Speak lovingly of Mary

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Let me see here.

1. You CANNOT "prove" it from Scripture.

Never said that. What I said was that the CC is not Sola Scriptura. The CC uses both Scritpure and Tradition.

Here's your former position, as stated in # 68, "How ever the Dogma that is being questioned is mentioned by the Church fathers and is in Scripture.

Our friend WarriorAngel posted in # 91, "It's right there in Scripture!"

Now you seem to be saying that it's NOT in Scripture.


I disagree with you that the Catholic Denomination uses it's own Tradition AND Scripture. Here's a classic example of the real rubric of "My Tradition OR Scripture." Because, as you've noted, it's not using Scripture here - just it's own very late Tradition. OR not AND.

2. It's from the 4th Century - at the very, very earliest.

Same time that the Bible was compiled.

Moot. The first Scripture was inscribed about 1500 BC, the last about 90 AD - that makes Scripture 600 to 2100 years older than this rumor. The "compilation" of the Canon began in 1500 BC and was largely finished by 100 AD and entirely finished before ANY meeting of ANY denomination - certainly long before the Catholic Denomination officially embraced it in the 16th Century - some 3000 years after the first Scripture. But it's an entirely moot point.

3. It doesn't come from Scripture, Mary, the Apostles, the earliest Catholic Denomination Fathers or the Early Church.

And the Bible does not come from any of those.

So, you admit that this rumor doesn't come from Scripture or Mary or any Apostle or any earliest Catholic Denominational "Fathers." We agree on that.


Thank you.


Pax


- Josiah





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[NoDoubt]

What a waste of time...

The ones who have trusted in Christ alone for their salvation will be rewarded at the Judgment Seat.

The ones who trusted in mary will deal with God at the Great White Throne and will have to explain why they did not trust in Christ Alone. Plain and simple.

It's up to you.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Off-topic. I apologize...

LLOJ..your avatar and signature are gettng more more disturbing whenever I log on. I only do so once week maybe and I must say I am shocked....

Someone made a thread on my pic of the Cross, Law and Serpent and because a few were "shocked" by it,[mainly Jews and Atheists] I removed it from my Siggy.

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7238619&page=2
Picture: The Scroll, the Serpent, and our Salvation

 

[lionroar0]

What a waste of time...

The ones who have trusted in Christ alone for their salvation will be rewarded at the Judgment Seat.

The ones who trusted in mary will deal with God at the Great White Throne and will have to explain why they did not trust in Christ Alone. Plain and simple.

It's up to you.

Just for the record: We trust in Jesus and honor His mother for having giving birth to God.

The ones that denigrated His mother to a mere vessel will also have to stand in front of His great white throne and have to explain to Him why they did not trust in Jesus and honor His mother like He did.

Peace

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Just for the record: We trust in Jesus and honor His mother for having giving birth to God.

Peace

I prefer to say JESUS myself even though He was also an ELOHIYM like unto Moses.

And who the heck wants to mimic the Muslims

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7244198&page=3
Islam and the Mary/Jesus story

In the Qur'an we read: "They (Jews) said, 'We killed the Messiah Isa the Son of Mary, the Apostle of God' - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them." (Qur'an 4:157).

 

[lionroar0]

Here's your former position, as stated in # 68, "How ever the Dogma that is being questioned is mentioned by the Church fathers and is in Scripture.

Our friend WarriorAngel posted in # 91, "It's right there in Scripture!"

Now you seem to be saying that it's NOT in Scripture. .

I said we are not Sola Scriptura.

We look both to the Bible and Tradition. Tradition is the experience of Christianity that is lived through the Church.

Just as it was a Christian faith that was lived that defined the Trinity. It is the same experience that defined the Dormition/Assumption of Mary. Just as it was the same experience that compiled the Bible.

I disagree with you that the Catholic Denomination uses it's own Tradition AND Scripture. Here's a classic example of the real rubric of "My Tradition OR Scripture." Because, as you've noted, it's not using Scripture here - just it's own very late Tradition. OR not AND.

The very same Tradition that brought you the Bible, Brought us the Dormition/Assumption of Mary. All of the Three Ancient Churches agree on this.

Something that perhaps you should ponder.

Moot. The first Scripture was inscribed about 1500 BC, the last about 90 AD - that makes Scripture 600 to 2100 years older than this rumor. The "compilation" of the Canon began in 1500 BC and was largely finished by 100 AD and entirely finished before ANY meeting of ANY denomination - certainly long before the Catholic Denomination officially embraced it in the 16th Century - some 3000 years after the first Scripture. But it's an entirely moot point.

And it was considered Scripture just as much as the letters of BArnabass, Clement, , Ignaitous(sp?), Polycarp, The Shepers of Hermas, Gospel of Adonai, ect,

If your going to call the documents of the Bible Scripture then you also have to call other documents that are not in the Bible Scripture, because they were treated as Scripture by early christians.

So, you admit that this rumor doesn't come from Scripture or Mary or any Apostle or any earliest Catholic Denominational "Fathers." We agree on that.

Thank you.


Pax


- Josiah

Nope but you keep on trying though if it pleases you.

And according to your logic then Sola Scriptura must be rumor, because it is not in the Bible and it does not come from the Apostles, Mary, and the early church fathers.


Peace

 

[lionroar0]

I prefer to say JESUS myself even though He was also an ELOHIYM like unto Moses.

And who the heck wants to mimic the Muslims

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7244198&page=3
Islam and the Mary/Jesus story

In the Qur'an we read: "They (Jews) said, 'We killed the Messiah Isa the Son of Mary, the Apostle of God' - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them." (Qur'an 4:157).

Not me.

Peace

 

[katherine2001]

Just for the record: We trust in Jesus and honor His mother for having giving birth to God.

The ones that denigrated His mother to a mere vessel will also have to stand in front of His great white throne and have to explain to Him why they did not trust in Jesus and honor His mother like He did.

Peace

! At least those who honor Mary truly understand all the implications of the Incarnation. If Mary was just a vessel that Jesus passed through, but didn't actually contribute anything to Him, then He is not really human, and we are not saved. I look at some of the insulting things that have been said about Mary on the GT board, and I would not want to have to explain why I said such horrible things about His mother, who He loved very much.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

! At least those who honor Mary truly understand all the implications of the Incarnation. If Mary was just a vessel that Jesus passed through, but didn't actually contribute anything to Him, then He is not really human, and we are not saved. I look at some of the insulting things that have been said about Mary on the GT board, and I would not want to have to explain why I said such horrible things about His mother, who He loved very much.

[Ooops NM. Just noticed the title of the thread. I have nothing more to contribute to it. Peace]

 

[Rick Otto]

Someone made a thread on my pic of the Cross, Law and Serpent and because a few were "shocked" by it,[mainly Jews and Atheists] I removed it from my Siggy.

Dude, I told you it was religious porn & I'm neither Jew nor Atheist.
(Do Atheists have denominations? Should we envy their unity? LOL)

 

[Rick Otto]

quote=lionroar0;Just for the record: We trust in Jesus and honor His mother for having giving birth to God.

Shouldn't it be that you honor God for giving Mary His motherhood?

The ones that denigrated His mother to a mere vessel will also have to stand in front of His great white throne and have to explain to Him why they did not trust in Jesus and honor His mother like He did.

A mere vessel is merely honorable, indeed. Trusting in Jesus is a seperate issue. Nobody could honor Mary like Jesus did because nobody else is Jesus.

Still, she's one honorable gal!

 

[jckstraw72]

Shouldn't it be that you honor God for giving Mary His motherhood?

why cant we do both? Both parties played their part -- and all glory is ultimately given to God anyways. A Saint is honored bc of God's grace in their life.

 

[Rick Otto]

why cant we do both? Both parties played their part -- and all glory is ultimately given to God anyways. A Saint is honored bc of God's grace in their life.

Well, I hate to quibble with ya Jack, but giving honor to Mary for giving birth to Jesus is giving her honor for something that was His doing.
Rather as Jesus said, we should give honor to anyone who hears the word of God & keeps it .(Luke 11:28)

 

[sunlover1]

why cant we do both? Both parties played their part -- and all glory is ultimately given to God anyways. A Saint is honored bc of God's grace in their life.

amen, why CANT we do both?
Methinks we DO do both.
Just not as much as others would like perhaps?
Wonder what Father will say.
"sunlover, you did NOT spend time with Mary,
but rather just focused on my Son with whom
I am well pleased, you left out my dear Mary."

I dont see that in light of the whole story.
But we all have choices to make, and I'm
not dissing what you choose, just sharing
it from my pov.

So we gonna discuss mary for two weeks?
Can we have a mariology fellowship thread?
I'm thinking we tried that one time.

 

[lionroar0]

Well, I hate to quibble with ya Jack, but giving honor to Mary for giving birth to Jesus is giving her honor for something that was His doing.
Rather as Jesus said, we should give honor to anyone who hears the word of God & keeps it .(Luke 11:28)

We do. We have many Saints and also many saints.

Peace

 

[lionroar0]

amen, why CANT we do both?
Methinks we DO do both.
Just not as much as others would like perhaps?
Wonder what Father will say.
"sunlover, you did NOT spend time with Mary,
but rather just focused on my Son with whom
I am well pleased, you left out my dear Mary."

I dont see that in light of the whole story.
But we all have choices to make, and I'm
not dissing what you choose, just sharing
it from my pov.

So we gonna discuss mary for two weeks?
Can we have a mariology fellowship thread?
I'm thinking we tried that one time.

Love God and also your neighbor.

I think we will be judged on these of the two commandments.

Peace

 

[WarriorAngel]

I prefer to say JESUS myself even though He was also an ELOHIYM like unto Moses.

And who the heck wants to mimic the Muslims

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7244198&page=3
Islam and the Mary/Jesus story

In the Qur'an we read: "They (Jews) said, 'We killed the Messiah Isa the Son of Mary, the Apostle of God' - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them." (Qur'an 4:157).

If you would like to remove yourself from how the Muslims relate to Jesus - then calling Him God would definitely do that.

Since they do not call Him God.

Furthermore, Jesus is God - He is inseperable as such and we dont need to make a distinction.

And we must be careful not to make the seperation - even in our grimace of calling Him God.
Dont have time to look and see which heretic considered Him seperate.

Just woke up and all. [sorta] Well, i am up but my brain is still in bed sleeping. [ie..too early to think]

amen, why CANT we do both?
Methinks we DO do both.
Just not as much as others would like perhaps?
Wonder what Father will say.
"sunlover, you did NOT spend time with Mary,
but rather just focused on my Son with whom
I am well pleased, you left out my dear Mary."

I dont see that in light of the whole story.
But we all have choices to make, and I'm
not dissing what you choose, just sharing
it from my pov.

So we gonna discuss mary for two weeks?
Can we have a mariology fellowship thread?
I'm thinking we tried that one time.

Well, i dont think i will speculate on judgements.
SInce we are all judged based on what we know.
[pray for me]

And we are given different rewards in Heaven...
SOme will be last - some will be first. [et al]

SO honoring Mary - His Mother might help us in
many ways we just don't see it here on earth.

I believe thru the private revelations since St Luke saw apparitions of Mary to get the Gospel account - that Jesus is very well softened in His Mercy and Jsutice when His Mother speaks up for us at our Judgement.

She may be there saying 'Son, [they] honored me, and loved me because of You.'

And He will say - 'Then, My Mother, whoever honored you in life gets this or that reward in Heaven.'

AND if we decide it doesn't matter - I dont know.

BUT what does it hurt to exalt and honor His Mother as He does?

Mary came to St Luke and showed him the gospel...and we read it as truth.

And Her Magnificat is Gospel truth.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Magnificat


'He exalted the lowly...' 'My soul magnifies the Lord'

God bless.

 

[WarriorAngel]

....And one other thot....

'Leave Me cursed, you have no one to plead by your side for all the sins you commited.'

Could also happen.
Just saying...

Even a Judge can hear witnesses stand up for you. And soften their stance.
NDE's can attest to that. As well as mystics who tasted death for the sake of teaching us what to expect.

And if ya dont want to believe, it is your choice.

But God's mercy is boundless in that He will send messengers.
Always has...
Which the parable He spoke about sending messengers and they didnt believe them and killed them.

Just something to think about.

We are judged on the stubble and hay we built on. Evidently He does judge our sins..
What if the sins out weigh the jewels and gold we built on?

Who will plead for us that we did honor and exaltations?
Those which soften the Lord's heart.

Anyway - i will thank Mary for all my life [i should hope and pray] for helping me see Her Son in ways i could not before.

'Do as He says...'
~ [Wedding of Cana]

 

[MamaZ]

LOL The wedding of Cana is far in the Past and so is Mary. For she is now clothed with her heavenly home awaiting for the day her body will be raised up uncorruptable like the other saints that have went on to be clothed with their heavenly home. The elect are the saints here on earth now. Preaching Christ and Him crucified to the saving of the soul..

 

[sunlover1]

Love God and also your neighbor.

I think we will be judged on these of the two commandments.

Peace

Thank you Lion. Sometimes it gets so dang
confusing reading in CF. Everyone with their
expert opinions and all.

Well, i dont think i will speculate on judgements.
SInce we are all judged based on what we know.
[pray for me]

Arent we judged for what we refused to bother to
know too? (My people die for lack of knowledge)

And we are given different rewards in Heaven...

Something I always forget. Thank
you for that reminder Angel.

SO honoring Mary - His Mother might help us in
many ways we just don't see it here on earth.

I believe thru the private revelations since St Luke saw apparitions of Mary to get the Gospel account - that Jesus is very well softened in His Mercy and Jsutice when His Mother speaks up for us at our Judgement.

She will?

She may be there saying 'Son, [they] honored me, and loved me because of You.'

And He will say - 'Then, My Mother, whoever honored you in life gets this or that reward in Heaven.'

I think it might be more like what Lion said above (Jesus said it first)

AND if we decide it doesn't matter - I dont know.

BUT what does it hurt to exalt and honor His Mother as He does?

That's just it. What does it hurt to honor His mother as He does?
I think some people think blood is thicker than water, wait.. oh nm,
and then others think that it would offend Mary and Jesus too if
we bow to her.
But I agree, we could all be very surprised when we stand before God.
Actually, dunno about you, but I WILL be very surprised. Hope I learn
to keep my robe clean ahead of time. [pray for me]


Guess we're gonna hang out in mariology. ... for two weeks!
I've been busy downloading music to my ipod touch.
Does anyone know if I can transfer music from Itouch
to the other pc... sort of using it as a flash drive?
My son cant seem to find my flash drive that he had in
his messy room.
Anyone know a good place to get lost album art too?
Thank you !
God bless you too Angel.

sunlover