Specific questions about Mary.

[Robskiwarrior]

Hi again - from my other thread I would just like to ask a few more little things

Someone said:

"Mary never sinned"

I have never heard that before - what are peoples thoughts on it?

And someone else said (basicly):

She has a huge womb because she contained the uncontainable.

(they said it alot more poeticly than me )

Any thoughts?

Personally I dont believe that Mary never sinned, she was human, secondly I dont believe that she has a huge womb to contain the Uncontainable - because the Uncontainable confined Himself to human form. Just my thoughts

 

[JacktheCatholic]

How is it going 'Robskiwarrior'?

I figured I would give this a shot but question why none of the many here have not responded to you since I know there are a lot of good people here???

First off I did not read the other thread and have no clue what you are talking about with the "huge womb".

But to understand Mary you have to understand the prophesies from the Old Testament regarding Mary. You need to understand how the Old Testament and New Testament mesh together. You need to know of the early church writings and the tons of research already done that has taken many life times to put together.

Suffice it to say that there is no quick and easy answer and if one truly wishes to know then the answers are out there but you will have to put some time in to it and avoid the Anti-Catholic sites for a time being and check out the historical and biblical facts on your own.

That said, here is my short and sweet answer on Mary being without sin.


We know Mary was sinless when Gabriel visited her for he said she is "Full of Grace" which is saying she is without sin and that includes 'original sin'. We also know God protected the Arc of the Covenant from all stain and we know that Mary was the Arc for Jesus and thus God would have protected her from stain as well. But consider as well that Mary is the mother of our Lord Jesus. God taught us to honor our parents, so how much more would Jesus honor his mother than any of us mere humans? Also consider that God was sharing Mary's life and blood the whole time she was pregnant so how much more would Mary need to be with out sin?

Start here and do some of your own research without all the biased opinions of people and see where it leads you.

God Bless and Peace,

Jack

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

She has a huge womb because she contained the uncontainable.

(they said it alot more poeticly than me )

They probably did mean it poetically. I hope...

The general idea is that all who are in Christ are contained within that which Virgin's womb contained. As the children of God, we are all the children of Holy Mother Mary.

 

[Robskiwarrior]

How is it going 'Robskiwarrior'?

I figured I would give this a shot but question why none of the many here have not responded to you since I know there are a lot of good people here???

First off I did not read the other thread and have no clue what you are talking about with the "huge womb".

But to understand Mary you have to understand the prophesies from the Old Testament regarding Mary. You need to understand how the Old Testament and New Testament mesh together. You need to know of the early church writings and the tons of research already done that has taken many life times to put together.

Suffice it to say that there is no quick and easy answer and if one truly wishes to know then the answers are out there but you will have to put some time in to it and avoid the Anti-Catholic sites for a time being and check out the historical and biblical facts on your own.

That said, here is my short and sweet answer on Mary being without sin.


We know Mary was sinless when Gabriel visited her for he said she is "Full of Grace" which is saying she is without sin and that includes 'original sin'. We also know God protected the Arc of the Covenant from all stain and we know that Mary was the Arc for Jesus and thus God would have protected her from stain as well. But consider as well that Mary is the mother of our Lord Jesus. God taught us to honor our parents, so how much more would Jesus honor his mother than any of us mere humans? Also consider that God was sharing Mary's life and blood the whole time she was pregnant so how much more would Mary need to be with out sin?

Start here and do some of your own research without all the biased opinions of people and see where it leads you.

God Bless and Peace,

Jack

Thanks man - yea im just trying to find where people stand in regaurds to Mary... I have not really ever looked into it before.

I dont get how Gabriel saying to Mary you are "Full of Grace" means she is sinless though, maybe you can explain that more? To me it would mean that the Grace of God was on her, that He had chosen Her for an awesome task through His own Grace.

I don't believe God protects people from sin, because that would take away the freewill to sin. I dont believe Mary needed to be sinless, as blood does not carry sin.

Anyway, maybe if you dont mind, you could expand a little you seem to be good at explaining

 

[Robskiwarrior]

They probably did mean it poetically. I hope...

I went and found the link from the other thread.

She contained the Uncontainable. She is more spacious than the Heavens.

That is one reason she is special.

http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=32993790&postcount=4

maybe she was being poetic? I dont know I have never heard of that before though...

 

[jeffweeder]

I'm sorry but Mary was just an ordinary faithfilled woman who desired to please God. There's a lot of people like that.


Consider that very little is said about Mary in the Gospels, and once she is mentioned in the acts of the Church--she was praying -with the men Jesus hand picked to carry his life to the world.

When Mary is mentioned, this is what i noted;

she doesnt understand what her son of promise was doing staying behind without telling them.They had to travel a day, before they realised he had stayed behind.

I'm a father, and if my son did something as arrogant as that, i would have said what Mary said---"why do you treat us this way".

But in this case Jesus is Correct.
"Didn't you know I had to be in my Fathers house?

Make no mistake, but it sounds as if Jesus is telling Mary that she is being a little ignorant about it....


I note Joseph's faith of Marrying Mary, thanks to the same Angel, and then keeping her a virgin till she gave birth to Jesus. I believe this is still a world record for a newlywed couple to abstain.
But the text very strongly implies that they did have normal relations with each other after this.

LUKE 8
19 And His mother and brothers came to Him, and they were unable to get to Him because of the crowd.
20 And it was reported to Him, "Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, wishing to see You."
21 But He answered and said to them, "My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it."

I thought this a little rude, But Mary would have agreed--she had been doing this, thats why God found favour with her, but the point is that he puts all the faithful in the same class.

I dont believe God was fully present in Marys womb.
Jesus had the Spirit descend on him much later in life.

34 Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I am[24][Lit know no man ] a virgin?"
35 The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.

Whatever is born of flesh is flesh.

jn 3
6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit

It wasnt until the Father spoke and the Spirit descended like a dove on him was Jesus able to enter into his ministry and fulfill the promise given to Mary by Gabriel

"Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.
21 "She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins."

 

[Asinner]

From the Divine Liturgy of St. Basil the Great, written in the 4th century:

All of creation rejoices in you, O Full of Grace, The assembly of Angels and the race of men. O Sanctified Temple and Rational Paradise! O Glory of Virgins! From you, God was incarnate and became a child, our God before the ages. He made your body into a throne, and your womb He made more spacious than the heavens. All of creation rejoices in you, O Full of Grace! Glory to you!

This type of icon is also sometimes called Platytera (Greek: Πλατυτέρα, literally wider or more spacious); poetically, by containing the Creator of the universe in her womb, Mary has become Platytera ton ouranon (Πλατυτέρα των Ουρανώ&#957: "More spacious than the heavens". This type is also sometimes called the Virgin of the Sign or Our Lady of the Sign, a reference to Isaiah 7:14.

Love,
Christina

 

[Asinner]

As for her Purity and sinlessness, we can look at another ancient hymn from the Church from the Divine Liturgy of John Chrysostom also written in the 4th century.

It is truly meet and right to bless you, O Theotokos, Ever blessed and most pure, and the Mother of our God. More honorable than the Cherubim, and more glorious beyond compare than the Seraphim, Without defilement you gave birth to God the Word. True Theotokos, we magnify you!

Love,
Christina

 

[Robskiwarrior]

Thanks for all your views guys - very interesting.

In reply to Asinner - I would never base what I believe on Hymn, no matter how old... but I can see your point.

So it seems to have run dry - so thanks alot for all your posts

 

[Asinner]

Thanks for all your views guys - very interesting.

In reply to Asinner - I would never base what I believe on Hymn, no matter how old... but I can see your point.

So it seems to have run dry - so thanks alot for all your posts

The hymns are based on Holy Tradition, on Truth. As are icons, the Liturgy, the Sacraments, the Holy Scriptures. They have one source, which is Christ.

Love,
Christina

 

[Robskiwarrior]

The hymns are based on Holy Tradition, on Truth. As are icons, the Liturgy, the Sacraments, the Holy Scriptures. They have one source, which is Christ.

Love,
Christina

hehe then we agree to disagree

 

[Epiphanygirl]

Thanks for all your views guys - very interesting.

In reply to Asinner - I would never base what I believe on Hymn, no matter how old... but I can see your point.

So it seems to have run dry - so thanks alot for all your posts

All the anicent hymns, icons, etc......you will find these same held beliefs with the ECF......Early Church Fathers....
May God bless you abundantly in your search for truth and understanding of these things.