Sovereignty vs Free Will...

[Ben James]

So I've been a believer my entire life, but lately I've been struggling with the concept of free will. I recently went through a divorce. It was not my choice - my wife cheated on me and left me. I got some counseling from a Pastor during this time and he told me that God's will would always be to restore a marriage, but my wife had free will and God would never change that. This made sense to me with everything I have been taught and believed and I fought against bitterness in my heart for God not saving my marriage as I hoped he would.

When we first split, she was a nightmare when dealing with our son. We have 50/50 custody, but she tried to undermine me every chance she got regarding our time together, even when it went against our legal paperwork. Now after some time has passed, she has been sporadically more reasonable. She has been willing to give and take and things have been better. My mom told me I should be happy because this was an answered prayer. She says I should thank God for making things better between us.

Wait.

Does anyone else see the contradiction? If God was unable to touch her heart in any way when our marriage dissolved, how is He all of a sudden able to make her more reasonable for the sake of our child? I'm not sure totally where I fall on the debate of whether or not God will influence our free will (I know that He is able and scripture has various passages supporting both sides), but I feel like I'm left with a paradox in this situation. I have a very hard time praising God for things being better between us now, because that would mean that He had some influence in softening her heart and making it an easier situation. And if He is able to influence her, than He chose to let our marriage fail, when I was in constant prayer for him to save it, for the sake of our son and to honor my vows.

I'm left in a world where I can't honestly praise God for the way other people are acting because my only solace in her leaving me was that God couldn't (wouldn't) change her actions. I feel when things go badly, I'm expected to say, 'well, we live in a fallen world and God will not change people's decisions', but when things go well I have to say, 'oh, yeah - God made that person do that.' I can't reconcile this.

I would appreciate any thoughts anyone had on this matter. I am praying against bitterness, but logically I am losing that battle...

 

[AvgJoe]

God can certainly influence the heart of man but man can turn away from God and decide to do his/her own thing.

 

[Anguspure]

So I've been a believer my entire life, but lately I've been struggling with the concept of free will. I recently went through a divorce. It was not my choice - my wife cheated on me and left me. I got some counseling from a Pastor during this time and he told me that God's will would always be to restore a marriage, but my wife had free will and God would never change that. This made sense to me with everything I have been taught and believed and I fought against bitterness in my heart for God not saving my marriage as I hoped he would.

When we first split, she was a nightmare when dealing with our son. We have 50/50 custody, but she tried to undermine me every chance she got regarding our time together, even when it went against our legal paperwork. Now after some time has passed, she has been sporadically more reasonable. She has been willing to give and take and things have been better. My mom told me I should be happy because this was an answered prayer. She says I should thank God for making things better between us.

Wait.

Does anyone else see the contradiction? If God was unable to touch her heart in any way when our marriage dissolved, how is He all of a sudden able to make her more reasonable for the sake of our child? I'm not sure totally where I fall on the debate of whether or not God will influence our free will (I know that He is able and scripture has various passages supporting both sides), but I feel like I'm left with a paradox in this situation. I have a very hard time praising God for things being better between us now, because that would mean that He had some influence in softening her heart and making it an easier situation. And if He is able to influence her, than He chose to let our marriage fail, when I was in constant prayer for him to save it, for the sake of our son and to honor my vows.

I'm left in a world where I can't honestly praise God for the way other people are acting because my only solace in her leaving me was that God couldn't (wouldn't) change her actions. I feel when things go badly, I'm expected to say, 'well, we live in a fallen world and God will not change people's decisions', but when things go well I have to say, 'oh, yeah - God made that person do that.' I can't reconcile this.

I would appreciate any thoughts anyone had on this matter. I am praying against bitterness, but logically I am losing that battle...

Ahh. Reality: the point at which the rubber hits the road.
Know how you feel brother.
For me, I think God's sovereignty extends to giving the creatures created in His image free will.
A risky business perhaps but He has his reasons.
I consider that Middle knowledge is the philosophy of His omnisience.

 

[Thir7ySev3n]

So I've been a believer my entire life, but lately I've been struggling with the concept of free will. I recently went through a divorce. It was not my choice - my wife cheated on me and left me. I got some counseling from a Pastor during this time and he told me that God's will would always be to restore a marriage, but my wife had free will and God would never change that. This made sense to me with everything I have been taught and believed and I fought against bitterness in my heart for God not saving my marriage as I hoped he would.

When we first split, she was a nightmare when dealing with our son. We have 50/50 custody, but she tried to undermine me every chance she got regarding our time together, even when it went against our legal paperwork. Now after some time has passed, she has been sporadically more reasonable. She has been willing to give and take and things have been better. My mom told me I should be happy because this was an answered prayer. She says I should thank God for making things better between us.

Wait.

Does anyone else see the contradiction? If God was unable to touch her heart in any way when our marriage dissolved, how is He all of a sudden able to make her more reasonable for the sake of our child? I'm not sure totally where I fall on the debate of whether or not God will influence our free will (I know that He is able and scripture has various passages supporting both sides), but I feel like I'm left with a paradox in this situation. I have a very hard time praising God for things being better between us now, because that would mean that He had some influence in softening her heart and making it an easier situation. And if He is able to influence her, than He chose to let our marriage fail, when I was in constant prayer for him to save it, for the sake of our son and to honor my vows.

I'm left in a world where I can't honestly praise God for the way other people are acting because my only solace in her leaving me was that God couldn't (wouldn't) change her actions. I feel when things go badly, I'm expected to say, 'well, we live in a fallen world and God will not change people's decisions', but when things go well I have to say, 'oh, yeah - God made that person do that.' I can't reconcile this.

I would appreciate any thoughts anyone had on this matter. I am praying against bitterness, but logically I am losing that battle...

Don't listen to the mere unconsidered sentiments of anyone, even if they are close to you. There is no logical contradiction that is presented in the mere contrast of expressions given without Scriptural support.

God does not make anyone do anything because God can not make someone freely choose something. If God were to force an action or reaction, He would not be changing their heart through relationship, as the Scripture explicates is His method throughout in His interactions with many people. Thus, God would not have effectuated anything good, since the person would be operating like a force of nature rather than a willing agent; they would be like water, which satisfies one man's thirst and drowns another. In either case, the water was neither good nor evil; it was simply functioning as it does. It neither tries to satisfy, nor attempts to murder, it simply functions.

We are not impersonal forces, but personal agents. The reason why you saw your wife change in one situation and not the other is because God can work with us in some situations and not in others. This is not a lack of God's power, but God's respect of the freedom of each individual (freedom of the will must exist for even love to exist, and love is the greatest good, 1 John 4:8, 1 Corinthians 13:13). A person's heart may be hard in one circumstance, and be softened in another; only God knows why each person responds as they do. That is why sometimes He leads us beside still waters (Psalms 23:2), and other times leads us into the desert to suffer for our own good (Romans 5:3).

So God may have only been able to captivate her attention after she quieted her mind to hear Him in the subsequent circumstances. Do not forget that the devil also assaults us in our marriages, as he does towards anything else that is godly. Resist the devil and he will flee from you (James 4:7). If she did not resist him, he would get a stronghold in your marriage through her and attack until she surrendered to him or submitted to God and caused Satan to flee after seeing the futility of his attacks. The fact that she divorced you shows she didn't put Christ over herself (Mark 10:12), and only against Christ is the devil powerless. If there was any satanic attack against your marriage, the devil would have relented after his success since there would be nothing left to dismantle, thus leaving her to recover after her sin was already committed (read Matthew 12:43-45).

If you have more questions concerning this issue and want more Scriptural and logical answers, click here. I have studied the subjects of God's goodness and providence for many years, and have developed a completely logically and theologically sound resolution that relies on deductive inference, not glorified sentiments. Hope this resolves your predicament.

 

[Rescued One]

When I went through some terribly hard times, I read the Psalms again and again. I struggled to survive the sorrow I felt. And it seemed as though it would never end. The comfort that people tried to give me, didn't comfort me because I didn't know how long or how deep my trial would be. I didn't know the future. The words of this old song are true:

Because He lives I can face tomorrow
Because He lives all fear is gone
Because I know He holds the future
And life is worth the living just because He lives

Life isn't supposed to be easy. But you're never alone.

"For I the LORD thy God will hold thy right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not; I will help thee."
Isaiah 43:13

Believe that God is making you stronger. He did that for me!

"Worry does not empty tomorrow of its sorrow. It empties today of its strength."
- Corrie Ten Boom

I'll pray for you. God is able but His thoughts are not our thoughts.

 

[stuart lawrence]

So I've been a believer my entire life, but lately I've been struggling with the concept of free will. I recently went through a divorce. It was not my choice - my wife cheated on me and left me. I got some counseling from a Pastor during this time and he told me that God's will would always be to restore a marriage, but my wife had free will and God would never change that. This made sense to me with everything I have been taught and believed and I fought against bitterness in my heart for God not saving my marriage as I hoped he would.

When we first split, she was a nightmare when dealing with our son. We have 50/50 custody, but she tried to undermine me every chance she got regarding our time together, even when it went against our legal paperwork. Now after some time has passed, she has been sporadically more reasonable. She has been willing to give and take and things have been better. My mom told me I should be happy because this was an answered prayer. She says I should thank God for making things better between us.

Wait.

Does anyone else see the contradiction? If God was unable to touch her heart in any way when our marriage dissolved, how is He all of a sudden able to make her more reasonable for the sake of our child? I'm not sure totally where I fall on the debate of whether or not God will influence our free will (I know that He is able and scripture has various passages supporting both sides), but I feel like I'm left with a paradox in this situation. I have a very hard time praising God for things being better between us now, because that would mean that He had some influence in softening her heart and making it an easier situation. And if He is able to influence her, than He chose to let our marriage fail, when I was in constant prayer for him to save it, for the sake of our son and to honor my vows.

I'm left in a world where I can't honestly praise God for the way other people are acting because my only solace in her leaving me was that God couldn't (wouldn't) change her actions. I feel when things go badly, I'm expected to say, 'well, we live in a fallen world and God will not change people's decisions', but when things go well I have to say, 'oh, yeah - God made that person do that.' I can't reconcile this.

I would appreciate any thoughts anyone had on this matter. I am praying against bitterness, but logically I am losing that battle...

I have found the only way to have any peace is a really tough way to follow, but its worth it if you are willing to do it.
Yes, God could have made the marriage work and your wife not leave you, fir nothing is impossible for God.
And yes, God has brought your wife or ex wife to be more reasonable now.

So how can you have any peace when the contradiction appears?

Revert to simple, childlike faith. Accept God I God and the situation you are in now is what God allows because he loves you.
You don't have to work it all out, Gods thoughts are far higher than ours and so are his ways.
I hope Thi doesn't make you angry, or seem unsympathetic. But can you have any peace looking at the situation logically?
And isn't having peace what is all important?
God bless

 

[~Anastasia~]

So I've been a believer my entire life, but lately I've been struggling with the concept of free will. I recently went through a divorce. It was not my choice - my wife cheated on me and left me. I got some counseling from a Pastor during this time and he told me that God's will would always be to restore a marriage, but my wife had free will and God would never change that. This made sense to me with everything I have been taught and believed and I fought against bitterness in my heart for God not saving my marriage as I hoped he would.

When we first split, she was a nightmare when dealing with our son. We have 50/50 custody, but she tried to undermine me every chance she got regarding our time together, even when it went against our legal paperwork. Now after some time has passed, she has been sporadically more reasonable. She has been willing to give and take and things have been better. My mom told me I should be happy because this was an answered prayer. She says I should thank God for making things better between us.

Wait.

Does anyone else see the contradiction? If God was unable to touch her heart in any way when our marriage dissolved, how is He all of a sudden able to make her more reasonable for the sake of our child? I'm not sure totally where I fall on the debate of whether or not God will influence our free will (I know that He is able and scripture has various passages supporting both sides), but I feel like I'm left with a paradox in this situation. I have a very hard time praising God for things being better between us now, because that would mean that He had some influence in softening her heart and making it an easier situation. And if He is able to influence her, than He chose to let our marriage fail, when I was in constant prayer for him to save it, for the sake of our son and to honor my vows.

I'm left in a world where I can't honestly praise God for the way other people are acting because my only solace in her leaving me was that God couldn't (wouldn't) change her actions. I feel when things go badly, I'm expected to say, 'well, we live in a fallen world and God will not change people's decisions', but when things go well I have to say, 'oh, yeah - God made that person do that.' I can't reconcile this.

I would appreciate any thoughts anyone had on this matter. I am praying against bitterness, but logically I am losing that battle...

Hello Ben James, and welcome to CF. I'm sorry that you had to come for the sake of dealing with such a difficult situation, but I pray you can find support and solace here, and that you will stay around and develop friendships with the family of God to help further strengthen you.

I am sorry to hear of your situation. It touches me personally because I also went through a difficult custody situation - extremely difficult - so I know how devastating those tactics can be. I'm so glad to hear things improved in your case.

I think the answer to your question is that God is ALWAYS URGING people to do the right thing, to turn in a right direction, and so on. I wouldn't say that He generally forcefully changes anyone's heart. But at times He can be persistent, and some respond, even if they did not before. On the other hand, I think we absolutely have what people tend to call "free will" in that He doesn't force us if we decide to completely reject His urging and do the very opposite. (I would argue such a person is not truly free, but rather a slave of the worst kind, but that's another discussion).

I don't doubt that God was involved in urging your ex-wife all along - not to commit adultery in the first place, not to refuse reconciliation, not to damage family dynamics involving your son. But it seems she was listening to something else. But somewhere along the way, for whatever reason (sin when it leads to terrible consequences sometimes jolts us this way, she might have gotten tired of all the negatives) ... anyway, somewhere along the way, she started listening to the wisdom urging better behavior.

I'm pretty sure this is along the lines of what happened, because such things are always happening all around us, to all of us.

It is not an ineffectual aspect of God ... it is how He has chosen to order things. He permitted the angelic rebellion. He permitted the fall of all creation due to Adam's sin. And He permits us to make sometimes disastrous choices in our rebellion.

But what we cannot see is His work to bring about the restoration of all things in the end. We will come to Him, some of us, broken and damaged because of our sins and the sins of others. But in the end, He will heal all the hurts and create in us a glory we cannot not imagine.

My guess is that it will be all the sweeter, knowing how terrible our end would be if left to our own devices, knowing that God allowed us to choose Him in the end, and knowing that He was always standing by to redeem everything we would ruin on our own.

Again, welcome to CF. May God help you to work through the difficult questions you are facing, and to heal from the hurts you have suffered, and your son as well.

God be with you.

 

[zippy2006]

So I've been a believer my entire life, but lately I've been struggling with the concept of free will. I recently went through a divorce. It was not my choice - my wife cheated on me and left me. I got some counseling from a Pastor during this time and he told me that God's will would always be to restore a marriage, but my wife had free will and God would never change that. This made sense to me with everything I have been taught and believed and I fought against bitterness in my heart for God not saving my marriage as I hoped he would.

When we first split, she was a nightmare when dealing with our son. We have 50/50 custody, but she tried to undermine me every chance she got regarding our time together, even when it went against our legal paperwork. Now after some time has passed, she has been sporadically more reasonable. She has been willing to give and take and things have been better. My mom told me I should be happy because this was an answered prayer. She says I should thank God for making things better between us.

Wait.

Does anyone else see the contradiction? If God was unable to touch her heart in any way when our marriage dissolved, how is He all of a sudden able to make her more reasonable for the sake of our child? I'm not sure totally where I fall on the debate of whether or not God will influence our free will (I know that He is able and scripture has various passages supporting both sides), but I feel like I'm left with a paradox in this situation. I have a very hard time praising God for things being better between us now, because that would mean that He had some influence in softening her heart and making it an easier situation. And if He is able to influence her, than He chose to let our marriage fail, when I was in constant prayer for him to save it, for the sake of our son and to honor my vows.

I'm left in a world where I can't honestly praise God for the way other people are acting because my only solace in her leaving me was that God couldn't (wouldn't) change her actions. I feel when things go badly, I'm expected to say, 'well, we live in a fallen world and God will not change people's decisions', but when things go well I have to say, 'oh, yeah - God made that person do that.' I can't reconcile this.

I would appreciate any thoughts anyone had on this matter. I am praying against bitterness, but logically I am losing that battle...

Great question - I can see how it hits close to home for you.

First, I would say that God wills good, not evil. So when your wife caused evil, she was acting against the will of God and also against his promptings of grace. When your wife did good, being "sporadically more reasonable," she was cooperating with God and his graces. So it isn't unreasonable to blame your wife and not God for the evil, and to praise both God and your wife for the good. O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; but in me is thine help (Hosea 13:9). Destruction is not from God, but help is.

Secondly, we must admit that God is not powerless against evil, and that all evil is permitted by God. It could not come about without his permission, and all things work together for our good (Romans 8:28). There is certainly a mystery here. It is possible to question God, to be frustrated with him for allowing certain evils in our lives, but ultimately we must have faith that he is in control and that he knows what he is doing, even when it seems bleak.

Know of my prayers,
-Zip

 

[dhh712]

I feel when things go badly, I'm expected to say, 'well, we live in a fallen world and God will not change people's decisions', but when things go well I have to say, 'oh, yeah - God made that person do that.' I can't reconcile this.

We actually don't have free will in the sense that you're describing. By his fall into sin, man lost all ability of will to do any spiritual good accompanying salvation. The only free will we have, therefore, is to freely sin.

God does sometimes interfere with people's free will by restraining their actions; that is why this world is not as bad as it can be (the example that comes to mind is when Pharoah was restrained from touching Abraham's wife--only because God withheld him from her).

Any good action, whether it is good works to the glory of God or just good in a beneficial sense to society, is of God only. We can only do sinful things freely. Only when God converts a sinner does he free him from his bondage to sin and enables him, by His grace alone, to will to do that which is spiritually good; however, because of the remaining corruption in him, he does not do this perfectly and will also will to do that which is evil.

My mother explained it best when she exclaimed after one of our discussions, "So when we do something wrong it is our fault but when we do something right it is God's doing." Yes! Exactly.

So, your statement doesn't make logical sense because it is incorrect. In some instances God will interfere with people's decisions. For some reason known only to him, he did not soften your ex's heart in order to prevent a divorce. But he did soften her heart so that things can be easier for your child. That can a bitter thing to hold against God, yet let us remember that we should not think we are wiser than he. Let us strive for the faith of Job, "Though he slay me, yet will I trust him." (13:15).

 

[ExodusMe]

So I've been a believer my entire life, but lately I've been struggling with the concept of free will.

Everyone does... hehe...

I recently went through a divorce. It was not my choice - my wife cheated on me and left me. I got some counseling from a Pastor during this time and he told me that God's will would always be to restore a marriage, but my wife had free will and God would never change that. This made sense to me with everything I have been taught and believed and I fought against bitterness in my heart for God not saving my marriage as I hoped he would.

A sincere struggle there. It is hard to accept that God permits evil. Especially when the evil occurs against your person. It is flesh-like to feel a desire for justice or judgement when evil is permitted against us.

When we first split, she was a nightmare when dealing with our son. We have 50/50 custody, but she tried to undermine me every chance she got regarding our time together, even when it went against our legal paperwork. Now after some time has passed, she has been sporadically more reasonable. She has been willing to give and take and things have been better. My mom told me I should be happy because this was an answered prayer. She says I should thank God for making things better between us.

Wait.

Does anyone else see the contradiction? If God was unable to touch her heart in any way when our marriage dissolved, how is He all of a sudden able to make her more reasonable for the sake of our child? I'm not sure totally where I fall on the debate of whether or not God will influence our free will (I know that He is able and scripture has various passages supporting both sides), but I feel like I'm left with a paradox in this situation. I have a very hard time praising God for things being better between us now, because that would mean that He had some influence in softening her heart and making it an easier situation. And if He is able to influence her, than He chose to let our marriage fail, when I was in constant prayer for him to save it, for the sake of our son and to honor my vows.

Now we can see the problem. Freewill in the most basic sense is a persons capacity to choose "A" or not choose "A". God cannot logically make someone make a free decision. That would be a contradiction. The issue you are having is twofold. On one hand you struggle with how you should interpret evil in the world and the other you struggle with how you should interpret the way God influences our free decisions.

The first issue is how we interpret evil in the world. God permits evil only because he has morally sufficient reasons for it to exist. This means that our happiness and well being are often at odds with God's plan for all of us, but it is not all bad, because his morally sufficient reasons are actually better for us than our earthly happiness & well being. For instance, your wife cheating on you & divorcing you is meant to bring yourself & others into a closer relation with the Creator of the Universe. That ain't a bad exchange. It is a terrible experience to go through, but it is worth it in the end. Further, if you think about Romans 2:6-10 our works incur judgement by God and we are tested to show our faith in Him. Your wife might not be saved. She might need to be refined. I don't know. That is the mystery part. Who is being helped? You might never find out or you could look back 10 years from now when your life is completely changed and say "I can see what God was doing then". When my father died when I was seven I had no idea I would marry a woman with a 7 year old son who did not have a father. God is amazing and you will help others with your experience if you let the Holy Spirit work.

Second issue, on how God influences our free decisions. This is a bit more technical, because it has to do with free will and calvinism vs arminianism, etc... Personally, my interpretation is God has put every human into the best possible scenario for them to come into a saving relationship with Himself. I think of it like how I know if I offered my son a piece of chocolate he would undoubtedly say yes. God knows us so well he even knows more complicated decisions like what you will eat for breakfast or whether you will reject or accept him. This includes all of the decisions throughout your life. He has essentially 'stacked' the deck. You still have made your free choices. He just knows which choices you will make.

As to whether you should praise God in the good or bad. We should praise him always. God permitted your wife to cheat on your because it was best for the world. Praise him because he is actively saving you and others. Praise him because he doesn't care about our superficial well being on this earth but he cares about our eternal salvation.

Hopefully I have helped out a little bit. I haven't been reading philosophy as much lately, so my answers were a little rough.

 

[ExodusMe]

We actually don't have free will in the sense that you're describing. By his fall into sin, man lost all ability of will to do any spiritual good accompanying salvation. The only free will we have, therefore, is to freely sin.

You don't give an explanation of how a person is converted. Are you saying a person does not freely chooses to receive the Holy Spirit? Even without the Holy Spirit I think it is possible to make 'good' choices. You are just confusing a sin nature with sinful actions. Humans without the Holy Spirit can make morally good choices. Otherwise, how would you interpret Romans 2:14? Not trying to be nitpicky, but humans make amoral choices all of the time. For instance, choosing whether to paint a room black or white has no moral consequence. To say that humans can only make sinful choices needs some clarification.

 

[Rion]

I'd suggest Augustine's City of God, Book V chapter 9 and 10 if you're up to it. Not sure if your interests lay in that direction, however.

 

[dhh712]

You don't give an explanation of how a person is converted. Are you saying a person does not freely chooses to receive the Holy Spirit?

God regenerates a person's dead spirit so they can do things to the glory of God, like choose the Lord over Satan. Of course we have no ability to choose God unless he chooses us first.

Even without the Holy Spirit I think it is possible to make 'good' choices. You are just confusing a sin nature with sinful actions. Humans without the Holy Spirit can make morally good choices. Otherwise, how would you interpret Romans 2:14?

Those societally beneficial things are not done to the glory of God for unbelievers (it is not done out of love for God). Therefore they are not "good" in the eyes of God. The motivation is rooted in sinfulness (something other than God).

Not trying to be nitpicky, but humans make amoral choices all of the time. For instance, choosing whether to paint a room black or white has no moral consequence.

Definitely, not going to argue with that. Lots of things are indifferent. Still, we do all things to the glory of God. The unbeliever who paints his room a certain color, it is still rooted in sin, in selfishness. The believer on the other hand, paints his room in whatever color to the glory of God. He gives God the praise for giving him the blessing of having such an opportunity to do such a thing. We are to be thankful to God in all things, but it is much easier to be thankful to him when something pleasant is going on. So, hopefully, he's painting his room out of his own choice, not because he has to. Yet, even if it is a chore, we are to thank God for that.

 

[FireDragon76]

I don't think God's sovereignty means he determines everything that happens. Also, the Calvinists have the concept of God having two wills, a permissive will and a perfect will. Perfect will are God's ideals in general, but his permissive will is what actually happens.

 

[ExodusMe]

I don't think God's sovereignty means he determines everything that happens. Also, the Calvinists have the concept of God having two wills, a permissive will and a perfect will. Perfect will are God's ideals in general, but his permissive will is what actually happens.

God's sovereignty isn't meant to mean he determines everything that happens, but it does imply that everything that happens is permitted by him. Why would God need two wills? That seems kind of poor doesn't it? It kind of weakens God's power because it is as if things happen that are outside of his control, so he compromises and makes it permissible. It also makes evil non-redeemable because God is forced to permit it, but doesn't have the power to prevent it. What if God had the power to prevent it, but he permits evil for morally sufficient reasons? I think that is a better explanation. Think about Revelation 13:8 and how it was determined before the foundation of the world that Christ would be slain. It sounds like it was in God's perfect will to slay Christ and redeem humanity from their sins. I might be misunderstanding so please clarify if necessary. God bless