Spiritual Abuse

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I'm trying to imagine what a church would be like devoid of all those bullet points. Maybe a giant room full of fluffy hypoallergenic bunnies where everyone just pets them and thinks happy thoughts. We certainly couldn't teach anything Biblical. I mean, the first two points eliminate that all together.

The enemy of Christ has been trying to eliminate the true believers ever since the first century.
The assemblies where there is no abuse are few and far between also, as has been true throughout history since the first century also.
Where disciples are trained right,
"teaching everything Biblical",
in the way they should be, like Jesus' disciples were, abuse is dealt with instead of tolerated or ignored.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Can't an abusive husband use the verse that women should submit to their husband to dictate what she cooks, wears, or where she goes?

Sure,
but a true and faithful man can also,
but won't "use the verse" to do so - won't have to.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

(How many churches do you know of that reliably have James 5:14-15 results?)

Many small ones. Even in the U.S.A. , though not as frequent as in countries where they are persecuted.
=====================

We need the Lord to raise up and bring such people to us

"We" should be such people, (and we are, where-ever there are 2 or 3 or more gatherd together in His Name to talk about Him).
========================

Unfortunately, my experience is that less than 1% of churches’ congregations have filled their life with obedience to Jesus

Wonder why ? (maybe 2 quotes down?)
===========================

We are all sinful people and affected by sins we didn’t commit, including pastors.

Not quite.
===========================

And don’t feel bad if you can’t walk the path of the cross.

What does Jesus in the BIBLE Say about taking up one's cross every day to follow Him ?

Does YHWH (GOD) ever make it optional ? (hint:no)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

How can the church prevail against the evil one, when the evil one has the church's leaders pridefully doing his bidding?

Easy.
When "ekklesia" is understood. (i.e. 'church' is not a business, but is all the people who follow Jesus no matter where they are - the "set apart" (holy) ones born again by the Father's Will, not by man's will or efforts.)

So then 2 or 3 together, ekklesia, can meet in a 'church' building with a group,
and pray, and be led by God, and learn what to do, as God directs their steps in line with His Spirit and His Word, always. (daily, refreshingly, wonderfully, graciously)
Perhaps it will lead to / result in / REVIVAL?
Perhaps God has something else planned?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The social hierarchy in any Christian organization is the same as any barnyard pecking order. Most people want to stay in line.

As written in the BIBLE, in ekklesia, the weakest one, the poorest members, are raised up, not pecked.
And the rich rejoice in being brought down. They find JOY and PEACE and RIGHTEOUSNESS every day flowing as they live as God says, instead of grumbling and abuse and anger and sin.

 

[Greg J.]

@yeshuaslavejeff, you are frequently contrarian which isn't helpful to anybody. It is often accompanied by not trying very hard to see what others are writing in a good light, and then frequently misunderstanding what they were trying to say. Asking questions or being gracious would go a long way to getting people to receive what you have to say, oh, and to be obedient to God.

Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone. (Colossians 4:6, 1984 NIV)

It would be typical for you to respond with asserting that Paul wrote that about "outsiders" because you lean toward interpreting Scripture by the letter. However, that would be an hermeneutical error ("how much more" argument).

"We" should be such people, (and we are, where-ever there are 2 or 3 or more gathered together in His Name to talk about Him).

True. Good luck then imparting +20 years of spiritual maturity to your congregation, instead of asking God to send help to your congregation.

Wonder why ? (maybe 2 quotes down?)

Of course that's the reason. Good luck changing it noticeably in others to a noticeable degree. However, if that's the attitude you have, it means you first need to take the plank out of your own eye.

Not quite.

Everyone has been profoundly and massively affected by the sins of others. Adam would be a good example, so would one's parents, and, well, whoever has a sinful nature.

What does Jesus in the BIBLE Say about taking up one's cross every day to follow Him ?

Does YHWH (GOD) ever make it optional ? (hint:no)

I didn't suggest it was optional (or not optional). I suggested to not be self-condemning about it, and to take the next small step that God wants one to take.

 

[Greg J.]

Yes, that's the drawback with a non-denominational church.

Some non-denominational churches. People these days are too unwilling to agree to submit to anyone's authority, sometimes for reasons that aren't that bad (note the topic of this post). The governing structure in many churches gives them a way to deal with such a pastor. There is a big spiritual price to pay for it, but I can't say it is always a bad idea due to the spiritual immaturity of so many pastors (Note 1 Corinthians 3:3). Nevertheless, my impression is that the larger denominations have an advantage in this matter (also with a spiritual price to pay).

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

you are frequently contrarian

THANK YOU !
Contrarian
A contrarian is a person that takes up a contrary position, especially a position that is opposed to that of the majority, regardless of how unpopular it may be.More at Wikipedia


The healing needed for spiritual abuse that you post like or about or copy,
requires such.
i.e. Taking up Jesus Word/ Position as YHWH Reveals it,
alway contrary to the majority, and always unpopular not being the way men think,
according to JESUS OWN WORD and YHWH'S SCRIPTURE , and REVELATION.

 

[Radrook]

I was berated from the platform by a supposedly very mature minister for attending the church meeting without a tie. I was merely an interested person who was taking Bible studies at the time and the embarrassment I felt was very profound. It definitely felt like sadistic abuse. After all, why publicly humiliate a newcomer? Why not simply attribute it to ignorance? A lack of familiarity. Or maybe just the fact that a tie wasn't available at the time.

It also seemed extremely peevish and totally unworthy of his prominent position since it focused on mere outward appearance over what really mattered, the condition of one's heart.

After all, I didn't NEED to be there. I could have been at a bar, at a party, seeing TV, boxing, playing my guitar or engaged in a host of other non-spiritual things available to me at that moment. Yet all he could see was the lack of a tie! After the meeting I mentioned it to the brother who was giving me Bible studies expecting some empathy and all he glibly said was: "Ï told you that you should wear a tie!"

Should have left that denomination immediately but foolishly persisted.

 

[Open Heart]

Should have left that denomination immediately but foolishly persisted.

It's not the denomination, it's the jerk pastor.

I'm one for dressing up for church, but I would never EVER embarrass someone like that. EVER. Extremely unchristian.

 

[Radrook]

It's not the denomination, it's the jerk pastor.

I'm one for dressing up for church, but I would never EVER embarrass someone like that. EVER. Extremely unchristian.

I agree that it conveys a certain appreciation for the occasion to wear a suit and tie. But as all things that are essentially positive, it can be taken to an extreme and the focus can become Pharisaical. As Jesus pointed out, mercy or empathy and compassion are far more important than meticulous adherence to ceremonial actions of devotion. The Pharisees were very strict in washing their hands when about to eat. But their attitude towards the common people whom Jesus considered as sheep without shepherds was cruel as their following response demonstrates.

John 7:49

49And these people who don't know the Law are under God's curse anyway.”

Matthew 9:36
New International Version
When he saw the crowds, he had compassion on them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I'm writing an article on spiritual abuse. My husband and I encountered it in a church we tried, and I later experienced it on (another) Christian forum.

I've found the authoritarian abuse by leaders in varying positions in the church and on forums, is often confusing, and we don't recognize what it is right away. Sensitive spirits are wounded by professing Christians, who don't seem to care that they inflict pain, and insist their hurtful actions shouldn't be questioned.

It is my belief that spiritual abuse is a severe form of pride, and is a sin and that Christian leaders will do almost anything to keep their sin, and the truth about themselves hidden.

I did cursory research and learned that spiritual abuse is widespread, and I'd like to get feedback from other believers, as to whether they have experienced it or not. I'm including some signs of spiritual abuse:

The following are several signs of spiritual abuse:

• Stating personal religious convictions and preferences as fact for everyone
• Religious convictions and preferences are stated as black and white
• Requirements for church attendance
• Dress and clothing requirements (appearance is a priority)
• Closed minded about different interpretations of Scripture
• Misinterpretations of scripture
• Questioning the leaders is discouraged
• Judging others
• Excessive gossip
• Hostility towards “heathens” and others who are not believers
• Only people who go to a certain church are believers
• Only reading a certain Bible version is allowed
• Sexuality is seen as dirty, bad, and/or sinful
• Strict discipline standards for children
• Promoting spanking above all other forms of discipline
• Guilt trips for taking vacation and missing church
• Teaching Tithing
• Emphasis on traditions
• Music standards
• Performance appraisals
• Push towards perfection
• Required devotional or quiet time
• Levels or degrees of spirituality
• Focusing on the penalty for sinning
• Emphasis on God “chastening” you
• Looking down on people who have left the church or denomination
• Requiring a refusal of medical services
• Required membership
• Discarding psychology
• Mental health issues are considered sinful or non-existent
• Depression/Anxiety considered a sin
• Your not spiritual enough if something bad happens to you
• God is judging you for sin in your life
• Being told “You need more faith” or “You don’t have enough faith”
• Child discipline tactics that include warnings about God’s wrath
• Rigid black and white thinking/answers to questions
• Too much emphasis on the spiritual and not enough emphasis on the physical
• Fears about the punishments of God
• Negative messages about sexuality
• Taught to deny the apatites of the body
• Emphasis on reading the Bible and praying heavily to appease God and avoid punishment
• Messages that you aren’t spiritual enough
• Your “suffering” (whatever it may be) is a result of some sin in your life
• Your physical illness is punishment for some sin in your life

Many of those describe a psycholgical cult.

 

[Traveling teacher]

I believe it is very difficult to determine a controlling group cult.....
It depends on the person attending and the leadership....

With every heavy handed Moses pastor there is a similiar Aaron pastor who lets people in the church do crazy things wo order and caos and rebellion occurs.......idols are built....

I was raised in a really strict church invironment decided to take my family out 20 years ago and the new church was not always orderly...
I had some major issues in my family with my daughter.....
The new freedom church was extremely reluctant to intervene......
after we almost had a split in our family they finally did intervene......
i have seen some of the most abominable sins in church under the name of freedom.....

We would label Paul a dictator or controlling....with the way he cracked down on Corinth but it had to happen as there was much caos...and rebellion
reread pauls rules for the NEW REFORMED CHURCH AT CORINTH....! I Corinthians

If God led you out of this church then great....find a new church pray for the pastor and submit to his authority........
but remember the trend of many churches in america is to distort freedom and use it as a license to sin........

In other words moving from Pastor Moses to Pastor Aaron is not all its cracked up to be!

 

[Traveling teacher]

Hi Jay,

I smiled at your depiction of fluffy white rabbits. Of course there has to be order in church. But ~At what point is a line crossed?~

It seems the list is too comprehensive. I'll look for a better one.

The experience I had at a church, was three pastors who deeply hurt someone I care about. It's complicated, but to condense it, the leaders ostracized her because she had attended Catholic school. I hadn't known how anti-Catholic they were, and it confused me. The pastors deeply hurt my friend, without remorse, which puzzled me because Christ's central message is love.

When I questioned the pastors' actions, they told me they were the church leaders, and that God put them in that position. They refused to discuss their decision; it was cut and dry - they held the position and they held the power. They presumed their decisions were inerrant, and the three of them supported each other in this belief (something I noted: there are usually two or more people involved in spiritual abuse who feed off each other. In both times I encountered spiritual abuse, the leaders refused to discuss their decision with other believers, or agree to additional oversight by impartial believers.)

Those pastors basically destroyed my friend's faith - who now refuses to go in any church but a Catholic church, if she goes to any at all. I later read the term for it: spiritual abuse.

Angeltrue

I dont know the details of this church discipleine on your friend.........
But apparently that is the root of the problem that your friend didnt feal accepted because she was cqrholic??
Need to know what the pastos said to her?
Was she asked to leave?
Pastors are pastors of the flock that is their job.....
If they percieve a teaching or visitor that they perciev to be leading people aay from the flock they ar suposed to step in!!!
I am kinda in the dark here but my input is that either her as a person or her teaching was not in accord with their vision and they spoke out on it???
Or they may have spoken against false teaching in the catholic church that she was offended by.....??????

I have taught in public school and now christian school and have had many parents who disagree!!!!
You also had 2-3 dsruptive kids in your sunday school class that some of the parents aparently did not like the way you handled it!!!!!
So you must understand how pastors are trying to protect!

The next time you run into a disagreement with a pastor...
You must have first been praying for him..
Show proper respect for them...1 timothy 5:17
Talk to your husband and stay away from gossip.eph. 4:29
So that you do not stir up discord....proverbs 6:19

Then and only then your must have 2-3 witnesses and sciptures........1 timothy 5:19.
To bring an acusation against a pastor
In some cases it is best f you and your husband go talk to them together, however in this case since she was a personal and you took an offence in a personal way....
It would have been best if you express your concerns to your husband and he and 1-2 other men can get scriptures to talk to the elders in a humble way.........

Leaving a church on bad terms is like a divorce that you cannot move on until you forgive and ask God to bless them.......

From this point on you need to pray and forgive those men less a root of bitterness come in........
Hebrew 12:5 ..many become defiled

 

[angeltrue]

Angeltrue

I dont know the details of this church discipleine on your friend.........
But apparently that is the root of the problem that your friend didnt feal accepted because she was cqrholic??
Need to know what the pastos said to her?
Was she asked to leave?
Pastors are pastors of the flock that is their job.....
If they percieve a teaching or visitor that they perciev to be leading people aay from the flock they ar suposed to step in!!!
I am kinda in the dark here but my input is that either her as a person or her teaching was not in accord with their vision and they spoke out on it???
Or they may have spoken against false teaching in the catholic church that she was offended by.....??????

I have taught in public school and now christian school and have had many parents who disagree!!!!
You also had 2-3 dsruptive kids in your sunday school class that some of the parents aparently did not like the way you handled it!!!!!
So you must understand how pastors are trying to protect!

The next time you run into a disagreement with a pastor...
You must have first been praying for him..
Show proper respect for them...1 timothy 5:17
Talk to your husband and stay away from gossip.eph. 4:29
So that you do not stir up discord....proverbs 6:19

Then and only then your must have 2-3 witnesses and sciptures........1 timothy 5:19.
To bring an acusation against a pastor
In some cases it is best f you and your husband go talk to them together, however in this case since she was a personal and you took an offence in a personal way....
It would have been best if you express your concerns to your husband and he and 1-2 other men can get scriptures to talk to the elders in a humble way.........

Leaving a church on bad terms is like a divorce that you cannot move on until you forgive and ask God to bless them.......

From this point on you need to pray and forgive those men less a root of bitterness come in........
Hebrew 12:5 ..many become defiled

It wasn't to do with her "leading" anyone astray - it was that church's staunch belief that because "they" were the pastors "their" decisions was sacrosanct - no one could question them.
The incident with the disruptive children was in another "independent" church. I think you are right about praying for those who abuse their position, but I found sometimes one has to disengage from them - and leave the church. I have found hypocrisy in every church we've gone to - the independent churches seem to be the worst. I think hypocrisy is why not many young people attend church. They see right through it.

 

[angeltrue]

I believe it is very difficult to determine a controlling group cult.....
It depends on the person attending and the leadership....

With every heavy handed Moses pastor there is a similiar Aaron pastor who lets people in the church do crazy things wo order and caos and rebellion occurs.......idols are built....

I was raised in a really strict church invironment decided to take my family out 20 years ago and the new church was not always orderly...
I had some major issues in my family with my daughter.....
The new freedom church was extremely reluctant to intervene......
after we almost had a split in our family they finally did intervene......
i have seen some of the most abominable sins in church under the name of freedom.....

We would label Paul a dictator or controlling....with the way he cracked down on Corinth but it had to happen as there was much caos...and rebellion
reread pauls rules for the NEW REFORMED CHURCH AT CORINTH....! I Corinthians

If God led you out of this church then great....find a new church pray for the pastor and submit to his authority........
but remember the trend of many churches in america is to distort freedom and use it as a license to sin........

In other words moving from Pastor Moses to Pastor Aaron is not all its cracked up to be!

I grasp what you're saying - the churches today are filled with sin - I've seen so much go on in churches that it's almost laughable when you hear holier-than-thous in the church pointing fingers at the "heathen" of the world. I knew leaving the church that hurt my friend was the right decision, although in the beginning it was confusing. I contacted pastors online, and the one pastor cut right through the confusion, and said he would not want to belong to a church like that. He said their ways drove people away rather than drawing them to Christ. I think the warning to leaders is obvious - but I've encountered the same abuse - to a lesser extent - in a number of churches we tried. I think you have to be cautious where you intend to put down roots. I would not want to go through that experience again.