Source: Most service members surveyed don't care about DADT repeal

[Chaplain David]

Homosexuality does not exist in the Bible, it was invented in 1900 A.D., as much as you all would like to believe God is on your side. Jesus also never said a word about it.

proof please

Regardless, we're not talking about an act. Sexual activity is against military law no matter who it is with.

Howso?

Whether it be straight or gay. We're talking about the orientation and attraction - which is neither a choice, nor controllable and has no bearing on the military.

We all have burdens to bear.

Not to mention, I bet plenty of the so called straight military members are more likely to be bisexual.

Wasn't my experience. Proof?

Every other military in NATO can handle serving along side openly gay people - why can't the "love your neighbor", "Christian" American military? Gays are already serving in the military, you just don't know for sure who they are. So how would knowing who they are change anything, if they've already been doing their job quite well for all these years?

Our society and attitudes are more conservative than the countries you quoted and most of them are not Christian to the degree that we.

It's homophobia, and nothing more. You're fine living in denial pretending they don't exist, despite them being there already. If they could actually admit they are gay, you would have to acknowledge they exist.

I know a couple of gay guys in the service close to where I live. They have it kind of rough and are quite protective and necessarily secretive of their ""gay"" orientation. Their in a unit that is quite macho and where the majority of men do not care for homosexuality.

What was your experience with gays when you were in the military?

 

[Chaplain David]

You might want to read a little more carefully, since Jesus never said a single word on sexual orientation.

He did, however, eat and stay with the filth of society - the ones the conservative religious folk were too good to be around. History seems to be repeating itself. Which gives me very strong reason to believe Jesus is disgusted by right wing Christianity. He would never approve of treating gays the way you guys do.

I read careful enough to go to seminary and become ordained in my denomination brother. The Jesus argument is frequently used as an ok for homosexual behavior in forum debates. However when one considers 2 Timothy 3:16 then you really can't cut Paul's writings against homosexual behavior out of either scripture or the argument. (All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,) You're not going to start with the koine greek argument are you?

 

[Jase]

proof please

Proof of what? That "homosexuality" is not mentioned in the Bible? Orientation wasn't discovered until 1900 A.D., look it up. The only behavior that is discussed in the Bible is pagan sex rituals.

Howso?

The military code of justice forbids any kind of sexual activity while on duty.

We all have burdens to bear.

No doubt your burdens don't make you hated by all of humanity.

Wasn't my experience. Proof?

Wasn't making a claim of fact - merely an opinion.

Our society and attitudes are more conservative than the countries you quoted and most of them are not Christian to the degree that we.

And what part of American fundamentalism do you think is in line with Jesus' teachings? Conservative doesn't mean correct. In fact, the conservatives of Jesus' day were the ones he criticized the most.

What was your experience with gays when you were in the military?

I have no respect for the military. It's an archaic institution predicated on discrimination and appeals to authority. Neither of which I support.

 

[HerbieHeadley]

We all have burdens to bear. [/quote[ No doubt your burdens don't make you hated by all of humanity.

I don't worry about humanity hating, but if do worry about if the Father hates me.

 

[Jase]

I read careful enough to go to seminary and become ordained in my denomination brother. The Jesus argument is frequently used as an ok for homosexual behavior in forum debates. However when one considers 2 Timothy 3:16 then you really can't cut Paul's writings against homosexual behavior out of either scripture or the argument. (All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,) You're not going to start with the koine greek argument are you?

Seminary means nothing. They teach you the same traditions that have been around, regardless of whether they are right.

Apparently they didn't teach you proper textual analysis, since Timothy 3:16 only applies to the Old Testament. The New Testament didn't exist.

And they should have also required you to analyze Paul's writings better. Such that Romans 1 is a reference to an ethnic joke made by Plato regarding unbridled passion and Paul's audience was neither homosexual, nor was same-sex behavior the point he was trying to convey.

As for Corinthians, it's funny that the word homosexual never existed in that until the 1950s when conservative bible translators altered it to condemn gays (who were just then becoming the lepers of society). Corinthians has primarily been translated as masturbator since the time of Martin Luther. It's also been translated as kidnapper and temple prostitute.

So Seminary training means nothing to me. They don't care about truth, only tradition.

 

[Chaplain David]

No, but I may join the navy. One of my close friends is joining the Air Force and I refuse to let that guy die a more noble death then me.

And how does the stupidity of the other soldiers necessitate the expelling of the gay soldiers?

The Air Force has the best everything. The navy works horrible hours and only ranks above the Marine Corps in terms of quality of barracks, housing and services IMO.

As to your question, one has to think of unit cohesion and morale. It has to be a well functioning unit and the soldiers need to be tight otherwise it won't be successful or as succesful with it's missions as we need them to be.

 

[Ezio Auditore di Firenze]

The Air Force has the best everything. The navy works horrible hours and only ranks above the Marine Corps in terms of quality of barracks, housing and services IMO.

As to your question, one has to think of unit cohesion and morale. It has to be a well functioning unit and the soldiers need to be tight otherwise it won't be successful or as succesful with it's missions as we need them to be.

So then we should expell black people so that racists can form more cohesive units, right?

 

[Jase]

Very passionate yet one only need consider that the bottom line is that some soldiers just do not want to be around people who practice homosexual behavior and that is true for a good number of supervisors all the way up the chain of command.

Have you served in the military?

How do you know they are engaged in homosexual behavior? And honestly, that argument is pretty pathetic, since military guys are some of the most obscene people in the world, constantly bragging about how many women they scored with over the weekend. Promiscuity and fornication are absolutely rampant among straight military guys.

That doesn't bother you, but knowing a gay guy is there does? Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Which further solidifies our point that the dislike of gays is 100% irrational.

 

[Jase]

I don't worry about humanity hating, but if do worry about if the Father hates me.

God doesn't hate gays.

 

[Jase]

As to your question, one has to think of unit cohesion and morale. It has to be a well functioning unit and the soldiers need to be tight otherwise it won't be successful or as succesful with it's missions as we need them to be.

You are already working with them on a daily basis with no impact on unit cohesion.

 

[Gishin]

Very passionate yet one only need consider that the bottom line is that some soldiers just do not want to be around people who practice homosexual behavior and that is true for a good number of supervisors all the way up the chain of command.

Have you served in the military?

I am currently serving. What you are saying is correct, there are some soldiers who just don't want to be around it. But in my experience (in 4 bases and deployed) the majority don't care or actively want DADT to go away.

I have to put up with things in the military that I fundementally disagree with; for instance, the "invoking", I'm sure you've given plenty of those. But I shut up and color when it comes to those things. Why should the sensibilities of those who don't approve of homosexuality come into play? I'm sure they don't agree with atheists but they put up with them. And why does it make a difference with how they conduct themselves? It's not like there's no gay people in the military, they just have to lie and be paranoid no one finds out. What kind of leader would treat they're troop differently dependent on their sexuality?

 

[Chaplain David]

Seminary means nothing. They teach you the same traditions that have been around, regardless of whether they are right.

We're all entitled to opinions but the validity of seminary is vastly outnumbered by attendees, society, our churches, and higher education system.
[/quote]

Timothy 3:16 only applies to the Old Testament. The New Testament didn't exist.

This almost sounds like an ultra-dispensationalist pov and some others as well but is not correct.

And they should have also required you to analyze Paul's writings better. Such that Romans 1 is a reference to an ethnic joke made by Plato regarding unbridled passion and Paul's audience was neither homosexual, nor was same-sex behavior the point he was trying to convey.

I don't believe or accept that. Plato? Comeon.

As for Corinthians, it's funny that the word homosexual never existed in that until the 1950s when conservative bible translators altered it to condemn gays (who were just then becoming the lepers of society). Corinthians has primarily been translated as masturbator since the time of Martin Luther. It's also been translated as kidnapper and temple prostitute.

Yes these arguments are generally heard in the for and against the practice of homosexuality threads but not correct in either my training, experience or denomination.

So Seminary training means nothing to me. They don't care about truth, only tradition.

And you know this because....

 

[Gishin]

The Air Force has the best everything. The navy works horrible hours and only ranks above the Marine Corps in terms of quality of barracks, housing and services IMO.

As to your question, one has to think of unit cohesion and morale. It has to be a well functioning unit and the soldiers need to be tight otherwise it won't be successful or as succesful with it's missions as we need them to be.

This is played up more than the reality it seems. We have disagreements and fallings out in units all the time. Some people just don't like working together. They're often told the mission comes first and get over any disagreements, and those that can't are usually disciplined or removed. Why all of a sudden is this not sufficient?

 

[Chaplain David]

So then we should expell black people so that racists can form more cohesive units, right?

I guess you're not familiar with the fact that racial equality is decades ahead of that in general society and gender equality is as well (male - female).

 

[Gishin]

Not as much as you would think. Interracial marriage is still extremely taboo where I come from.

 

[Chaplain David]

This is played up more than the reality it seems. We have disagreements and fallings out in units all the time. Some people just don't like working together. They're often told the mission comes first and get over any disagreements, and those that can't are usually disciplined or removed. Why all of a sudden is this not sufficient?

If gays are openly allowed to serve we will find out what impact they have on cohesion, etc.

 

[Chaplain David]

Not as much as you would think. Interracial marriage is still extremely taboo where I come from.

We've had that in the military for a long time but in society depending on where you live I agree with you.

 

[Ezio Auditore di Firenze]

I'm not punishing anyone. But the military only works as well as it's leadership is able to lead and those being led are able to follow to the best of their ability.

And your telling me every soldier hates gays? You're realling telling me every unit would just collapse if one of the soliders was outed?

Maybe I think to highly of the Armed Forces then.

 

[Chaplain David]

Dinner time now. See y'all later and God bless.

 

[HerbieHeadley]

But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

Mark 10:6

And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,


And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Matthew 19