3:7-4:11 presents God's own full-time rest to the people of God in the salvation rest in Jesus Christ, from our own works to save, and in Christ's work which saves.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

In terms of being the "official day of rest," Sunday is better in the U.S. because it is generally considered not a work day, as Saturday often is.

There remains a Sabbath keeping for the people of God. Hebrews 4:9

There is no scripture that says we receive the rest in Christ by selecting a day of our choice or His rest is every day. I am so thankful for a God who gives us such clear instructions so we will not be deceived.

God only blessed one day, He only made holy one day and there is only one day of rest according to God and that is the seventh day Sabbath, the holy day of the Lord thy God Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13 and we are made in His image to follow Him. All other days God deemed as working days Exodus 20:9

Yes, that will probably happen that the official day of rest will be on Sunday. its already in law in some states and what the pope has been working on for a while so we will hear much more about this in the years to come. But as followers of Christ, Jesus told us we are not to take the wide path, but the narrow path and to follow the commandments of God over the traditions of man. Matthew 15:3-9. Sunday-keeping is not a commandment of God, but a tradition of man, but Sabbath-keeping is one of God's commandments personally written by God's own finger. Exodus 20:8-11 Exodus 31:18 We should always obey God over man.

 

[Clare73]

Yes, that will probably happen that the official day of rest will be on Sunday. its already in law in some states and what the pope has been working on for a while so we will hear much more about this in the years to come. But as followers of Christ, Jesus told us we are not to take the wide path, but the narrow path and to follow the commandments of God over the traditions of man. Matthew 15:3-9. Sunday-keeping is not a commandment of God, but a tradition of man, but Sabbath-keeping is one of God's commandments personally written by God's own finger. Exodus 20:8-11 Exodus 31:18 We should always obey God over man.

The NT presents freedom from observing feasts, holy days and Sabbaths.

And the NT instructs not to forsake our assembling together.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

God deemed the seventh day of rest because he rested on the seventh day.

Hebrews 4:3-4 likewise reminds us that God's rest is full-time, and that we enter into God's own full-time rest.

Agreed. . .and those instructions are found in the NT.

In terms of being the "official day of rest," Sunday is better in the U.S. because it is generally considered not a work day, as Saturday often is.

Hebrews 3:7-4:11 presents God's own full-time rest to the people of God in the salvation rest in Jesus Christ, from our own works to save, and in Christ's work which saves.

Lets quote some of these passages to see if it says what you're trying to make it say:

Hebrews 4:3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:
“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”;

Does not say this....

Hebrews 4:3-4 likewise reminds us that God's rest is full-time, and that we enter into God's own full-time rest.

Instead, it says the seventh day is the day God ceased from His works and Hebrews 4:10 reminds us that we must cease from our works the same day God did from His- on the seventh day- not "everyday". You are adding words that are not there.


Hebrews 3:7-4:11 does not say God's rest is full-time either and we no longer have to keep the Sabbath commandment. This is a warning to those who do not obey God and are in rebellion and disobedience to not harden their hearts to God, what there were disobeying was the Sabbath.


Hebrews 3:15 while it is said:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”

It does not say "today" is the day of rest. It clearly said today if you hear His voice- do not harden your heart.

Hebrews 4:6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience,

This is a warning we should be careful not to enter into His rest by disobedience and hardening our hearts.

What were they disobedient to whom it was first preached and did not enter into Christ rest?
The Sabbath. Which is what Hebrews 4 is about, keeping the Sabbath Hebrews 4:9 just as God did Hebrews 4:4, Hebrews 4:10, not spiritualizing it so it's no longer a commandment of God. This is not a teaching of the scripture and is a man-made teaching leading people away from God.

Ezekiel 20:13 Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in My statutes; they despised My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them’; and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them in the wilderness, to consume them.

Hebrews 3 and 4 is a warning that we shouldn't follow the same path of disobedience

Hebrews 4:11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.

I will leave this scripture to those who has ears and want to hear God's Truth as it is plain to see.

I won't further respond on this topic, because it typically ends with us just repeating ourselves and I think the scriptures speak for themselves and you have not provided one scripture where it plainly says "everyday" is the day of rest or we choose which day to rest, which is the opposite of Hebrews 4:4, Exodus 20:8-11 and Genesis 2:1-3.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The NT presents freedom from observing feasts, holy days and Sabbaths.

And the NT instructs not to forsake our assembling together.

The weekly Sabbath is not a yearly feast and has nothing to do with food/drink or sacrificial offerings. It is the holy day of the Lord thy God Exodus 20:10, Genesis 2:1-3, Isaiah 58:13 that was part of Creation before sin entered. The yearly sabbath feasts that have to do with the sacrificial system after the fall of man all point to Jesus as He became our sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sin and sanctification when we turn from sin and walk with Him in obedience.

The Sabbath commandment is part of a unit of Ten Exodus 34:28 that God placed together so man cannot separate, written by the finger of God and it is what points out sin. 1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7 there is no scripture that says we are free to break the commandments of God. James quotes right from this unit of Ten saying you break one of these commandments you break them all. James 2:10-12

 

[Icyspark]

None of which has to be on the seventh day of the week.

Hi Clare73,

That's not the point of this thread.

Would you care to respond to the simple true or false questions posed in the opening post?

T__ F__ There is a physical component to humans resting on the Sabbath.
T__ F__ Finding spiritual rest in Jesus is no different than drinking spiritual water. Both do not negate the continued need for their physical counterpart.
T__ F__ Resting in Jesus means that humans no longer require any physical rest.

God bless!

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

 

[Clare73]

Hi Clare73,
That's not the point of this thread.
Would you care to respond to the simple true or false questions posed in the opening post?

T__ F__ There is a physical component to humans resting on the Sabbath.
T__ F__ Finding spiritual rest in Jesus is no different than drinking spiritual water. Both do not negate the continued need for their physical counterpart.
T__ F__ Resting in Jesus means that humans no longer require any physical rest.

When you respond to the simple true or false question posed in my post:

T__F__ You have stopped beating animals.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

There are explicit instructions in Exodus 16:23, Exodus 20:10, Exodus 23:12, Exodus 31:15, Exodus 35:2-3, etc.

Who would carry out the executions of those who work on the Sabbath?