Yes, you are missing the difference between teaching and arguing, and in spite of my best efforts and better judgement I have been sucked right into it anyway.
I have had people message me privately and sincerely ask for a copy of my manual so they could learn. And I did jump at that chance and share it, because the request was sincere.
As long as I'm sucked in anyway I will provide some answers, but I can't share 12 weeks of teaching in 1 post and given how these things go, I am reasonably certain my response will not be good enough and more "evidence" will be demanded and more needling will happen if I don't provide it. But here goes anyway...
Let's address the 1 Corinthians 14 scripture since you started with that and have used it several times. This will be a look at the chapter in it's entirety, as such I will not post the entire scripture reference, I will proceed straight to breaking it down. Folks can look it up for themselves if they like.
If we are going to point to 1 Corinthians 14 and tongues then we need to look at the whole thing, not just one little piece of it AND we need to realize the context that the Corinthian church was MESSED UP and in need of some serious correction at this time, so....
In 1 Cor 14, Paul states the following about tongues in a corporate “church” setting:
- That we should desire it
- That it edifies the one using it - The closest analogy we have to edifies today would be to “charge up” like a battery. The question is charge up for what?
- He wishes we all would speak in tongues... not that we would all stop
- That it can be interpreted.. Which is another gift (1 Cor 12)
- He does not say it should NOT be done in church, he says he would RATHER the focus on things that bring revelation to the entire congregation
- He goes on to describe (via sounds & instruments) the ineffectiveness of playing those instruments without ORDER and PURPOSE
- Picture everyone bringing their own instrument to church and playing their own song with it… it would not sound good… that doesn’t mean the instrument is bad or shouldn’t be used, it should be used with ORDER and PURPOSE
- Same with tongues, it is never stated it shouldn’t be used, or even that it shouldn’t be used in church, he states he WANTS the church doing it. But the focus during service should be teaching and understanding… in other words don’t interrupt your pastor by praying in tongues, it doesn’t help anyone but you.
- Because of the nature of Paul’s writing here and previously it is pretty clear that there has been a lot of disorder and chaos going on in the Corinthian services and Paul is trying to put and end to that without discouraging the use of the gifts.
- Paul himself apparently does it... a lot!
- Next he says, tongues are a SIGN for unbelievers, the key here is SIGN
- Sign = a) that by which a person or a thing is distinguished from others b) an unusual occurrence transcending the common course of nature
- Next he establishes ORDER for THAT CHURCH including that if there are tongues they should be limited in number and interpreted (note it is being done around other believers)
- Closes out by saying “do not forbid to speak in tongues” but “let all things be done decently and in order”
If we put this all together we see: tongues happening in the church, but not in a way that hinders the ability of others to learn. That it has a positive effect (edification) on the individual using it. But it is NOT something that distinguishes you from other believers but it distinguishes you from unbelievers. Or, more bluntly, “Hey Corinthians! Tongues are good, but they don’t make you more special than your neighbor, so knock it off! Sit down! Listen to your pastor! And don't say anything unless it is beneficial to everyone” (Heck, I've said similar things to my kids)
I personally find your "teaching" to be denomination and very little Scriptural.
You said...………..
"That we should desire it".
First of all, God’s gift of tongues was always
intelligent human languages, dialects, NOT unintelligible utterances.
Then the Bible fact is that of ALL the spiritual gifts, tongues is the one that is to be the least desired.
Not all Christians are given the same spiritual gift nor can we acquire spiritual gifts for ourselves merely because we desire them. God alone assigns spiritual gifts by the Spirit. Simply put, not every Christian has the same gift, and, therefore, it is impossible for every Christian to possess the gift of tongues (see 1Cor 12:30). Therefore, it is wrong for a church to teach believers they can (and must) acquire the gift of tongues, for this is impossible according to Scripture.
According to Paul a Christian cannot obtain a certain spiritual gift that God has not already given, nor can a Christian be "coached" or taught a spiritual gift. Only God appoints spiritual gifts, and, therefore, we will only have the gifts God grants us according to His will at the time of our salvation.
You said...……..
That it edifies the one using it - The closest analogy we have to edifies today would be to “charge up” like a battery. The question is charge up for what?
According to the Bible, tongues was not a gift given to the Church for the edification of believers.
1Cor 14:12...…..
"So it is with you. Since you are eager for gifts of the Spirit, try to excel in those
that build up the church."
So we see that On the contrary, the sign to believers was to be the fulfillment of this prophecy which as I have already posted from the Torah ............
the fulfillment of God's prediction that the Jews would not receive their Messiah.
You then said...…...
He wishes we all would speak in tongues... not that we would all stop.
1st Corinthians 14:18-19...…..
“I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all; yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue".
There was a very real problem in the church at Corinth and it may be summed up in a few words. The saints there were exalting the gift of tongues to the exclusion of other gifts. The irony is that it was actually the least of all gifts (see 1st Corinthians 12:7-10, 28-30).
Paul was inspired to address this problem and in doing so he informs them that though the gift of tongues is important, it pales in comparison to the gift of prophesying. Why? Because when one spoke in a tongue he was the only one being edified (unless one could interpret what he was saying), but when one prophesied the whole church was being blessed with edification, exhortation, and comfort.
Therefore, the utterances we see in todays church are actually a selfish expression.
Based on Paul's teaching in 1Cor 12-14, we learn that the gift of tongues served its prophetic purpose in the first century in fulfilling the Old Testament prophecy, and the gift of speaking in tongues was to diminish in practice except for occasions when an interpreter was present. As Paul wrote, the Spirit will only permit the gift of tongues to be expressed
en masse within the church in the presence of unbelieving Jews (which would be very rare today).
Any other mass expression of tongues simply is not a work of the Spirit, since it contradicts scripture. Furthermore, a Christian may express the gift of tongues individually, but they may do so only in private. If they feel led to share their gift in the gathering, they may only do so when an interpreter is present which is exactly what 1Cor 14:27-28 says.
Once a statement in tongues has been spoken, the church body is to wait for interpretation so they may understand the meaning of the word. If no interpretation is offered, then the one speaking in tongues must remain silent since his expression of tongues has failed the Bible's test and must be considered a false expression (similar to the way all gifts of prophecy must stand a test of accuracy according to 1Cor 14:29).
Now I have no idea what kind of services you see, but every single church event I have attended in the past 50 years, everyone is doing unintelligent utterance all at the same time and no interprets anything.
Knowing that these are God's purpose in the expression of the gift of tongues, we should take a critical view of any congregation that encourages or allows the routine expression of a (supposed) gift of tongues
en masse. If such experiences occur outside the presence of unbelieving Jews (as Paul explained), it is not a true demonstration of tongues. Instead, it is a false, contrived work of the flesh, and it should be avoided by every Christian.
Furthermore, if this experience occurs without an interpreter present, it is further evidence that this expression of tongues is not a work of the Spirit. Lastly, if the church teaches that all Christians can and should speak in tongues, this teaching is false and is not working in the Spirit. Sadly, these mistakes in Corinth continue to occur in many churches worldwide, leading to many fleshly and false rituals without basis in God's word and at the expense of greater gifts like teaching.
Under these circumstances, we must conclude that any mass expression of speaking in tongues (or an individual expression absent interpretation) is a counterfeit display of faked utterances that have been contrived to create the impression of a gift of tongues. Such demonstrations result from willing participants, motivated by peer pressure, deceived by false teaching and ignorant of the biblical truth, trying to acquire something God has not granted. They force themselves to create meaningless chants, which lack true spiritual power and only serve to impress the flesh.
Should I “speak in tongues?”
Then I leave you with all of this information with one simple question.
1 Corinthians 14:34 says...………….
"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says."
MUST ONLY BE MEN SPEAKING IN TONGUES.
When God’s gift of tongues is operating, only men talk with them (verse 34).
So then my question to you is Why are
women talking in tongues today in every single church service?
