Spare the rod.

[Avid]

BTW, my story, about the grandmother spanking me at 3, happened just to the left of the area of that house in my AVATAR photo! This antebellum home held fond memories from my early childhood.

 

[Avid]

Do you know that caps is considered to be shouting?

Yes, and those preachers would SHOUT the truth about how the love of their parents kept them from Hell in this manner.

One preacher states plainly that he was the only one of five or six children that his mother had to BEAT to get him to go to Church as a child!
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[Hetta]

Yes, and those preachers would SHOUT the truth about how the love of their parents kept them from Hell in this manner.

You're not my preacher.

One preacher states plainly that he was the only one of five or six children that his mother had to BEAT to get him to go to Church as a child!

What a way to show God's love.

 

[Avid]

It is evil to beat a child. Not to mention, an utter failure on the part of the parent.

What we have too much of, in this society these days, is parents who do not spank their child for correction, but wait till they have had more than they can take, and damage or KILL that child.

I have seen a child respond to NOT being beaten, and I know of children who would not respond any other way. It is God's word that causes you trouble, and not my opinion.
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[Avid]

You're not my preacher.

Then don't listen or respond... I pointing out the truth of the scripture, regardless of how it is received. Receiving the truth is between the hearer and God. Telling the truth is between the speaker and the LORD who sent him.

What a way to show God's love.

Seems you are beating your own self here...
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[Hetta]

What we have too much of, in this society these days, is parents who do not spank their child for correction, but wait till they have had more than they can take, and damage or KILL that child.

I have seen a child respond to NOT being beaten, and I know of children who would not respond any other way. It is God's word that causes you trouble, and not my opinion.

I don't have any trouble. I have five great kids who never needed a hand raised to them, but that's because we decided from before the kids were born that they would not be "beaten". They have been encouraged, corrected, loved, and channeled, and they are a testimony to what can be accomplished when parents focus and don't get lazy.

Those who talk about rods and beatings never bothered to think about anything else.

 

[Avid]

I don't have any trouble. I have five great kids who never needed a hand raised to them, but that's because we decided from before the kids were born that they would not be "beaten". They have been encouraged, corrected, loved, and channeled, and they are a testimony to what can be accomplished when parents focus and don't get lazy.

Those who talk about rods and beatings never bothered to think about anything else.

Maybe you can school the LORD who had that penned into the eternal record, and correct His word on the subject.
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[Hetta]

Maybe you can school the LORD who had that penned into the eternal record, and correct His word on the subject.
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We used a rod - it just wasn't a literal rod. It was verbal correction (not abuse), time outs, lost privileges. That is an equally effective rod when used consistently and with understanding and kindness.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

Lol we have been through this before.

Why is it some people take the Bible literal in some parts but ignore the obvious literal points.

Did God literally to use a rod on a child? No! He was speaking of not disciplining your child. Why is it people think you have to strike someone to teach them. Seems to me to be living by the sword.

Are these verses from the Bible teaching that disobedient children should not be severely punished? Is not our God a holy God who cannot tolerate disobedience even in children? Does not God even punish the children of disobedient adults?

Deut. 21:18. "If any man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his father or his mother, and when they chastise him, he will not even listen to them,
19. then his father and mother shall seize him, and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gateway of his hometown.
20. "They shall say to the elders of his city, 'This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey us, he is a glutton and a drunkard.'
21. "Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death; so you shall remove the evil from your midst, and all Israel will hear {of it} and fear.

Exod. 21:15. "He who strikes his father or his mother shall surely be put to death.
16. "He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death.
17. "He who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death.

Prov. 30:17. The eye that mocks a father And scorns a mother, The ravens of the valley will pick it out, And the young eagles will eat it.

2 kings 2:23. Then he went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up by the way, young lads came out from the city and mocked him and said to him, "Go up, you baldhead; go up, you baldhead!"
24. When he looked behind him and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the LORD. Then two female bears came out of the woods and tore up forty-two lads of their number.

Lev. 26:27. 'Yet if in spite of this you do not obey Me, but act with hostility against Me,
28. then I will act with wrathful hostility against you, and I, even I, will punish you seven times for your sins.
29. 'Further, you will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters you will eat.

Deut. 28:53. "Then you shall eat the offspring of your own body, the flesh of your sons and of your daughters whom the LORD your God has given you, during the siege and the distress by which your enemy will oppress you.

Jer. 19:9. "I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they will eat one another's flesh in the siege and in the distress with which their enemies and those who seek their life will distress them."'

Psalm 137:8. O daughter of Babylon, you devastated one, How blessed will be the one who repays you With the recompense with which you have repaid us.
9. How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones Against the rock.

All quotations from Scripture are from the NASB, 1995.

 

[Hetta]

So you think that children should be stoned .. put to death .. have their eyes picked out .. eaten by bears .. have their flesh eaten (by their parents) .. and be dashed against the rocks?

Was any of this done to you?

Doesn't the Bible also say:

"Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven."

"Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven."

"It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones."

This last scripture is in Mark, Luke and Matthew. Seems important perhaps.

 

[Avid]

... That is an equally effective rod when used consistently and with understanding and kindness.

Equal or not, I'll leave that to the LORD.

I have spent time with other people's children, and we were to keep discipline. These were not my children, I never was given permission to spank them, and did not ask. This was a matter of maintaining discipline for a few days, and there were some challenges.

I was ready to give-in on one occasion, since these were not ours, and Mom had said that she needed to pick her battles. I considered that there is NO BATTLE that is not important when showing the principles of right and wrong to a child. As I pondered this, and inhaled to say that the little girl would get away with lying to me, she took that differently, gave in, admitted her wrong, and has shown more love to her guardian since that time.

What you say is not wrong in the essence of how to stand firm with your children. That you defy the truth of the scriptures with opinion is what I have pressed as an issue.
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[Hetta]

What you say is not wrong in the essence of how to stand firm with your children. That you defy the truth of the scriptures with opinion is what I have pressed as an issue.

I don't defy scripture. I interpret it differently to you.

 

[Avid]

I don't defy scripture. I interpret it differently to you.

There is a clear defiance when the scripture says plainly what it means to love your child, and you state that this is evil.

II Peter 1
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
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It is important to believe what the scriptures say. There is a great deal of peace from God when you do this. God honors His word above His name.

Psalm 138
2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
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Be very careful with your defiance against the expressed truth of God.
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[Hetta]

There is a clear defiance when the scripture says plainly what it means to love your child, and you state that this is evil.

It is evil to beat your child.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

So you think that children should be stoned .. put to death .. have their eyes picked out .. eaten by bears .. have their flesh eaten (by their parents) .. and be dashed against the rocks?

The topic of this thread is the meaning of the word “rod” in the following verses:

Prov. 22:15. Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child; The rod of discipline will remove it far from him.

Prov. 23:13. Do not hold back discipline from the child, Although you strike him with the rod, he will not die.

Prov. 29:15. The rod and reproof give wisdom, But a child who gets his own way brings shame to his mother. (NASB, 1995)

It has been said by some of the contributors to this thread that these verses should not be interpreted literally. However, the severity of God in punishing disobedience demands that these verses be interpreted literally. In the Old Testament, the wrath of God upon sinners was swift and extremely severe. In the New Testament, we find the same God and the same wrath, but the wrath is deferred until the final judgment. Everyone who sides with Ann Landers against God Almighty is awaiting the wrath of God at the judgment.

 

[Hetta]

The topic of this thread is the meaning of the word “rod” in the following verses:

Prov. 22:15. Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child; The rod of discipline will remove it far from him.

Prov. 23:13. Do not hold back discipline from the child, Although you strike him with the rod, he will not die.

Prov. 29:15. The rod and reproof give wisdom, But a child who gets his own way brings shame to his mother. (NASB, 1995)

It has been said by some of the contributors to this thread that these verses should not be interpreted literally. However, the severity of God in punishing disobedience demands that these verses be interpreted literally. In the Old Testament, the wrath of God upon sinners was swift and extremely severe. In the New Testament, we find the same God and the same wrath, but the wrath is deferred until the final judgment. Everyone who sides with Ann Landers against God Almighty is awaiting the wrath of God at the judgment.

I don't know who Ann Landers is, but I sincerely hope that you never have any children because what you are advocating for is child abuse.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

I don't know who Ann Landers is, but I sincerely hope that you never have any children because what you are advocating for is child abuse.

According to God, sparing the rod is child abuse! Should we believe God, or should we believe the ambassadors of wickedness that are responsible for the destruction of the family resulting in divorce, suicide, murder, rape, rampant homosexuality, pedophilia, drug abuse, and every other kind of debauchery?

 

[Hammster]

It is evil to beat your child.

Beating, yes. Spanking, no.

 

[Avid]

I have made progress in the LORD by believing His holy word. It is what has kept people in a right relationship with God for thousands of years. To refuse and rebel brings the wrath of God.

Psalm 50
16 ¶ But unto the wicked God saith, What hast thou to do to declare my statutes, or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth?
17 Seeing thou hatest instruction, and castest my words behind thee.

Proverbs 15
32 ¶ He that refuseth instruction despiseth his own soul: but he that heareth reproof getteth understanding.
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Do not despise the instruction of the LORD, or refuse His word.

So you think that children should be stoned .. put to death ...

It is not so important what I think, what Princeton thinks, what Ham thinks, or even what you think. God has written this in His word. Until a person is made right with God, and is adopted into His family as a joint heir with Christ, that person is under the law of God. Every requirement is right and good. As a person sees that, and how OPPOSITE their own heart is from what God wants, they are at enmity with God, and with His law.

Deuteronomy 21
18 ¶ If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
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You tell us that you choose to interpret the scripture differently. How do you interpret this passage? How are you going to employ the elders of your city to put the child into a "Time Out?"

If this says stone him with stones, how do you interpret that to mean something other than rocks or something that can be lifted and thrown by middle age or old men? How do you interpret, "that he die?"

What does "BEAT HIM" and "BEATEST HIM" mean in your interpretation? What does it mean that requires the assurance that it will not KILL the child?

Proverbs 23
13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.
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How do you interpret, "...if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. "

If you love your child, you will do what is necessary to keep them from Hell. Being well behave is important, but the child must be brought up to know and understand the instruction of the LORD. Otherwise, how would you have any influence that might deliver the child from Hell? If you love the LORD, you will endure what is necessary to be right in His sight, also.

Hebrews 12
5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
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The chastening of the LORD sometimes includes scourging. This is a severe beating. The marks of this beating will remain with you all your life. There are many people who like to consider themselves Christians who refuse to submit to God, and are running the other way whenever the very thought of God disciplining them is put forth. (Heb.12:8)
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[Avid]

...Yet what does it mean to use the rod?

Rods are used to punish, they are also used to measure, a concept seen in both Ezekiel and Revelations.
Measuring...examining...determining...all the same general concept...

In what way does measuring your child with a rod require the assurance that it will not kill him?
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