Speaking in Tounges

[aggie03]

I have always been told that speakin gin tounges was not biblical. Can anyone tell me if it is or not?

thanks

Yes, I can tell you . It seems as if there has been quite a bit of discussing going on here, and I fear that I may have arrived too late to qualify any effect or benefit for you now, if you're still reading the thread, yainrocket, but I will proceed to show you, in a very brief way, why I believe that we no longer need manifestations of the Holy Spirit today.

The very first thing that we have to establish is "What were/are the manifestations of the Holy Spirit for?" In other words, why did God give them to people?

Mark 16:19-20 ASV

So then the Lord Jesus, after he had spoken unto them, was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God. (20) And they went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word by the signs that followed. Amen.

After Jesus appeared the Apostles went everywhere preaching the word of God in order to fulfill the commission given them in Matthew 28:19,20. However, when they left, they weren't working alone. MArk 16:20 says that God was working with them. One of the things that we have to remember is that the Holy Spirit is God. In 1 Corinthians 12 what are commonly referred to as "spiritual gifts" are listed as manifestations of the Holy Spirit. These manifestations were exactly that - a point in time when God manifested Himself in order to prove something that Apostles were teaching.

Imagine that you lived in Briton during the first century and were unfamiliar with any of Judaism. One day someone shows up wanting to tell you about God. He proceeds to tell you a great deal of wonderful and seemingly fantastic stories - so naturally, having no knowledge of anything that's happend concerning the Christ, you wouldn't believe him - that is until God manifested Himself before you. The person that was talking to you walks around behind you hut to the family graveyard and raises your grandfather from the dead - who has been dead for 15 years!!! Now you would believe him!!!

Hebrews 2:1-4 ASV

Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things that were heard, lest haply we drift away from them. (2) For if the word spoken through angels proved stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompense of reward; (3) how shall we escape, if we neglect so great a salvation? which having at the first been spoken through the Lord, was confirmed unto us by them that heard; (4) God also bearing witness with them, both by signs and wonders, and by manifold powers, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to his own will.

This verse makes the exact same point that we just talked about.

What was the purpose of these gifts then? You see, the overriding will of God in all things is that everyone should be saved (1 Timothy 2:3,4) and that no one would perish (2 Peter 3:9). God loves the world so much that He sent Jesus to die so that those who would be obedient through belief would be saved (John 3:16-21, John 14:15, John 15:14). The reason for these gifts then was so that people could be saved - they were to offer proof that the things the Apostles taught were indeed the commandments of God (1 Corinthians 14:37).

This is the substance of chapter 13 in 1 Corinthians. The last verse in chapter 12 says that Paul is going to show them a better way. He then goes on to talk some of the different manifestations of the Holy Spirit all the while explaining to them that these things only revealed the Truth in part. Basically, this means that when one person received a revelation, they were not given the entire word of God, for example. This was a way of teaching that was imperfect, or incomplete, or in part. Paul is promising them a better way - so what is it?

Jude 1:3 ASV

Beloved, while I was giving all diligence to write unto you of our common salvation, I was constrained to write unto you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered unto the saints.

****
Here we learn that there was a faith, a deposit of knowledge, a group of things we should know and believe, that was given.
****

2 Timothy 3:16-17 ASV

Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness. (17) That the man of God may be complete, furnished completely unto every good work.

****
The deposit of faith that was given was written down by the Apostles and holy prophets. When we read the things that they wrote, we don't need anything else to do the things that God wants us to do.
****

Ephesians 3:4 ASV

whereby, when ye read, ye can perceive my understanding in the mystery of Christ;

****
When we read the things that Paul wrote, we can understand everything that Paul understood concerning the mystery, things that were being revealed, about Jesus.
****

The way it stands is that we have been given in the things that the Apostles and holy prophets wrote the deposit of faith. This is all that we need to do any good work that God has for us. This includes preaching to others and sharing the gospel of Christ - we can prove Christ's existence, that He was the Son of God, from the Bible.

If we can do these things now any time, any place with the Bible, and the Bible gives us everything that we need, not just part of it, then we do really have the better way that Paul was talking about in 1 Corinthians 12:31.

If we have the best way to do something, why would we use anything else? This is why God has said in 1 Corinthians 13:10 "but when the perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away." Since we have the perfect, or complete, revelation of God's word in the Scriptures we no longer need any of the manifestations of the Holy Spirit to prove anything - we can just use the Bible!

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Speaking in tongues is not Biblical. It is actually a thing called Glossalia that even Mormons, Atheists, and Agnostics have been observed doing. I believe that the tongues in the Bible in Acts was merely the apostles speaking in different languages by the power of God to help spread the Gospel to those who didn't speak Aramaic. Then again, maybe it never happened.

Ok, you have to clue me in on this one. I don't know what you mean. I was lds for 28 years and Mormons do NOT speak in tounges. Their idea of "tounges" is the same as yours, they believe it is just God giving someone the ability to speak a different language to spread the gospel. They believe this mostly applies to their Mormon missionaries. In the very first few years of the Mormon church, many spoke in tounges but not sense then.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Mod Hat


I do apologize for popping in earlier and saying no debating. I was thinking this thread was the other one.

However, while you may debate in here, it is important to show respect for your fellow brother's and sister's. This can be done without telling someone they are doing things of the devil and vise versa telling them they are not filled with the Holy Spirit. I am not speaking to anyone in particular but to all in general. Be kind. . .it is one of the fruit of the Spirit.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

If we have the best way to do something, why would we use anything else? This is why God has said in 1 Corinthians 13:10 "but when the perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away." Since we have the perfect, or complete, revelation of God's word in the Scriptures we no longer need any of the manifestations of the Holy Spirit to prove anything - we can just use the Bible!

This seems to be a common interpretation of this scripture. However, it does not make sense.

In 1 Cor 13:8 there are 3 things listed as everntually passing away. 1)prophecies, 2) tongues, 3) knowledge. IF prophecies and tongues have passed away then we would have to logically conclude that knowledge has also passed away.

Since no 2 people on earth seem to agree on the interpretation of the Bible, I seriously doubt that it is the "perfect" being referred to here. God IS perfect though and when Jesus "come's" back then that which is perfect is come. Not until then.

You say we don't need any manifestations of the Spirit? What about love, joy, peace, gentleness, longsuffering, gentleness, etc.? Those are all manifestions of the Holy Spirt. If one is not filled with the Spirit it is clearly seen in the non-manifestion of these fruit.

I still very much need the Holy Spirit to make intercession for me. 1 Cor 14 says that this gift of tongues is for my private conversations with God. It says that from those private conversations in His language I receive all the strength I need to make it. Yes, I read His word and I am strengthened, however, in my own effort which would be according to only what I understand, I can only go so far. I want to go beyond my human understanding though and speak with Him on His level. I've walked with Him for over 40 years now and I still find immense strength in these times with Him. . .exactly as 1 Cor 14 describes.

 

[Iosias]

This seems to be a common interpretation of this scripture. However, it does not make sense.

In 1 Cor 13:8 there are 3 things listed as everntually passing away. 1)prophecies, 2) tongues, 3) knowledge. IF prophecies and tongues have passed away then we would have to logically conclude that knowledge has also passed away.

Since no 2 people on earth seem to agree on the interpretation of the Bible, I seriously doubt that it is the "perfect" being referred to here. God IS perfect though and when Jesus "come's" back then that which is perfect is come. Not until then.

Prophesy has not ceased and neither has knowledge...they will cease when the perfect comes. However tongues will cease prior to the coming of the perfect and has already ceased. If you say the second advent is the perfect then tongues must cease before that happens.

I still very much need the Holy Spirit to make intercession for me.

So do I.

1 Cor 14 says that this gift of tongues is for my private conversations with God.

No it does not!

 

[SH89]

No it does not!

1 Corinthians 14
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

 

[Iosias]

1 Corinthians 14
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

My comments are in [...]

1 Corinthians 14
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue [gibberish] speaketh not unto men [for they cannot understand him], but unto God [better. 'a false god']: for no man understandeth him [because he is speaking gibberish]; howbeit in the spirit [his own spirit not the Holy Ghost] he speaketh mysteries [nonsense]

 

[SH89]

thats right, your comments. Lets look at the greek words. greek words in [....]

For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men[ anthropos-a human being, whether male or female], but unto God[Theos- spoken of the only and true God strongs 2316]: for no man understandeth[akouo-to attend to, consider what is or has been said] him; howbeit in the spirit[pneuma- The holy spirit. As the Holy spirit gives utterance acts 2:4] he speaketh mysteries[musterion -hidden thing, secret, mystery].

The word God in this verse is not the false God as you pointed out, but Theos the true God.

 

[-LivingStone-]

You said "Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
(1 Corinthians 14:39 KJV)" shews that the gift of tongues is for today but in fact it says nothing of the kind. All it says is "Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues." May be you had better explain how this shews that tongues are for today?

Maybe you better show how you can forbid to speak in tongues.
You have no scriptural backing for it.

The gift is exploited today. Of that there is no doubt.
But to shut down a gift that Paul said not to forbid is disobeying him, isnt it?

Show me where it ended.

And Ill warn you ahead of time, if you use the ''but when that which is perfect has come'' passage, Ill be asking you when we've seen God face to face

But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
(1 Corinthians 13:10-12 KJV)

Until we've seen Him face to face, just as the text plainly shows.

 

[Iosias]

Maybe you better show how you can forbid to speak in tongues.
You have no scriptural backing for it.

The gift is exploited today. Of that there is no doubt.
But to shut down a gift that Paul said not to forbid is disobeying him, isnt it?

Show me where it ended.

And Ill warn you ahead of time, if you use the ''but when that which is perfect has come'' passage, Ill be asking you when we've seen God face to face Until we've seen Him face to face, just as the text plainly shows.

The judgement it was a sign of occurred in AD70 and reading the Holy Bible one can discern that the gift ceased within the time-framework of Acts. It is logical that because tongues was a sign gift it will cease when that which it was a sign for is fulfilled. (AD70). As for when the perfect coming --- note that verse 9 speaks of ONLY prophesy and knowledge as being 'in part' and so we can conclude that tongues will have ceased PRIOR to the coming of the perfect.

So because the Gift of Tongues has ceased I can forbid the practice of the counterfeit tongue in church. I could not ban the use of the real gift because that has ceased!!

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

So because the Gift of Tongues has ceased I can forbid the practice of the counterfeit tongue in church. I could not ban the use of the real gift because that has ceased!!

So you're staking your life on this? God says it's a very serious thing to attribute the things of God to the devil. You seem to be basing your lack of experiencing tongues as proof that it does not exist over real Biblical proof. Since it is something that God and I engage in quite frequently I know for a fact that it does.

 

[Iosias]

So you're staking your life on this? God says it's a very serious thing to attribute the things of God to the devil. You seem to be basing your lack of experiencing tongues as proof that it does not exist over real Biblical proof. Since it is something that God and I engage in quite frequently I know for a fact that it does.

I am not attributing the work of the Holy Ghost to Satan because (a) they are not His work, (b) even if they were I am not saying they necessarily come from satan, and (c) the blaphemy of the Holy Ghost is ascribing the work of the Holy Ghost through Jesus to Satan.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

I am not attributing the work of the Holy Ghost to Satan because (a) they are not His work, (b) even if they were I am not saying they necessarily come from satan, and (c) the blaphemy of the Holy Ghost is ascribing the work of the Holy Ghost through Jesus to Satan.

How do you know? Since you don't speak in tongues you really don't know. However, with this statement you are now saying that those who speak in tongues are going to hell? That's what blasphemy of the Holy Ghost will do. The Bible say's it's the unpardonable sin.

So, if we are "not" going to hell because we speak in tongues then it must "not" be blasphemy. Have you studied the subject for yourself or are you just repeating what you heard and read from someone else?

 

[Iosias]

Since you don't speak in tongues you really don't know.

Experience counts for nothing. The Holy Bible is the foundation for all doctrine.

with this statement you are now saying that those who speak in tongues are going to hell?

I have never said that! What I have said is that to claim that you can speak in tongues is unBiblical.

 

[steelmagnolia]

Speaking in tounges IS biblical, and speaking in tounges IS real. The reason why most people here haven't received the Holy Ghost is because it is hard to open up your heart COMPLETELY.

I recieved the Holy Spirit the very moment I accepted Christ as my Lord and Saviour.
I don't have to speak in tongues to prove I'm a blood bought child of God - born again.

 

[steelmagnolia]

Speaking in tongues is biblical. I think it is seen less often these days. What really concerns me though, is the things I have seen in these forums where people tell new believers or non believers that you have to speak in tongues, or that they don't have the Spirit until they do.
When we give our lives to Him, He gives us His Spirit.
In Him

This is what I was referring to in the above post.
I've had pentacostals tell me that since I've not spoken in tongues that I'm not truely born again.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

This is what I was referring to in the above post.
I've had pentacostals tell me that since I've not spoken in tongues that I'm not truely born again.

While there are some Penticostals who believe that but that is not what Paul says in the Bible. We are saved when we accept Jesus as Lord. Period. If you have not yet done so. Please read 1 Corintians 14 for how Paul describes his use of tongues and it's purpose.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Experience counts for nothing. The Holy Bible is the foundation for all doctrine.

I'm not claiming that experience is proof. I agree wholeheartedly that the Holy Bible is the foundation for all doctrine. However, I have done my homework of studying the Word on my own and not going only by what another person and/or book says...and...I have experience that what I have read in the Holy Bible is in fact reality. Come on AV. . .you did not answer my question. Have you done your own search or are you working of someone else's?

I have never said that! What I have said is that to claim that you can speak in tongues is unBiblical.

When you said that claiming something that is not of God is, that that was blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. According to the Holy Bible which you said your doctrine is based on, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the unpardonable sin. Therefore, you have made the implication that any and all who speak in tongues and believe it is God has blasphemed the Holy Spirit, and therefore unforgiven and going to hell.

 

[LynneClomina]

I am not attributing the work of the Holy Ghost to Satan because (a) they are not His work, (b) even if they were I am not saying they necessarily come from satan, and (c) the blaphemy of the Holy Ghost is ascribing the work of the Holy Ghost through Jesus to Satan.

Luke 11:9 "So I say to you, (REMEMBER, THIS IS JESUS SPEAKING) ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 11 If a son asks for bread (GOOD/GOD)from any father among you, will he give him a stone (BAD/SATAN)? Or if he asks for a fish (JESUS!), will he give him a serpent (DEVIL) instead of a fish? 12 Or if he asks for an egg (LIFE), will he offer him a scorpion (DEATH)? 13 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give THE HOLY SPIRIT to those who ask Him!"

i am thus GUARANTEED that if i ask God for His Holy Spirit, and none other, i will GET NONE OTHER. no matter how it seems to my flesh, i can take that promise to the bank. if i ask God for a fleshly emotional manifestation, yes, i will get just that. but if i ask for God to work in me in whatever way He wants, i will get only Him. and since no one but me can tell what i really asked God for, no one can judge me. as such, i cannot judge what others are experienceing - God or otherwise. it is between them and God, not me. i guard my relationship with God, not theirs.

 

[LynneClomina]

This is what I was referring to in the above post.
I've had pentacostals tell me that since I've not spoken in tongues that I'm not truely born again.

my perspective on this is:

if you are born again of the Spirit, you CAN speak in tongues, but that doesnt necesarrily mean you DO. i think there are various reasons why a person may not "figure out" how to do it, how to release it in their lives, maybe fear or prejudice, etc. but that doesnt mean they are not born again.