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Featured Sorcery?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by W2L, Sep 5, 2017.

  1. MonstersvsMartyrs

    MonstersvsMartyrs Member

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    I understand. I agree there is some corruption in the pharmaceutical companies.

    Pharmakeia has more than one meaning, just like many words do. "Right" can mean the opposite of left, or it can mean the opposite of wrong, for example. Just because pharmakeia can mean medication, that isn't necessarily its intended or only meaning. On a related note, the Latin word for love, venery, also had two means. It could mean love, or it could mean hunting. We get from this word the terms venereal disease, venison, venerate, and Venus. They all come from the same word, but are clearly different things, though loosely related concepts. "Venery" meant pursuit-of love or game. But saying you "venerate" someone doesn't mean the same as saying you want to hunt them.

    I imagine that the reason medicine and magic were linked in the word pharmakeia is because in those days, witch doctors would use drugs and herbs and poisons in their ritual magic. In fact, making poison was one of the specialties of sorcerers in times past. However, just because herbs were used in ritual magic does not make simply using the herb itself magic. Drugs and magic were closely linked, but not interchangeable. It's translated sorcery and witchcraft because that is likely what is meant by the passage in its context-the OT laws against sorcery list what kind of things are meant by the term: divination, inquiring of the dead, etc.
     
  2. tturt

    tturt Senior Veteran

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    Still don't see where post #45 intent of showing the contrast between the black magic and G_dly miracles is clear. Of course, we know that Yahweh overwhelmingly prevails but for someone who is a new believer, I think it would be confusing to them. Under the heading of black magic includes:

    Psalm 77:14
    "You art the God who works wonders; thou have made known thy might among the peoples."
     
  3. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    QUOTE="tturt, post: 71838712, member: 167292"]Still don't see where post #45 intent of showing the contrast between the black magic and G_dly miracles is clear. Of course, we know that Yahweh overwhelmingly prevails but for someone who is a new believer, I think it would be confusing to them. Under the heading of black magic includes:

    Psalm 77:14
    "You art the God who works wonders; thou have made known thy might among the peoples.
    "[/QUOTE
    True, this happens a lot every day. That is what the world is like - confusing. So don't depend on 'the world' anywhere. Depend on God and His Word, as He says to.
     
  4. tturt

    tturt Senior Veteran

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    I've tried to state the case for correction.
     
  5. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Herbology is perfectly good and godly and helpful - Herbology IS NOT pharmakeia.

    This is often used (imagined) to defend pharmakeia,
    but it is indefensible in God's Word. We can't get into this on this thread - (I think) - since it's outside the purpose of this section and the op. It was just useful, potentially, to show that YHWH says pharmakeia deceives the whole world , not that witchcraft and sorcery deceives the whole world. (who do you know deceived by witches or sorcerers anyway ? Anyone at all you know? ) (yes, there may be many, but can you identify that there are witches and sorcerers deceiving anyone you know, let alone deceiving the leaders of the country and all others? )
     
  6. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    For correction of what ? I don't understand.
     
  7. MonstersvsMartyrs

    MonstersvsMartyrs Member

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    I'm sorry if it's confusing. I wrote it for my game, in which a vice is opposed by its contrary virtue. I add a brief description of every virtue and its opposite vice and then include verses that have to do with either of them. So, for instance, love and hatred are both defined and then verses about love or hatred are listed. It was in no way intended to confuse anyone or infer that black magic and miracles are the same thing. I edited part of it out for relevance sake, but here is the full description:

    Maleficium
    Black magic, sorcery, witchcraft, divination, voodoo, occult, curse, hex, necromancy, spells, incantations, hoodoo, wizardry, jinx, conjuring, satanism. Magic or sorcery is the use of rituals, symbols, actions, gestures, and langage with the aim of exploiting supernatural forces. A supernatural intervention from the Devil or demons, or an attempt to conjure such. An evil spiritual occurrence or ritual, the opposite of miracles which are good supernatural events caused by God.

    Maleficium is a Latin term meaning "wrongdoing" or "mischief", and describes malevolent, dangerous, or harmful magic, "evildoing", or "malevolent sorcery". In general, the term applies to any magical act intended to cause harm or death to people or property. Maleficium can involve the act of poisoning or drugging someone.

    Miracles
    An act of God, either directly or through man. An event not explicable by natural or scientific laws. A supernatural intervention from God. A good spiritual event or sign.

    "Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these art the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines." 1 Corinthians 12:7-11

    Isaiah 11:2-3 speaks of seven different spirits or gifts: “And the Spirit of the Lord will rest on him—the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and the fear of the Lord. He will delight in obeying the Lord. He will not judge by appearance nor make a decision based on hearsay (called discernment).”

    Miracles commonly come in the form of one of these Gifts of the Spirit:

    Prophecy (Foreseeing the future or receiving messages from God)

    Speaking in Tongues (Praying in a language that one does not know or understand)

    Interpretation of Tongues (Ability to understand and interpret a language one has not learned)

    Word of Knowledge (Recieving knowledge from God that one could not possibly know oneself)

    Healing (The ability to heal disease or illness, usually by the laying on of hands or through prayer)

    Discernment (The ability to sense whether something spiritual is from God or the Devil, to tell if somebody is possessed and sense the spiritual realm)

    Word of Wisdom (Receiving divine wisdom from God above your own abilities)

    Gift of Faith (Receiving an increase in faith from God beyond your own abilities)

    Exorcism (The ability to cast out demons)

    Blessing (Praying for God's favor on a person, or calling for God's divine power to rest on an object)

    Wonder Working (The ability to perform signs and phenomena in God's name)

    Taming (The ability to tame wild animals)

    Gift of Tears (Holy tears that proceed from the Holy Spirit.)

    Resurrection (The ability to bring somebody back from the dead)

    Immunity (Immunity against poison)

    Dreaming (The ability to recieve dreams or visions from God or interpret dreams from God)

    Verses that have to do with Maleficium or Miracles:

    (Bible verses here)
     
  8. MonstersvsMartyrs

    MonstersvsMartyrs Member

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    Umm-yes. Son of Sam, who murdered several people, who says he was influenced to do so by witches. My brother, who dated a witch and was convinced to take some sort of potion that made him go insane. My mother, who dabbled with a Ouija board and summoned a demon that began to haunt her house. I know several people who have dabbled in witchcraft and had awful experiences, including 2 exes of mine. One was a former warlock who would not sleep at night because when he did, he would be tortured by the demons. Look up Madame Monvoisin, possibly the most prolific serial killer in history, who killed thousands of children in Satanic black masses and tried to assassinate the French king. This conspiracy, as it was called the Affair of the Poisons, was so widespread that the investigation had to be swept under the rug because there was so much artistocracy involved in the plot that there were afraid that they would have to imprison the entire government because they were all part of her cult.

    Plus, it may not happen in modern America much, but in the context of the historical period in which these passages were written in, witchcraft was FAR MORE common than medicine, and keep in mind that pharmacies weren't even around back then. Medicine as the scientific practice as we know it today didn't really exist in that era. And yes, in the time God gave these verses, it was deceiving the whole world. Most people were pagans, and they worshipped false gods and demons, and practiced magical rituals, sacrifices, and depended on omens and divination. It was the norm.

    Also, it's still the norm in a lot of developing countries even today. In Africa, for instance, and more superstitious countries, it's a fact of life. Do you know what contributed to the endangerment of rhinoceroses? The fact that people use their horns in magical rituals. Tigers suffered a similar fate. Just because you don't personally know people yourself who are involved in witchcraft does not mean there are places where it does not happen.

    What is your definition of pharmakeia? How do you differentiate between this and "herbology"?
     
  9. thecolorsblend

    thecolorsblend If God is your Father, who is your Mother?

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    I wonder about that sometimes. It's probably easier to cover that stuff up here than people think, especially if it involves the 1%.
     
  10. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Perhaps that why OC Jerusalem is referred to a spiritually Egypt by using sorcery [Rev 18:23?

    Jeremiah 7:34
    And I cause to cease from cities of [email protected], and from streets of [email protected] voice of elation and voice of rejoicing, voice of bridegroom, and voice of bride,
    to desolation the Land shall become.
    [Reve 18:23]

    Exodus 7:11
    then summoned wise men and sorcerers, and the Egyptian magicians also did the same things by their secret arts:

    Rev 11:8
    And their dead bodies lie in the street of the great City, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.


    Rev 18:23
    “The light of a lamp shall not shine in Thee anymore, and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall not be heard in Thee anymore.
    For your merchants were the great men of the land, for by Thy sorcery pharmakeia. <5331>all the nations were deceived.

    Strong's Greek: 5331. φαρμακεία (pharmakeia) -- the use of medicine, drugs or spells

    Thayer's Greek Lexicon
    STRONGS NT 5331: φαρμακεία

    φαρμακεία (WH κια, so T (except in Galatians 5:20; cf. the Proleg., p. 88); see Iota), φαρμακείας, ἡ (φαρμακεύω);
    a. the use or the administering of drugs (Xenophon, mem. 4, 2, 17).

    b. poisoning (Plato, Polybius, others): Revelation 9:21 (here WH text Tr marginal reading φαρμακῶν; many interpretations refer the passage to the next entry).

    c. sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry and fostered by it: Galatians 5:20 (where see Lightfoot) (Wis. 12:4 Wis. 18:13; for כְּשָׁפִים, Isaiah 47:9; for לָטִים, Exodus 7:22; Exodus 8:18; for לְהָטִים, Exodus 7:11); tropically, of the deceptions and seductions of idolatry, Revelation 18:23.
     
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