Speaking in Tounges

[Abiel]

However, just like legalism can creep into a church and eventually almost take over the work of Christ, sensationalism in the sign gifts can do the same thing to the other extreme. I have watched a pastor really manipulate his congregation because he wanted to lead them into the "power" of the signs and wonders. We all need to be careful that we keep the focus on Christ.

This is very true and works both ways- I know of tongues users who have been labelled demonic. We just cant make a doctrine out of something that boils down to opinion.

 

[Iosias]

1: Hebrews 13:8 "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday today and forever." Revelation 19:13 "He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood and His name is called The Word of God." Revelation 19:16 "And He has on His robe and on His thigh a Name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS." Thus the Word which is Him is the same yesterday today and tomorrow. 1 Peter 2:23 "having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God wich lives and abides forever." Which means that the Word of God is not void but the same for yesterday today and tomorrow.

This does not say "People nowadays can speak in tonges"!

2: 1 Corinthians 12

Where here does it say "It is proof that you have the gifts from the holy spirit"?

3: 1 Corinthians 14:2,4

This does not say that "Speaking in tongues is to get closer to GOD". It says that "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself" Which when you look at the Greek means that he who speaks gibberish (fake tongues) builds up his own reputation i.e. speaking in an unknown tongue (i.e. a fake tongue) is done selfishly and has no place in the church! Verse 2 means that a person who speaks gibberish speaks not to men because they cannot understand the gibberish and so the man speaks to a god i.e. not God but a god...Translated from Theos.

4: 1 Corinthians 14:2 "For he who speaks in a tounge does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however in the spirit he speaks mysteries."

This does not say that "It helps to desguise what you say from the enemy" but it does say that he that uses fake tongues (unknown tongues) speaks mysteries i.e. rubbish.

5: 1 Corinthians 14:15

This does not say that "You dont know what you are saying" but "You know some of what you are saying but not all."

 

[JVD]

AV...there is no way you can prove from scripture that the practice currently known as tongues is not valid. There is also no way the the practicioners can prove it IS valid.

It's just like your believe in the AV...you believe it by faith as they do. When someone believes something by faith and there is not an abosolute against it in scripture, you have to give up and let them believe it.

There is room in the body of Christ for differences in this regard.

 

[cactusj]

Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Does this not say "cannot be uttered"?

Main Entry: 2utter
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English uttren, from utter outside, adverb, from Old English utor, comparative of ut out
transitive senses
1 obsolete : to offer for sale
2 a : to send forth as a sound b : to give utterance to : [size=-1]PRONOUNCE[/size], [size=-1]SPEAK[/size] c : to give public expression to : express in words
3 : to put (as currency) into circulation; specifically : to circulate (as a counterfeit note) as if legal or genuine <utter false tokens>
4 : to put forth or out : [size=-1]DISCHARGE[/size]
intransitive senses : to make a statement or sound

Just asking?

 

[Iosias]

AV...there is no way you can prove from scripture that the practice currently known as tongues is not valid. There is also no way the the practicioners can prove it IS valid.

They cannot prove their argument scripturally yet I can shew the Bible supports cessationism.

There is room in the body of Christ for differences in this regard.

I am afriad that there is not. Most of the tongues people perport to have today come from our enemy.

 

[Iosias]

Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Does this not say "cannot be uttered"?

Main Entry: 2utter
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English uttren, from utter outside, adverb, from Old English utor, comparative of ut out
transitive senses
1 obsolete : to offer for sale
2 a : to send forth as a sound b : to give utterance to : [size=-1]PRONOUNCE[/size], [size=-1]SPEAK[/size] c : to give public expression to : express in words
3 : to put (as currency) into circulation; specifically : to circulate (as a counterfeit note) as if legal or genuine <utter false tokens>
4 : to put forth or out : [size=-1]DISCHARGE[/size]
intransitive senses : to make a statement or sound

Just asking?

To whom is this directed?

 

[cactusj]

Well, anyone, I guess. Paul said the groaning "cannot be uttered" so then speaking in "unknown" tongues couldn't be reference to this, could they? Since Paul said those groanings of our Spirit "cannot be uttered"? To me, that would mean our Spirit is talking to God for us quietly.

 

[Iosias]

Well, anyone, I guess. Paul said the groaning "cannot be uttered" so then speaking in "unknown" tongues couldn't be reference to this, could they? Since Paul said those groanings of our Spirit "cannot be uttered"? To me, that would mean our Spirit is talking to God for us quietly.

I was going to say that Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered is about prayer in general and this passage nicely negates the Chrismatic claim of a prayer language.

 

[cactusj]

That's what it seems to me. With much prayer about this, the Holy Spirit always leads me back to this scripture.

 

[JVD]

They cannot prove their argument scripturally yet I can shew the Bible supports cessationism.

You can show that the Bible says tongues will cease...you cannot show that the Bible says tongues have ceased. You have to make an interpretation here and the other interpretations that contend that the "perfect has not yet come" are just as valid.

I am afriad that there is not. Most of the tongues people perport to have today come from our enemy.

While some of the uses of tongues today may come from the enemy, there is no way you can prove that most of them do. From my point of view, most of the tongues spoken today are a mixture of self-delusion and emotion.

 

[Iosias]

You can show that the Bible says tongues will cease...you cannot show that the Bible says tongues have ceased. You have to make an interpretation here and the other interpretations that contend that the "perfect has not yet come" are just as valid.

A few points if I may:
1. the coming of the perfect is not that which stops tongues read 1 Cor 13:9 carefully! No mention of tongues is mentioned.
2. The Bible says that tongues will cease, it says that this will be prior to the coming of the perfect. the Bible outlines the purposes of the gift of tongues and these purposes have ceased hence the gift must also of ceased.
The argument is simple and easy to grasp...however Charismatics have in the past misrepresented the cessationist case.

 

[-LivingStone-]

Shew me that it is for today!

Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
(1 Corinthians 14:39 KJV)

....

 

[Iosias]

....

You said "Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
(1 Corinthians 14:39 KJV)" shews that the gift of tongues is for today but in fact it says nothing of the kind. All it says is "Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues." May be you had better explain how this shews that tongues are for today?

 

[Abiel]

That's a good one, LivingStone

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

You said "Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
(1 Corinthians 14:39 KJV)" shews that the gift of tongues is for today but in fact it says nothing of the kind. All it says is "Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues." May be you had better explain how this shews that tongues are for today?

Mod Hat

Again, I will point out that the original poster requested NO DEBATING!!!!! That means NO DEBATING! If you are against tongues this particular thread is out of bounds for you. The opinion of those who believe in tongues was asked not the opinion of those who don't. So STOP DEBATING!

 

[Iosias]

Mod Hat

Again, I will point out that the original poster requested NO DEBATING!!!!! That means NO DEBATING! If you are against tongues this particular thread is out of bounds for you. The opinion of those who believe in tongues was asked not the opinion of those who don't. So STOP DEBATING!

This is the original post

Speaking in Tounges

I have always been told that speakin gin tounges was not biblical. Can anyone tell me if it is or not?

thanks

May be you had better shew me where the poster said they did not want any debate?

 

[Sirius]

I am not sure if someone said this but it is not a gift, any one can do it. all you have to do is believe !

Mark 16:

(15)Jesus then said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
(16)He that believeth and is baptized shall be SAVED; but he that believeth not, shall be damned.
(17)And these signs shall follow them that believe;In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
(18)They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; the shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

 

[Iosias]

I am not sure if someone said this but it is not a gift, any one can do it. all you have to do is believe !

Mark 16:

(15)Jesus then said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
(16)He that believeth and is baptized shall be SAVED; but he that believeth not, shall be damned.
(17)And these signs shall follow them that believe;In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
(18)They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; the shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

1. Christians have died from snake bites and drinking poison!
2. This refers to the disciples only.
3. this was fulfilled in Mark 16:20!!

 

[Sirius]

Again

(15)Jesus then said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
(16)He that believeth and is baptized shall be SAVED; but he that believeth not, shall be damned.
(17)And these signs shall follow them that believe;In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
(18)They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; the shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

he is saying that he that believe not just the desciples

as in 17 he says and these signs shall follow them that believe

if christians have died from snake bites and poison it is because they did not TRULY believe, there should be no doubt in your mind

but also do not go out and test this, for he also says that he does not want to be tested.

 

[Iosias]

Again

(15)Jesus then said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
(16)He that believeth and is baptized shall be SAVED; but he that believeth not, shall be damned.
(17)And these signs shall follow them that believe;In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
(18)They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; the shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

he is saying that he that believe not just the desciples

as in 17 he says and these signs shall follow them that believe

if christians have died from snake bites and poison it is because they did not TRULY believe, there should be no doubt in your mind

but also do not go out and test this, for he also says that he does not want to be tested.

Mark 16:20 "And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen." shews us that the scripture you quote was fulfilled. The signs were specifically tied to the commission given to the disciples and this commission was fulfilled hence the signs are no longer required and so ceased to exist any longer.