Spanking

[jhco50]

My son is almost 9 and has had maybe 5 spankings. I use a paddle on the outside of his jeans. I paddle him for certain reasons only. Lying is a major offense in my home. If he does something he knows he shouldnt, he gets privledges taken away. But if he LIES about it..he gets a paddleling. He gets 3 swats after which I tell him I love him and that I want him to grow up to be a good man. I always ask him why he was spanked and he has to tell me. That way he knows why its happening. He is one of the few children I know that will NOT lie. I do not tolerate fighting or disrespect either. But I never give more than three swats and I never punish without explanation and lots of love. He has never struggled because if he does he gets an extra swat.

Just do the punishment and don't lecture him afterwards...he is not interested. My stepfather would lecture me for days when I had already ben punished. Punish him and let it be over.

 

[jhco50]

Kimmie, please go to Dr. Dobson's web site at this url:

http://family-topics.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/family_topics.cfg/php/enduser/std_alp.php?p_sid=wL4K8pdh&p_lva=&p_li=&p_srch=1&p_sort_by=&p_gridsort=&p_row_cnt=27&p_search_text=spanking&p_page=1

I spank my children and I used his advice and it works! Never spank in anger. Use a neutral object. Never spank with your hand. The hand should always be used to comfort and show love. Speak words of love to them as you spank. Hug and kiss them afterwards. Always spank on the bare bottom. He says spanking should not continue after the age of 8 or begin before 18 months. Lots of good advice from Dr. Dobson.

My son tried to wiggle and squirm, but I just held him tightly so he couldn't move. I usually just had to spank one time sometimes two. Once I heard the tears I knew it was time to stop. Although the tears are there as you're getting ready, you know which tears I'm talking about. Not the ones to get out of being disciplined. Now my son will just come and pull down his pants willingly and lie across my lap when it's time for a spanking. I'd say I've only had to spank him about 10-15 times and he's now 7. My daughter has learned from her brother. She's 3 1/2 and has been spanked maybe 3 times. As soon as I tell her she is going to be spanked she obeys. Same with my son. Funny how they do what you tell them when they know something bad is going to happen.

I don't agree with Mr. Dobson on most issues. BTW, I don't believe he has a doctrate in anything. He has become wealthy, though. He lives in a gated community near Gardon of the Gods here in the Springs.

 

[Raithlin]

I don't agree with Mr. Dobson on most issues. BTW, I don't believe he has a doctrate in anything.

About Dr. James C. Dobson Ph.D... For 14 years Dr. Dobson was an Associate Clinical Professor of Pediatrics at the University of Southern California School of Medicine, and served for 17 years on the Attending Staff of Children's Hospital of Los Angeles in the Division of Child Development and Medical Genetics. He has an earned Ph.D. from the University of Southern California (1967) in the field of child development. He is a clinical member of the American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy, a licensed psychologist in California, and is listed in Who's Who in Medicine and Healthcare.

I got the above from Dr Dobson's bio on family.org.

 

[Funkmd]

1. Should a hand or object be used? What object do you use to administer a spanking?

The hand is a direct connection to mommy and daddy hitting them with themselves. Using an instrument to do the deed seperates the two.

Wooden spoon is a good stinger. rubbermaid or wooden spatula too.
Later on when they are bigger a belt is good.

My cousin made a swatter from a length of leather and a hack saw blade.
He covered the blade in the leather and bound it and crafted a handle for it. It looked very proffesional like you would have bought it at a store or something. While it was a very effective instrument and small and convienient for travel, I thought it a bit cruel that he wasted his time (which his children so desperately desire) crafting an instrument for discipline.

2. Should it be done over clothing or bare bottom? Some say it's more effective bare bottom.

Bare bottoms, gets a good sting going, plus you know exactly where your blow will fall, if you can't see you may just be smacking them on their legs and not know it. Which is quiet painful and cruel

3. How many swats should be given? When do you stop the spanking?

Pain threshold assesment is key here. Every child will be different, and every child will be crying on the first swat, so good luck on that one. If you stick to the buttocks you'l be fine.

4. What do you do if they try and kick and get away during a spanking?

Gotta hold 'em down. I was always told not to move or I might injure myself more by making dad hit my leg or something. Of course I always squirmed, so a Good stong forearm across the back does a good job.


From a previous post of mine:

As with any tool you use, you have to know how to use it. If you love your children and you are a true follower of Christ you will do fine.

My father used to smack my butt till I was almost biting a hole in the bed mattress. At least that's what it felt like.

It was always very structured:
He showed me in scripture where our Lord told us to do this
He always told me when I was getting one
He always told me why I was getting one
He never spanked while he was angry
He always did it just on my butt, never anywhere that could be damaged by a blow.
He never exceeded spanking more than was necessary
He always told me it hurt him more
He always cried when he was done, and sometimes during.
He always held me and cried with me afterward, and told me how much he loved me.


Once I had taken my licks I was free to go, no grudge, no hardfeelings, my offense was paid for, and I couldn't be held responsible for it anymore.
We could be father and son again and play catch or do whatever (sound familiar?)



Looking back, it was very good for me.

I respected my father, and knew I couldn't give mom the shaft while dad was away at work.
I knew I had to be a man like my father, more importantly I had to be that man when he wasn't around.
I knew just how much he loved me by the emotion he showed during these times.
I knew just how much he loved mom, by what he was willing to do to protect her honor.
I knew he absoloutly hated to do it.
I knew that I had created a debt, and taken responsibility for my actions like a man has to do for the rest of his life.
and lastley I knew not to do it again.

I wasn't ever wooped for anything petty either. It would be mostly for direct disobediance of orders (I was a bullheaded jerk), destruction of property, hassleing my mother to tears, that kind of stuff.
In fact I don't think I got a "GOOD" spanking, but a few times. The other ones were usually administered by my mom with a wooden spoon, just a swat on the butt here and there or whatever, but for the major ones I got the whole pomp and circumstance tour down the hall with dad.



My father was the son of an alcoholic, and had many family problems. He received many brutal beetings with no love involved and never with any care for his health or body.

I think this played a key role in shaping how he would administer the woopins. I'm sure in his heart he never wanted me or my brother to feal the emotional pain and scars of an undeserved spanking or rather a full on "@**-beating" without love and direction being the motive.


~

 

[mcb1998au]

I have a 5 year old son and i have never and will never ever physically punish him i believe it is abuse. How degrading for the child to have the ones they love (mum, dad) to humiliate them in this way. I think it will mentally scar them for life and i refuse to be a part of it. There are other more effective ways for punishment. I know a day of been banned of his playstation or no pocket money for the week will be far more punishing to him than physically abusing him. Just my opinion.

 

[hunterchad'smom]

Wow. I just joined this forum and it hit on a subject a friend and I discussed last night. A few months ago her 12 year old son and my 9 year old son were playing with another child. The "other' child told my son that if he said the"B" word that he would tell him how to win at a video game. my son asked"Do you mean B----?" The 12 year old and the other child began laughing and my 9 year old son ran to me crying that he said bad word. I punished all involved by taking away their McDonald's Happy Meal toys that I bought immediately before the incident. She said her child knows not to cuss but he doesn't know not to laugh at people when they cuss. She said that he has probably never wanted to bring toys to my house since because he thinks I will take them away. I gave her 3 different examples of toys he has brought to my house since. I asked her why he wants to come over all the time if the incident was so difficult for him to handle and why he didn't tell her. She is the type of parent who smacks her children and spanks with a wooden spoon. i would never spank someone else's child but do believe there has to be consistent rules so the children know the bottom line when they visit and I enjoy their company. I told her her 12 year old is an extraordinarily intelligent young man and there is no doubt in my mind that he knows not to laugh when people cuss. am I wrong for setting up ground rules in my home by taking things away. And if this works well with my own children shouldn't I do this before spanking? I believe in spanking but I have a 5 year old that forgets the whole thing after the spanking is done. He does it again and again. But taking away something that has meaning has a lasting impact upon him. She told me that spanking is in the bible so it will work every time. Taking away privileges is not in the Bible. I personally believe in spanking but I also believe if it doesn't work then a parent needs to find something that does. I believe the "rod" was used for guiding sheep not beating them . and whatever practices guide our children to appropriate Christian Behavior fall into this frame work. What do you think? Was I wrong to assume a 12 year ol whose parents do not cuss doesn't know that he should not laugh when others cuss?

 

[Swtsnshyn]

Wow. I just joined this forum and it hit on a subject a friend and I discussed last night. A few months ago her 12 year old son and my 9 year old son were playing with another child. The "other' child told my son that if he said the"B" word that he would tell him how to win at a video game. my son asked"Do you mean B----?" The 12 year old and the other child began laughing and my 9 year old son ran to me crying that he said bad word. I punished all involved by taking away their McDonald's Happy Meal toys that I bought immediately before the incident. She said her child knows not to cuss but he doesn't know not to laugh at people when they cuss. She said that he has probably never wanted to bring toys to my house since because he thinks I will take them away. I gave her 3 different examples of toys he has brought to my house since. I asked her why he wants to come over all the time if the incident was so difficult for him to handle and why he didn't tell her. She is the type of parent who smacks her children and spanks with a wooden spoon. i would never spank someone else's child but do believe there has to be consistent rules so the children know the bottom line when they visit and I enjoy their company. I told her her 12 year old is an extraordinarily intelligent young man and there is no doubt in my mind that he knows not to laugh when people cuss. am I wrong for setting up ground rules in my home by taking things away. And if this works well with my own children shouldn't I do this before spanking? I believe in spanking but I have a 5 year old that forgets the whole thing after the spanking is done. He does it again and again. But taking away something that has meaning has a lasting impact upon him. She told me that spanking is in the bible so it will work every time. Taking away privileges is not in the Bible. I personally believe in spanking but I also believe if it doesn't work then a parent needs to find something that does. I believe the "rod" was used for guiding sheep not beating them . and whatever practices guide our children to appropriate Christian Behavior fall into this frame work. What do you think? Was I wrong to assume a 12 year ol whose parents do not cuss doesn't know that he should not laugh when others cuss?

You are absolutely right. The "rod" was used to guide. Sometimes this will require taking privileges; other times one may need to spank. Spanking, however, should never be a beating. There is a big difference.

I do agree that one should not spank someone else's child. From what you posted, you handled the situation in an appropriate manner.

As for the 12-year-old ... Surely he knew that it was wrong to laugh when others cuss. We have never had to tell our 13-year-old that he should not laugh when someone cusses or when someone does something wrong. He is smart enough to know better.

Hope this answered your questions.



God Bless!!
Dawn
Shining brightly for Jesus

 

[Hatsumi]

She told me that spanking is in the bible so it will work every time.

If spanking worked, you'd never have to do it more than once.

Secondly, in Deuteronomy it says to let the village stone your child to death if he or she is disobedient.

There are a lot of things in the Bible that are repugnant and/or unethical.

I hope that more and more Christians will eventually realize that the Bible is a product of its time, and that a bit of common sense needs to be utilized in applying Biblical teachings to our lives.

 

[mcb1998au]

If spanking worked, you'd never have to do it more than once.

Secondly, in Deuteronomy it says to let the village stone your child to death if he or she is disobedient.

There are a lot of things in the Bible that are repugnant and/or unethical.

I hope that more and more Christians will eventually realize that the Bible is a product of its time, and that a bit of common sense needs to be utilized in applying Biblical teachings to our lives.

Bingo.

 

[Big The Believer]

When my brother and sister and I we brought up My Father was a Long Distance Truck Driver and my Mom was a housewife who did most or the correcting of the kids . When Mom could not handle the situation it usually was placed on hold until Dad got home and then it was addressed with questions and then consequence hardly ever were there any spankings but when we got them we knew we had done severely wrong and that we were being corrected because they wanted us to know right from wrong . I am now a Father of an 11 year old beautiful Little girl who I dont think I have ever raised my hand too but we do have a way of dealing with her other then spanking .I have a great relationship with my daughter and I praise God that I dont have to spank her but deep down in her heart she knows that if she got a spanking it was-given out of love notanger. My Father always said that a child was not put on this earth to be physically punched or kicked but they were given a behind for correcting if necessary

 

[Reformationist]

I discipline in love not anger.

As it should be.

1. Should a hand or object be used?

I personally use my hand. I think it helps me avoid being to heavy handed.

2. Should it be done over clothing or bare bottom? Some say it's more effective bare bottom.

For me it depends. Normally I spank over clothes. I spank firmly and appropriately. I normally give my youngest, he's 2½, about 3 or 4 strokes, my older two children, 8 and 6, about 5 or 6. If, however, they happen to have no pants on then I have no problem spanking their bare bottom. They both seem effective in my experience.

3. How many swats should be given?

I think it should be in line with their age. Normally about 1 stroke for every year of their life is effective. Remember, willful disobedience is willful disobedience. They don't need to get more spankings for a more drastic offense. The important thing to remember is that when a child disobeys they aren't doing it for malicious reason or to personally get to you. Children disobey because it is their nature to be disobedient. This proclivity will vary with the child but children will generally push the envelope as far as you'll let them. Deal with it early. Deal with it consistantly. And, as you noted, deal with it have love for them as your motivation.

When do you stop the spanking?

I stop spanking when the strokes have been administered. Some kids will start crying right away and some never will. Remember that a spanking is supposed to hurt. It's not supposed to maim of course but if your child doesn't even seem to notice that you're spanking them you may want to crank it up a notch. Remember, it's behavior modification. If they don't feel it, they won't change.

4. What do you do if they try and kick and get away during a spanking?

Let's say that your child willfully disobeys you and you determine that he/she deserves a spanking. There are two issues at hand. First, that they recieve the discipline and, second, that they receive it with the proper attitude. If your child throws a fit then they have earned another spanking. So, they would receive one spanking for disobeying initially and another for not accepting their punishment properly. Let me tell you how effective this is. When my youngest son, who is 2½, earns a spanking I merely tell him to get across my knee. I don't have to chase him or hold him. He knows that I expect him to accept his punishment. I didn't expect that level of obedience right away but I did eventually expect it. Once I knew that he knew what I expected he would be spanked for not complying. Now I don't have to tell him twice.

If you look at the kicking as just another willful act of disobedience, deserving of a spanking, your child will soon get the message. I guarantee that their behind will get tired of the spanking long before your hand does.

Remember, consistancy, consistancy, consistancy. That's the best advice I can give you.

God bless

 

[Reformationist]

I think spanking makes children angry, and that it's disrespectful to hit people just because they're smaller than you.

I don't think anyone is advocating hitting their child just because they're bigger then them.

You wouldn't hit your spouse if he or she did something wrong, would you?

The God given authority I have over my spouse isn't designed to utilize corporal punishment. It is biblically irresponsible to try to equate the way you are to deal with the wrong doings of your spouse to that of your child. Children are incapable, up to a certain age, of full rational comprehension of their wrong doing. If one is consistant in their child rearing they should obviously be spanking less and less the older the child gets.

I think there's a lot to be said for common sense and not taking the Bible literally.

I assume you're talking about the portions of the Bible that deal with proper discipline of our children. I'll tell you exactly what common sense tells me. When I am in a public place and a person's child begins to act up, as they ALL will occasionally do, and they tell their child to stop and the child ignores them, my COMMON SENSE tells me that that child knows they've got at least a few more chances before the parent ever takes action. It's not a coincidence that children who are PROPERLY disciplined are much more obedient to those who have authority over them.

Much of the Bible is a product of its times. People hit their children back then because they didn't have TV or PlayStation to take away.

Spanking should only be used to deal with one specific thing and that is willful disobedience. Taking away priviledges is fine but it's not the proper way to train your child to avoid willful disobedience.

I think that using the Bible as a parenting manual is scary, to be honest.

Lord, I would just like to thank you for your Word and the wisdom it gives parents who don't think its truth is "scary."

God bless

 

[Reformationist]

Another thing: Always pray before and after. Pray before that you will be just, and pray after with your child, teaching them to ask forgiveness and for God's help in their llittle lives.

Great advice lucy. Thanks for sharing that.

God bless

 

[Hatsumi]

I don't think anyone is advocating hitting their child just because they're bigger then them.

No, but the law says that if you hit an adult, it's assault. Why is it okay to hit a child?

Children are incapable, up to a certain age, of full rational comprehension of their wrong doing.

How does hitting them make them comprehend something that they aren't able to comprehend?

When I am in a public place and a person's child begins to act up, as they ALL will occasionally do, and they tell their child to stop and the child ignores them, my COMMON SENSE tells me that that child knows they've got at least a few more chances before the parent ever takes action.

True. And common sense also tells me that many parents are just control freaks and reprimand their children for just being children. I've worked with the public for many years of my life, and I've seen loads of parents who have unrealistic expectations of how children should behave. They arrive at a restaurant or doctor's office with no snacks and no toys, and then yell at the kid for being cranky or playing with the salt shaker. Most of the children I've seen taken into the restroom for a "talking to" were just being kids and weren't doing anything harmful..... they were just doing something their parents found personally annoying and were spanked for it.

Taking away priviledges is fine but it's not the proper way to train your child to avoid willful disobedience.

Well, I guess I'm in the minority. I want my child to do what's right because it's right.... not because he fears authority. I don't want to break his will, and I don't want to "train" him. Kids who are trained to *not* think for themselves will grow up to be people who are taken advantage of and exploited. It's unrealistic, IMO, to expect a child to do what they're told for 18 years, then expect them to be good decision makers. Natural and/or logical consequences are the best teachers.

Lord, I would just like to thank you for your Word and the wisdom it gives parents who don't think its truth is "scary."

I've met many a devout Christian who are less than wise. Many are sheep who don't question anything.

 

[Reformationist]

No, but the law says that if you hit an adult, it's assault. Why is it okay to hit a child?

It's only okay to spank a child whom you have been given the authority to train up in the ways of God, and then ONLY in cases of willful disobedience. It would not be okay for me to spank someone else's child because God never gave me charge over them.

How does hitting them make them comprehend something that they aren't able to comprehend?

I don't spank my children to make them understand why something is wrong. I spank them to teach them what is wrong, and again, only in cases of willful disobedience. It would be silly for me to sit my 2 year old down and have an indepth discussion about why disobeying me is unacceptable. Even if he initially understood his attention span is such that it would make no difference 2 hours later. He does, however, remember that he gets spankings for certain unacceptable behavior. As I said, the first step in proper parenting is understanding that this beautiful, angelic, sweet little child whom you adore is naturally selfish, self-centered and disobedient. Your efforts are geared toward changing that, not purging your anger at their disobedient. Their disobedience is not intended as a personal affront to their parent. It's just the natural outplay of a selfish, self-centered nature. I find it amusing, in a not so amusing way, when people say stuff like, "Oh, it's just a phase." They're right, you know. Unfortunately, what they don't realize is that that phase is called life. We are born as selfish, self-centered beings (If you want to see the epitome of this look at a newborn. Every thought they have is me, me, me). It is our parents job to train us out of unacceptable behavior. Many parents advocate the "I just ignore them" method of child training. They erroneously think that ignoring bad behavior makes it go away. Unfortunately, these are the same parents that later have major problems with their children disobeying and then they are too old to spank. Do you know what selfish, self-centered children grow up into if their behavior is not progressively dealt with? They grow into selfish, self-centered adults. It's never a coincidence.

And common sense also tells me that many parents are just control freaks and reprimand their children for just being children.

Of course many parents do that. I'm not sure what relevence that has to advocating or rejecting the idea of the proper administration of corporal punishment but you are right that some parents do that.

I've worked with the public for many years of my life, and I've seen loads of parents who have unrealistic expectations of how children should behave. They arrive at a restaurant or doctor's office with no snacks and no toys, and then yell at the kid for being cranky or playing with the salt shaker. Most of the children I've seen taken into the restroom for a "talking to" were just being kids and weren't doing anything harmful..... they were just doing something their parents found personally annoying and were spanked for it.

Again, I'm not sure what this has to do with the proper utilization of spanking as a tool for child training. Just because some people spank for the wrong reasons doesn't make spanking wrong. It makes the people wrong who use it wrongly. In a previous discussion on this same topic in this forum one of the participants said something like, "I don't agree with spanking. My friends parents would beat him when they got mad at him and it was wrong." I was a bit confused because it was clear in that posters mind that spanking and beating were equivalent methods of dealing with children. I advocate the proper application of corporal punishment, not bad parenting.

Well, I guess I'm in the minority. I want my child to do what's right because it's right.... not because he fears authority.

There are two types of respect I strive to obtain from my children. The first is positional respect, which is a product of the position God has placed me in as their father. This one I will secure. The other is personal respect. This is respect that I hope to garner from my children by showing them I'm a man of integrity. This one I must earn. I will have the first and pray that God gives me the grace to earn the second.

I'm not sure what you think motivates people to implement the proper application of corporal punishment but I will tell you that, for me, it's that my children learn right from wrong. I don't spank my children because I'm not smart enough or creative enough to come up with other methods of child training, nor is spanking the only method of teaching I use to help my children. I spank when it's called for and I do so so that they will know right from wrong.

I don't want to break his will, and I don't want to "train" him.

LOL! I don't want to break my child's will either. What's your point?

Kids who are trained to *not* think for themselves will grow up to be people who are taken advantage of and exploited. It's unrealistic, IMO, to expect a child to do what they're told for 18 years, then expect them to be good decision makers. Natural and/or logical consequences are the best teachers.

Oooohh, I get it now. Instead of actually being parents and teaching our children not to, for instance, run out in the street because daddy says so we should just let the natural/logical consequence happen and have them get run over. Hey, great idea.

I've met many a devout Christian who are less than wise. Many are sheep who don't question anything.

It's truly amazing to me how far Dr. Spock's humanistic "our children are equal to us, you'll stifle the person inside of them" philosophy has permeated the world. I don't teach my children not to question. I teach them to respect the authority placed over them.

My sister, bless her, has two sons. One is 16 and the other is 4. She had the first when she, herself, was just a young girl and basically grew up as more of a sister than a mother. She and her oldest have a strange, though loving relationship. He often forgets he is subject to her authority and ignores her rules. He is a great kid but not the most obedient. So, because she didn't hardly ever spank him as he was growing up she does not spank her youngest. What she doesn't realize is that her oldest did get spanked, by my parents. He does obey them. Coincidence? I don't think so. Anyway, for whatever reason, she has chosen to not spank her youngest. In my life I have never, NEVER, seen a more disobedient child than my youngest nephew. He is so disobedient that my own children have come to me on a number of occasions and asked why he acts that way. I merely tell them that he acts that way because he can. Then I ask them what they think would happen if they told me to shut up or hit me, as I've seen him do to my sister on numerous occasions. Their eyes get wide and they say, "we'd get a spanking, of course." Do you know how she handles it? She lets it build and build and build until, as I've experienced on the phone with her on numerous occasions, screams at him like a raving banshee. Does she spank him? Nooooo. Do you think he cares when she tells him to do something? Of course not.

So, let's see. There's me, who is controlled in the administration of corporal punishment and there's my sister who let's herself get so mad, telling her son over and over again "if you do that one more time," or, "1..., 2..., 3..., that's it!" that she then screams at him like some kind of psychopath. My children obey me. They respect me. They are well behaved in public places. They ALL have amazing personalities and, in fact, tend to be the dominant children in their play groups. They are caring, considerate, and well mannered. My sister's children regularly ignore her rules. They clearly don't respect her. They act out of control in public places, well the youngest one anyway. The youngest is not at all well mannered, though they are both very caring children.

You feel free to raise your children as you see fit. If you don't advocate spanking then modify their unacceptable behavior in some other fashion. Just make sure you do something because, as I've told my sister, doing nothing IS doing something. It's teaching them that there are no consequences for their actions.

God bless

 

[HEMDA]

Of course many parents do that. I'm not sure what relevence that has to advocating or rejecting the idea of the proper administration of corporal punishment but you are right that some parents do that.

Again, I'm not sure what this has to do with the proper utilization of spanking as a tool for child training. Just because some people spank for the wrong reasons doesn't make spanking wrong. It makes the people wrong who use it wrongly. .

There are two types of respect I strive to obtain from my children. The first is positional respect, which is a product of the position God has placed me in as their father. This one I will secure. The other is personal respect. This is respect that I hope to garner from my children by showing them I'm a man of integrity. This one I must earn. I will have the first and pray that God gives me the grace to earn the second.

LOL! I don't want to break my child's will either. What's your point?

Ooohh, I get it now. Instead of actually being parents and teaching our children not to, for instance, run out in the street because daddy says so we should just let the natural/logical consequence happen and have them get run over. Hey, great idea.

So, let's see. There's me, who is controlled in the administration of corporal punishment and there's my sister who let's herself get so mad, telling her son over and over again "if you do that one more time," or, "1..., 2..., 3..., that's it!" that she then screams at him like some kind of psychopath. My children obey me. They respect me. They are well behaved in public places. They ALL have amazing personalities and, in fact, tend to be the dominant children in their play groups. They are caring, considerate, and well mannered. My sister's children regularly ignore her rules. They clearly don't respect her. They act out of control in public places, well the youngest one anyway. The youngest is not at all well mannered, though they are both very caring children.

God bless

AMEN ! AMEN !

 

[MadMaddie_N_Julie]

Honestly i believe there are other ways to discipline your children other than spanking. If spanking works with you then for it, but sometime you just don't need to. Get to what's important (i.e a toy, the tv, video game, etc) take that way from them. Do you honestly have to hit them?

 

[Reformationist]

Honestly i believe there are other ways to discipline your children other than spanking.

Of course there are. I don't think anyone is advocating spanking as the only form of discipline. The proper application of corporal punishment is limited in it's applicability and therefore should be limited in its administration.

If spanking works with you then for it, but sometime you just don't need to. Get to what's important (i.e a toy, the tv, video game, etc) take that way from them. Do you honestly have to hit them?

Once again let me stress that parents who spank don't, or at least should not, do so because of their inability to come up with anything else. We don't spank because we're stupid and uncreative. We spank because the proper biblical response to the willful disobedience of a child is corporal punishment. Kids today have no real motivation for obeying the authority God has placed over them because the punishments aimed at modifying their inappropriate behavior are of no consequence to them. Take away their T.V., oh well, they'll listen to their radio. Take away the priviledge of going out with their friends and they just talk on the phone. What basically ends up happening is that you have to take away every single thing they like to do to make sure they are miserable. This is, in no way, conducive to teaching them to respect authority. They view these inconveniences as just that, an inconvenience. These things rarely make them consider the sinfulness of their rebellion because they have adapted and can ignore the punishments they are dealt. Not to mention, this often causes the parent to be imprisoned themselves. I have told my child she can't talk on the phone so now I either have to take her with me when I go somewhere to ensure she doesn't or leave her home and wonder if she broke the rules. That's more of a punishment for the parent.

God bless

 

[Andry]

With respect, I'd have to almost completely disagree with you. In my history discipline equaled punishment. If you were disciplined that’s what it meant – you were punished. I didn’t realize that in God’s eyes discipline did not equal punishment. Discipline equals correction, which is a very different thing altogether.

Once again let me stress that parents who spank don't, or at least should not, do so because of their inability to come up with anything else.

Most parents who spank do so because of their inability to come up with anything else. Spanking is a tool available as a form of discipline. But most parents use it as their primary tool, and their arsenal of discipline can be counted on one hand. How sad is that? Most of us had to learn/train/or be taught in our chosen professions. Yet many of us think good parenting 'is in the blood'.

We don't spank because we're stupid and uncreative.

Most of the time, we do spank because we're stupid and uncreative. Because we're not willing to learn, or too lazy might be more accurate, to learn. I don't see to many dads having a 'how to' book on parenting, although I have seen 'how to fish, make a shed, fix your car' books on their shelves.

We spank because the proper biblical response to the willful disobedience of a child is corporal punishment.

Excuse me? What was God's response to our willful disobedience? When God so loved the world, was the world behaving properly? Was the world in obedience? So what was God's response? Took away our freedom? Beat us severely? Sent us to our room?

God so loved the world that He gave. We need to learn the God-method of discipline – and it will be difficult to do because it does not make sense to the natural mind, but we need to learn to discipline through giving. Instead of taking my son and putting him in his room, but taking my son and having a few words of correction and about what the problem was, and then taking him to watch a movie. And I found that mercy triumphs over judgment every time. I found that grace will change more things than punishment ever will. And most people do not come to salvation because of the threat of God’s punishment, they come because of the enticement of God’s grace. And it’s grace that changed our lives.

Kids today have no real motivation for obeying the authority God has placed over them because the punishments aimed at modifying their inappropriate behavior are of no consequence to them.

That's because we parents are stupid and uncreative. Let's not be quick to blame the kids. They're counting on us to instill God's laws in their hearts. If we as parents do our jobs properly, we wouldn't have as many spoiled brats today as we do.

Take away their T.V., oh well, they'll listen to their radio. Take away the priviledge of going out with their friends and they just talk on the phone. What basically ends up happening is that you have to take away every single thing they like to do to make sure they are miserable. This is, in no way, conducive to teaching them to respect authority. They view these inconveniences as just that, an inconvenience. These things rarely make them consider the sinfulness of their rebellion because they have adapted and can ignore the punishments they are dealt. Not to mention, this often causes the parent to be imprisoned themselves. I have told my child she can't talk on the phone so now I either have to take her with me when I go somewhere to ensure she doesn't or leave her home and wonder if she broke the rules. That's more of a punishment for the parent.

Taking things away is not the proper Biblical response. See above. Yes, it is the traditional response that most of us have been brought up by. But just looking at the rebelliousness of even our Christian kids should be enough to be cognizant that there has to be a better way.

 

[Reformationist]

With respect, I'd have to almost completely disagree with you. In my history discipline equaled punishment. If you were disciplined that?s what it meant ? you were punished. I didn?t realize that in God?s eyes discipline did not equal punishment. Discipline equals correction, which is a very different thing altogether.

Disagree with who, me? If so, do you mean that discipline does equal punishment or just that "in your history" people have used it incorrectly and synonymously?

Most parents who spank do so because of their inability to come up with anything else.

LOL! What a completely unfounded thing to say. Do you know most parents who spank, much less why they spank? Or do you, once again, mean "in your experience?"

Spanking is a tool available as a form of discipline. But most parents use it as their primary tool, and their arsenal of discipline can be counted on one hand. How sad is that?

I guess how sad it is would depend on the ages of those they are disciplining.

Most of us had to learn/train/or be taught in our chosen professions. Yet many of us think good parenting 'is in the blood'.

I agree that many think that but thinking they are good parents doesn't make it so, nor does it make spanking wrong.

Most of the time, we do spank because we're stupid and uncreative.

By "we" I assume you mean you and your wife? If so, I encourage you to analyze the reasons for which you spank. If, however, by "we" you mean parents in general then I encourage you to stick to judging the motivations that you know of, namely your own. You can't even be sure of your wife's motivations. You can only be aware of what she may tell you.

Because we're not willing to learn, or too lazy might be more accurate, to learn. I don't see to many dads having a 'how to' book on parenting, although I have seen 'how to fish, make a shed, fix your car' books on their shelves.

That's actually the sad part. I, myself, have read numerous biblically based books on proper parenting.

Excuse me? What was God's response to our willful disobedience?

You may want to stick to responding to what I actually posted, which you did, in fact, quote:

"We spank because the proper biblical response to the willful disobedience of a child is corporal punishment."

That help?

When God so loved the world, was the world behaving properly? Was the world in obedience? So what was God's response? Took away our freedom? Beat us severely? Sent us to our room?

So you are advocating the belief that as "good parents" we should just take the spanking ourselves, as Christ took the punishment for the sins of His children? No? What then?

God so loved the world that He gave.

Do you know what true biblical, godly love is? True godly love is giving the recipient of our actions that which they most need to be obedient to God with no regard for ourself. In the case of spanking our children we are to spank them to teach them obedience to the authority placed over them without being motivated by our own anger, aggravation, frustration, etc.

By the way, I give. I give my children a spanking when they are willfully disobedient.

We need to learn the God-method of discipline ? and it will be difficult to do because it does not make sense to the natural mind, but we need to learn to discipline through giving. Instead of taking my son and putting him in his room, but taking my son and having a few words of correction and about what the problem was, and then taking him to watch a movie.

First, I do have "words of correction" with all three of my children when they disobey me. And then they are given the lesson that there are consequences for their actions and oftentimes those consequences are unpleasant. I don't just "have a few words and then take them to a movie." I make sure they know I love them and that BECAUSE I LOVE THEM I am going to discipline them to teach them obedience, even though I don't enjoy having to spank them. Second, I don't waste my time with long, drawn out conversations about why they disobeyed. I know why they disobeyed. They disobey because they're children and rebellion is their nature:

Proverbs 22:15
Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child;
The rod of correction will drive it far from him.

And I found that mercy triumphs over judgment every time.

I don't judge my children for disobeying. I need not. I already know that it is their nature to disobey. You think it's merciful to "have a few words of correction and then go see a movie" when your child is disobedient. This may be sufficient, depending on the age of your child. If they are young I don't think it's merciful. I believe you are doing your child a grave injustice. If they are disobedient to their boss or the law is someone just going to "have a few words of correction with them and then take them to a movie?"

I found that grace will change more things than punishment ever will.

Of course it will. However, you misunderstand grace. It is not gracious of me to fail to equip my children with an understanding of the reality of consequences. Your children may very well be submissive to your methods. I will tell you that, IN MY EXPERIENCE, the method of correction you describe wouldn't deter any of the disobedience from any of the children I know.

And most people do not come to salvation because of the threat of God?s punishment, they come because of the enticement of God?s grace.

People don't become saved because of an "enticement." God doesn't "woo" us to salvation. We come because we have been made alive. We are made alive by the efficacy of God's call, not our superior sensitivity to the call.

And it?s grace that changed our lives.

I agree. However, if it's grace that changed your life it wasn't because you responded to an "enticement."

That's because we parents are stupid and uncreative.

I am neither stupid nor uncreative. I'm also not confused about the applicability of corporal punishment. That seems to be your burden to bear, or not, as you will.

Let's not be quick to blame the kids.

I don't blame my kids. I blame the weakness of their flesh and the fallen desires of their heart that are inherent in us since the Fall. I don't spank because I'm mad at them. I spank because it's the proper way to deal with willful disobedience in a child.

They're counting on us to instill God's laws in their hearts. If we as parents do our jobs properly, we wouldn't have as many spoiled brats today as we do.

I agree completely. Part of our job as parents is to teach our children the proper way to behave and that there are consequences when we act in an inappropriate manner. I can just see it now:

"Mason," who is 2½ by the way, "what you did was wrong. I don't want to you do that anymore. Now let's go watch a movie."

Yeah. Riiiiiight.

Taking things away is not the proper Biblical response. See above. Yes, it is the traditional response that most of us have been brought up by. But just looking at the rebelliousness of even our Christian kids should be enough to be cognizant that there has to be a better way.

There is a better way. It's called spanking.

God bless