Speaking in Tounges

[oworm]

Does it?

By implication of your own words from a previous post.


"As someone who is a strict cessationist I wish to say "hogwash". Cessationism is an essential and is therefore a separating issue."

 

[Iosias]

Hmmmm...well that cessationism is a separating issue and I find it strange that a Calvinist disagrees with me on that.

 

[oworm]

Hmmmm...well that cessationism is a separating issue and I find it strange that a Calvinist disagrees with me on that.

Disagreed? I neither agreed nor disagreed ! Neither did i state my position on cessationism. I merely asked questions and noted responses. Your assumptions of me are based on..................Assumption !

 

[Iosias]

Do you disagree that cessationism is a separating issue?

 

[oworm]

Do you disagree that cessationism is a separating issue?

Is it important for you to know my answer to that question?

 

[ShaunJ]

I hate to ask this because I feel like I should know it.

What is cessationism? Doesn't that mean to stop?

 

[Iosias]

I hate to ask this because I feel like I should know it.

What is cessationism? Doesn't that mean to stop?

Cessationism is the belief that the sign-gifts of the Holy Ghost have ceased.

 

[Terral]

Hi Yanirocket:

Rocket asks >> I have always been told that speakin gin tounges was not biblical. Can anyone tell me if it is or not?

The signs and wonders associated with the Holy Spirit offering the ‘good news of the kingdom of God’ (Acts 8:12) ceased almost 2000 years ago. What did Paul say?

“Love never fails; but if {there are gifts of} prophecy, they will be done away; if {there are} tongues, they will cease; if {there is} knowledge, it will be done away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part; but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.” 1Cor. 13:8-10.

The ‘perfect’ here represents the completed canonized Text of your New Testament. Tongues is listed among those partial things that would cease.

Many people have the wrong idea about this gift of tongues. The fact that tongues is not vain babbling is taught in your Bible. Peter’s entire discourse of Acts 2 was spoken in tongues. The key here is that all of these Jews heard in the language of their native tongue.

“And when this sound occurred, the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language.” Acts 2:6.

"And how is it that we each hear {them} in our own language to which we were born?” Acts 2:8.

So, if your own language happens to be modern English, then that is exactly what you should hear in the presence of real Biblical ‘tongues.’ Vain babbling that you hear among the Pentecostals is just that. When you hear a message in English, and the German person next to you hears it in German, then you are in the presence of the real Biblical tongues.

Great signs and wonders are not part of this dispensation of God’s grace. Paul writes,

“For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he {already} sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it.” Rom. 8:24+25.

Remember that our ‘faith’ to believe the gospel is the gift of God (Eph. 2:8+9), and “we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace.” Rom. 5:2. Therefore (and this is key), those who seek to add even a single work to the finished work of Christ on the cross never receive that most vital gift of faith. And that is why you see people desperately seeking signs, wonders and miracles. They must see and hear the physical evidence, because of their lack of faith.

God bless,

Terral

 

[Adammi]

I would reccomend reading the following book it is excellent on the subject, a true supporter...
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The Bible.

 

[Hisgirl]

All of you who say there are verses to say the gift of tongues has passed might be interested to know that the the Reverand Billy Graham said in his book The Holy Spirit that he can find not one verse to support the idea that tongues has ceased. He also said that any church that forbids tongues is doing the church a disservice and apparantly going against the teachings of the apostle Paul. So for you to have found verses to say the gift has passed....I would suggest you contact the good reverand and let him know he was wrong in his interpretation. I'm sure he would apprecitate it.

 

[Terral]

Hi Hisgirl:

Hisgirl writes >> All of you who say there are verses to say the gift of tongues has passed might be interested to know that the the Reverand Billy Graham said in his book The Holy Spirit that he can find not one verse to support the idea that tongues has ceased.

Many folks hold different views from Rev. Billy Graham. He is the one who preaches that one can pray Jesus into their heart. Please bring someone who shares his views for a friendly debate of God’s Word.

Hisgirl >> He also said that any church that forbids tongues is doing the church a disservice and apparantly going against the teachings of the apostle Paul.

Rev. Graham is speaking against the truth. What does Paul say?

“Love never fails; but if prophecy, they will be done away; if tongues, they will cease; if knowledge, it will be done away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part; but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.” 1Cor. 13:8-10

Perhaps Rev. Graham needed to read 1Cor. 13:8. The ‘perfect’ there is a reference to the completed Word of God. Remember that Paul wrote this letter in about 57 Ad., or about the time of Acts 19. There was no letter to the Ephesians, Philippians or Colossians yet; 1Timothy or 2Timothy, etc. To fill in the gap, God provided these gifts of prophecy, knowledge and tongues. In fact, our New Testament was given to us by God in this way. These twenty seven letters we call the New Testament are from literally thousands of letters that were written by the Spirit of God in the seventy years following the crucifixion. Think about it. That is only one letter for about every three years. People did not have news papers like we have today. News then traveled in letters.

Many have the wrong notion about what Biblical tongues is really about. Christ hand picked a group of fishermen and common folk to take this ‘gospel of the kingdom’ (Matt. 24:14) to the whole world, starting in Jerusalem (Acts 1:8). How is that going to happen, if they only spoke a primitive form a Aramaic? When the Holy Spirit fell on Peter and the others at Pentecost, then the gift of tongues was upon all of them. Peter’s entire Acts 2 discourse was given in tongues. Here is the key:

“And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance. Now there were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven. And when this sound occurred, the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language. They were amazed and astonished, saying, "Why, are not all these who are speaking Galileans? "And how is it that we each hear in our own language to which we were born?” Acts 2:4-8.

The gift of tongues is more a gift of hearing than of speaking. All of the people from different countries heard Peter’s long Acts 2 speech, but all in the language of their native tongue. True Biblical tongues allows people from Germany, England, France, Italy, etc. to all hear the same person speak, but each individual hears their own language. This vain babbling going on in churches across America is not true Biblical tongues. It does not matter what Rev. Graham says, or what his followers believe. Those are the Biblical facts described in Scripture.

Hisgirl >> So for you to have found verses to say the gift has passed....I would suggest you contact the good reverand and let him know he was wrong in his interpretation. I'm sure he would apprecitate it.

Since there are more than 2000 denominations out there, and only one truth, then there is plenty of room for the Billy Grahams of the world to preach and teach just about anything they desire. The bottom line is that you must look for yourself and see what God’s Word has to say. When we stand at the judgment seat of Christ (2Cor. 5:10), to be judged on whether our works in the flesh were good or bad, then we will stand alone. Those among us who are willing to accept second hand preaching and teaching on these vital subjects are taking one whale of a chance that the reward (1Cor. 3:14) may be slim to none.

God bless,

Terral

 

[Yebo]

Greetings from a sunny South Africa

From previous posts it is quite evident that 1 Cor 13:8 is being listed as a verse that indicates that tongues will pass away/ cease “Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away." Note that in this verse 3 aspects are being listed and speaking in tongues are merely one of them whilst it is indicated that all 3 will fail/cease/vanish when the perfect has come (verse 10). Again please note that the requirement for all 3 to fail/cease/vanish is the arrival of "the perfect".

The majority of time when this scripture is being used in this kind of debate, the discussion revolves around “prophecies and tongues and normally never get to knowledge, yet the requirement to fail/cease/vanish remain the same.

Let’s take knowledge this time to prove that tongues still are available! If my information is correct, Paul used the word “gnosis” in the quoted scripture. According to the New Strong’s Guide to Bible Words, the following is given:

“gnw`si"gnoµsis, gno´-sis; from 1097; knowing (the act), i.e. (by impl.) knowledge:— knowledge, science”

According to my Oxford Advanced Learner’s Dictionary of Current English (Published by Oxford University Press, Fourteenth Impression 1981), the following is reflected under KNOWLEDGE: “1. understanding: A baby has no ~ of good and evil. 2. familiarity gained by experience; range of information: My ~ of French is poor. K~ of the defeat soon spread. It has come to my ~ (= I have been informed) that you have been spreading gossip about me. To the best of my ~ (=As far as I know) he is honest and reliable. She married without the ~ of her parents.” (My underlining)

Based then on the scripture quoted above, “understanding” as well as “familiarity gained by experience; range of information” will pass fail/cease/vanish. The question now arises, has knowledge cease to exist. Apparently not, simply because we still have “understanding” as well as “familiarity gained by experience; range of information”. This “understanding” as well as “familiarity gained by experience; range of information” will cease, I agree, but only when Jesus (THE PERFECT) is returning.

"Knowledge can also be defined as the truth or facts of life that a person acquires either through experience or thought. The greatest truth that a person can possess with the mind or learn through experience is truth about God (Ps. 46:10; John 8:31–32). This cannot be gained by unaided human reason (Job 11:7; Rom. 11:33). It is acquired only as God shows Himself to people—in nature and conscience (Ps. 19; Rom. 1:19–20); in history or providence (Deut. 6:20–25; Dan. 2:21); and especially in the Bible (Ps. 119; Rev. 1:1–3).Mental knowledge by itself, as good as it may be, is inadequate; it is capable only of producing pride (1 Cor. 8:1; 13:2).

Moral knowledge affects a person’s will (Prov. 1:7; Phil. 3:11–12; 1 John 4:6). It is knowledge of the heart, not the mind alone. The Book of Proverbs deals primarily with this kind of knowledge. Experiential knowledge is that gained through one’s experience (Gen. 4:1; 2 Cor. 5:21; 1 John 4:7–8).

The apostle Paul’s wish for the church at Colosse was that they might increase in the “knowledge of God” (Col. 1:10).”

Now, if knowledge did not fail/cease/vanish yet based on the fact that Jesus has not yet returned, why would tongues then have ceased based on the same requirement? It just doesn't make sense, does it?

Furthermore, Paul wrote the letter to the church in Corinth "To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints,..." to assist then in a number of aspects, but this letter is also written to " ... with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Cor 1:2&3 (My underlining).

Paul wrote this letter also to me and you and if you call on the name of Jesus then the contents are there for your disposal. What are you doing with it?

 

[aggie03]

Regarding knowledge:

Is not the discussion of 1 Corinthians 13 dealing with spiritual gifts? I believe so. In 1 Corinthians 12, you will notice that one of the gifts that is outlined is the gift of knowledge. 1 Corinthians 13 is not, then, referring to general knowledge, but to the miraculous imparting of knowledge that took place when the spiritual gift referred to as "word of knowledge" was exercised.

This gift, along with the others that is mentioned in 1 Corinthians 13, has passed away.

 

[AllTalkNoAction]

Speaking in tongues is where God's Spirit leads you in prayer (Zech.12v10, Romans 8v26, 1 Cor.14v2, 4, 14-18) because you have allowed Him in to reveal himself to you, and he knows better than us - that's why you don't understand what you say !!

It is and always has been God's sign of entering the new covenant, becoming a son of God (John 3v8, Acts 2v33, 39, Galatians 3v13-15, 4v6).

"The gift of tongues" refers specifically to the meetings-use (giving to the church, 2 or 3 only, each with interpretation) of what all christians have for private use.