Southern Baptist truth founded on sand or biblical truth?

[ImSoBlessed]

He didn't lose His deity by being clothed in flesh. See Colossians 2:9

its talking about the risen Christ

 

[vanshan]

i don't care what your church believes..the Word was made flesh Christ came on the earth as man not as God....he stepped from his throne and embodied a physical being...God doesn't die. doesn't eat doesn't sleep... but Jesus did all those things because he was a man...

Psa 121:4 Behold, he that keepeth Israel shall neither slumber nor sleep.

You are very wrong in these assumptions. I do not speak from my own authority, because I'm just a likely as you to get it wrong, but the Church has in full concensus condemned this belief. Not just the Orthodox Church, but almost all Protestant denominations.

Basil

 

[ImSoBlessed]

guess what ya'll remeber the story how jesus was tempted by satan right? well God cannot be tempted..

Jam 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

 

[Sinai]

And now we finally get to what is apparently really sticking in Mr. Carlton's craw: If individuals have the right to study the scriptures for themselves, to seek the Holy Spirit's guidance, and to think for themselves instead of being required to follow whatever interpretation their church leader dictates, they might come to a different interpretation than Mr. Carlton or some other church leader wants them to believe. I suspect that the Taliban would agree with Mr. Carlton on this point.....

The Orthodox Church would condemn anyone following the dictates of a "church leader" unless those teachings were confirmed by the universal Church and shown to be the truths established by Christ and maintained as the deposit of faith passed down from the beginning. We are not the Roman Catholic Church--we don't believe any church leader has the ability to change the truth established by Christ, as I believe the popes have.

Basil

My comment was a relatively generic one directed toward any religious organization that discourages its members from searching the scriptures, prayerfully seeking the Holy Spirit's guidance or otherwise thinking for themselves; it was not meant to reference any church that does not do those things. Thank you for making the distinction with regard to your church.

 

[Sinai]

Not according to Southern Baptist doctrine. The sovereign is God--not the individual, not some church leader, but God.
Mr. Carlton may be referring to Baptists' historical support for religious liberty for all persons. As Dr. Herschel H. Hobbs wrote in his book The Baptist Faith and Message: "[Baptists] insist upon the lordship of Jesus Christ and the authority of the Scriptures. But they also insist that every man shall be free to decide for himself in matters of religion. Baptists have ever been the champions of soul freedom, not for themselves alone but for all men. Thus it is that Baptists believe that a person has the right to be a Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, Roman Catholic, Jew, infidel, atheist, or whatever he chooses to be. Baptists believe that they are under divine compulsion to preach to all men the gospel as they understand it. But they endeavor to win men by persuasion through the power of the Holy Spirit, not through coercion of any kind.

"So in reality Baptists are the most broad-minded of all people in religion. They grant to every man the right that he shall be free to believe as he wants. But they insist upon the same right for themselves. The moment that a Baptist seeks to coerce another person--even another Baptist--in matters of religion, he violates the basic belief of Baptists."

This should help explain the other quotations and statements set out in your OP. It might also be noted that Baptists and Protestants are not alone in changing stances or interpretations over the centuries. Perhaps the primary differance is not that changes occur, but rather in the manner the denominations make those changes. Most Christian denominations' policies or creeds tend to be set out by that church's leader or leaders--whether such leader be called a president, priest, prophet, pope or other term (which does not necessarily have to begin with the letter P, by the way). Baptists tend to empower from the bottom up instead of from the top down--but that does not mean that any of those denominations is not under the overall direction of God through the Holy Spirit.

Again, Mr. Carlton seems to be missing the mark. The objections that many Baptists (and some other Protestants) have to pledging allegiance to a man-made creed or to placing that creed in a higher position than the scriptures themselves is not necessarily that they disagree with any of the contents of that creed. Rather, the objection is with the way creeds and other definitions have historically been used by various churchs and church leaders to coerce others to march in lock step with what that church leader wants them to do and believe. Again, Baptists have historically believed in religious freedom for all people--not in forced dogma.

And now we finally get to what is apparently really sticking in Mr. Carlton's craw: If individuals have the right to study the scriptures for themselves, to seek the Holy Spirit's guidance, and to think for themselves instead of being required to follow whatever interpretation their church leader dictates, they might come to a different interpretation than Mr. Carlton or some other church leader wants them to believe. I suspect that the Taliban would agree with Mr. Carlton on this point.....

Wow, you managed to read a lot into that quote. I suspect you were just looking for way to jump on your soap box with your own accusations.

And is referencing the Taliban the new substitute for Nazi?

Sorry you apparently think I mischaracterized something Mr. Carlton said. If you will explain what you think I mischaracterized, I will attempt to respond. But thank you for sharing your thoughts in any event.

And no, I would not necessarily characterize the Taliban as being "the new substitute for Nazi"--though both of those groups went to rather extreme lengths to control the thoughts and actions of other people and to discourage free thought that might differ from the official established policy or edicts.

 

[mysteryman]

S A N D

 

[Richard]

Ok well this thread has gotten wayyyyy off topic, but here is my take on the orginal post.

I go to a Southern Baptist Church. Before going there I was going to Assembly of GOd, then A Methodist Church, and then a Prespreterian ( sorry for my misspelling ). This SBC is the greatest church i've been to. Speaking of Biblical Truth, I believe that the SBC speaks and is founded on Biblical Truth and I am insulted for others to think less.

 

[vanshan]

I go to a Southern Baptist Church. Before going there I was going to Assembly of GOd, then A Methodist Church, and then a Prespreterian ( sorry for my misspelling ). This SBC is the greatest church i've been to. Speaking of Biblical Truth, I believe that the SBC speaks and is founded on Biblical Truth and I am insulted for others to think less.

No offense intended, but I do think we need to examine things carefully. I've attended several denominations also and they can be really misleading. Most of them give your tons of scriptures for everything they believe, so they seem Bible-based, but they often are mis-interpretting scripture! I was in the charismatic movement for a few years and whew! We must examine our faith to make sure we haven't slid off course.

Basil

 

[zaire]

We are warned in scripture that false prophets and wolves would be there from the beginning as well, and striking the flock from within seemingly.
So "existed from the beginning" means little to nothing.

Well said.

And this doesnt mean that the Church ever ceased to exist.

 

[S Walch]

Well said.

And this doesnt mean that the Church ever ceased to exist.

Well, people are in disgreement on what 'The Church' Actually is.

To me, wherever there has been a Christian, there has been the church.

As all of the christians in the world make up The Body of Christ - aka - The Church.

Edit:

...and to actually answer the Op:

When i think of the "Southern Baptists" I am automatically reminded of the Caner brothers.

And if the Caner brothers are representatives of the SBC, I don't have much reason to doubt that they're preaching the truth due to what I've read/heard come out of the Caner brothers mouths.

 

[Metanoia02]

i don't care what your church believes..the Word was made flesh Christ came on the earth as man not as God....he stepped from his throne and embodied a physical being...God doesn't die. doesn't eat doesn't sleep... but Jesus did all those things because he was a man...

Psa 121:4 Behold, he that keepeth Israel shall neither slumber nor sleep.

If Jesus is not God then His death has no power for our redemption. Kind of ruins that whole Easter thing.

 

[mysteryman]

all churches are faltered, can you ever read you Bibles or are THEY just, dust on the shelf.


READ REVELATION CHAPTERS ________TWO AND THREE

ALL CHURCHES ______________- CAN'T YOU READ ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL 7 ALL 7 ALL 7 ALL 7 ALL7 ALL 7



WHY THEN DOES THE BOOK OF REVELATION EXIST ?


FOR JESUS TO COMPLETE WHAT WAS PROPHESIED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



H ____________________ELL____________________O


ALL SEVEN ALL SEVEN________ ALL _________________CORRUPT _______ BY WHO ?



EVIL PRESIDENTS EVIL KINGS ___________ FALSE PROPHETS

 

[ScottBot]

all churches are faltered, can you ever read you Bibles or are THEY just, dust on the shelf.


READ REVELATION CHAPTERS ________TWO AND THREE

ALL CHURCHES ______________- CAN'T YOU READ ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL 7 ALL 7 ALL 7 ALL 7 ALL7 ALL 7



WHY THEN DOES THE BOOK OF REVELATION EXIST ?


FOR JESUS TO COMPLETE WHAT WAS PROPHESIED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



H ____________________ELL____________________O


ALL SEVEN ALL SEVEN________ ALL _________________CORRUPT _______ BY WHO ?



EVIL PRESIDENTS EVIL KINGS ___________ FALSE PROPHETS

Not all churches faltered, for Christ said that His Church would be able to withstand the gates of hell.

 

[racer]

Not all churches faltered, for Christ said that His Church would be able to withstand the gates of hell.

Which simply means that no matter the trials and tribulations, the church will endure to the end. He never said the Church would be infallible, never err, never struggle . . . just that in the end the Church will still be here.

 

[S Walch]

all churches are faltered, can you ever read you Bibles or are THEY just, dust on the shelf.


READ REVELATION CHAPTERS ________TWO AND THREE

ALL CHURCHES ______________- CAN'T YOU READ ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL 7 ALL 7 ALL 7 ALL 7 ALL7 ALL 7



WHY THEN DOES THE BOOK OF REVELATION EXIST ?


FOR JESUS TO COMPLETE WHAT WAS PROPHESIED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



H ____________________ELL____________________O


ALL SEVEN ALL SEVEN________ ALL _________________CORRUPT _______ BY WHO ?



EVIL PRESIDENTS EVIL KINGS ___________ FALSE PROPHETS

Someone needs to re-read Chapters 1-3 of Revelation again.

Especailly Chapter 3: 7-13

The Message to the Church in Philadelphia
7 "Write this letter to the angel of the church in Philadelphia. This is the message from the one who is holy and true. He is the one who has the key of David. He opens doors, and no one can shut them; he shuts doors, and no one can open them.

8 "I know all the things you do, and I have opened a door for you that no one can shut. You have little strength, yet you obeyed my word and did not deny me. 9 Look! I will force those who belong to Satan--those liars who say they are Jews but are not--to come and bow down at your feet. They will acknowledge that you are the ones I love.

10 "Because you have obeyed my command to persevere, I will protect you from the great time of testing that will come upon the whole world to test those who belong to this world. 11 Look, I am coming quickly. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take away your crown. 12 All who are victorious will become pillars in the Temple of my God, and they will never have to leave it. And I will write my God's name on them, and they will be citizens in the city of my God--the new Jerusalem that comes down from heaven from my God. And they will have my new name inscribed upon them. 13 Anyone who is willing to hear should listen to the Spirit and understand what the Spirit is saying to the churches.


As you will notice, Christ has nothing to falter with this church!

 

[ScottBot]

Which simply means that no matter the trials and tribulations, the church will endure to the end. He never said the Church would be infallible, never err, never struggle . . . just that in the end the Church will still be here.

And the Church is the brideof Christ, which has been created and perfected through Her Bridegroom which means that it will do much more than just endure, it will be victorious over it.

 

[Sinai]

Not all churches faltered, for Christ said that His Church would be able to withstand the gates of hell.

If I recall my military training and strategy correctly, the gates usually are what are being attacked rather than what is doing the attacking. Didn't Christ expect us to be on the offensive rather than the defensive in that particular quotation?

 

[mysteryman]

To S Walch 7 Co



Let Me Speak To You Of This Church Of Phiiladelphia. That Hath The Key Of David , It Is Of The Synagogue Of Satan , Which Say They Are 'jews'.

This Church Is Not A Church Like All Others Addressed This Is Of The Jews. It Is Not Whole Their Leaders Are Corrupt But There Are A Handful That Keep His Word, And He Will See To It That They Are Kept And Others Will Come To Worship With Them Because They Have Kept Their Patience In Faith.

________ The Head Was Still Corrupt. It Was Not That The Head And All It's Members Are The Methodists , Or Catholics. Or Entire Christian Band.

The Jews Hold The Key Of David , He Is Their King Of Kings?
Are You Of The Jews?_________ Key Words David And Synagogue

 

[elizabethevangeline]

Sorry you apparently think I mischaracterized something Mr. Carlton said. If you will explain what you think I mischaracterized, I will attempt to respond. But thank you for sharing your thoughts in any event.

And no, I would not necessarily characterize the Taliban as being "the new substitute for Nazi"--though both of those groups went to rather extreme lengths to control the thoughts and actions of other people and to discourage free thought that might differ from the official established policy or edicts.

I felt you mischaracterized the author's motives, and comparing his motives to that of the Taliban was rather inflamatory to me.

I really had nothing more to add but to say "tone down the rhetoric". I should have been more direct instead of sniping at you.

 

[Blackhawk]

you guys call mary mother of god but she is not the Mother of God...when she had Jesus he was man...he came to this earth as a man not as God....

I once thought as you do. I actually posted here in CF against giving Mary the title of Teokotos or mother of God. I said much the same thing as you do. That God was not what was born but Jesus the man. And it is true that God existed before Jesus was born into this world. However Jesus is one subject. He is not made up of two independent parts but two natures joined together but not mixed or mingled together. Jesus was the God man. He was God who became human. He did not stop being God but he was fully human. So he was born. And God was physically born. God was not brought forth into existence through Mary. However she is the mother of God. And this is not just something that the Orthodox church or the RCC believes. This is part of what it is meant to be orthodox. Nestorians are heretics. I think you mean well but you need to research this more and see why it is christologically and soteriologically necessary.