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Something Hard Not to Notice

~Anastasia~

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GoingByzantine: You bring up indulgences, yet this is a tread about EO, what are your contentions with them? Indulgences are irrelevant in this thread. Asking intercessions from saints can be proven biblically, what else are your contentions?

Restoremysoul: If it were up to the church you speak of then i would be bowing to a Pope, praying to saints, or buying indulgences.


How so? What am i missing?

You said that if it were up to the Eastern Orthodox Church, you would be bowing to a Pope, praying to saints, or buying indulgences.

The Eastern Orthodox Church does not recognize papal authority and has nothing to do with selling indulgences. (You can come to our Church and buy baklava next weekend. But no indulgences!)

As far as the saints, we request intercession of them (which as GB noted, is Biblical), in the same way I might ask my friend to pray for me. But I don't "pray to" a saint any more than I'd pray to my friend.

It's plain to see that you have disagreements with traditional Churches, but you might at least find out what you are actually disagreeing with and who teaches it. And if it were me, I'd actually be looking at why it is believed, just in case I might be wrong. But as it is, your posts appear as uninformed prejudice.
 
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Tzaousios

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Of course, this is what happens when people claim to be the supreme authority and to be direct successors of the Apostles. What did you expect?

Nah, I meant a different cycle.
 
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BobRyan

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Ok so you had no Orthodox friends or family and were a ...??? atheist? methodist? Baptist? that suddenly got interested in the EO?? and began to study it and then joined it?

Is that what the other two you mentioned have experienced as well?


You seriously think all the converts are due to marriage? I actually only know one person who is interested in joining because her fiancee is Orthodox. The rest came on their own, not knowing anyone.
I don't even know where a single EO church IS in my area -- how does someone just wake-up and want to join it? It gets to the question in the OP.





What in the world did they read to make them think that EO was the right way to go from being Baptist???




Ok so then "out of the blue" you and some others walked into the closest EO church and said I want to read something that would lead me to be EO??

Fine.

What was it??



Mr. Ryan, you are not hiding things very well.

I was expecting a more up-front answer to the basic question.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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Tzaousios

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Okay, Socrates, with all of the multiple question marks and repeated questions. What are you trying to tease out here? The smell of incredulity is growing by the second.
 
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James Is Back

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Restoremysoul my friend I would just bow out of this. It's you versus the Anglican,RCC and the EO and you're out numbered.

Besides it's useless trying to debate this. You're not going to convince anyone on their side about their beliefs and vice versa. Beating the dead horse comes to mind again.
 
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Restoresmysoul

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No no...your quick to quote Scripture any other time. Here you go...find the Scripture that supports your position as Byzantine asked.

No ducking around it this time, your ARE going to be accountable for a change.

Lets think logically here. If i say that i am a direct successor of the Apostles and i teach others to buy indulgences (just for one example), and others protest and say i'm wrong, would it then be logical for me to ask for a scripture to prove that im not a successor of the Apostles? Wouldn't it be my false doctrine that already proves this? So isn't your request illogical?
 
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Targaryen

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Do you have a link for that?? reference? "more words"??
How else do you describe the Spirit moving you in a direction you are meant to go?

Gas? Telepathy? GPS?

Come on Bob, do keep up for a change.
 
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GoingByzantine

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Bowing to the Pope is simply something done as a courtesy, a way of showing someone respect.

In the liturgy we bow to Christ. From the liturgy of St. John Chrysostom:

We give You thanks, O invisible King, Who by Your immeasurable power has fashioned all things, and in the greatness of Your mercy has brought all things out of non-existence into being. Look down from heaven, O Lord, upon those who have bowed their heads unto You, for they do not bow to flesh and blood, but to You, the awesome God. Therefore, O Master, grant us of these gifts present before us for our good, according to the need of each; sail with those who sail, travel with those who travel, cure those who are sick, O Physician of souls and bodies.

Seems consistent with Philippians 2:9-11

Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

You act as if we have replaced Jesus with the Pope, ridiculous.
 
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Restoresmysoul

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Show me one scripture that teaches us to pray to anyone but God. Show me one that teaches us or gives example of praying to dead people.
 
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Targaryen

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Where's your Scrpiture reference as GB asked?

Now you want to play at the logic game? Sorry but you have a question you still need to answer, we've already played your game far too much.
 
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Restoresmysoul

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Peter wouldn't allow it. It seems that if the Pope was his successor that he would follow Peters example.
 
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seashale76

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Show me one scripture that teaches us to pray to anyone but God. Show me one that teaches us or gives example of praying to dead people.

I always bring out my same old posts to repeat because it isn't worth making new ones for the same old topics. So...

I pray thee good sir, to hearken unto my post.

There are around six different Greek words that are usually translated into English as 'prayer'. These words encompass supplications, interecessions, thanksgiving, etc. Prayer to the saints IS NOT WORSHIP! I Timothy 2:4 upholds the practice of intercession for others, and we are quite cognizant of the fact that Christ's mediation is what makes intercession possible.

The saints are alive in Christ. Mary, the Theotokos (God bearer) does intercede for us through prayer, as do ALL the saints. When a person asks the Theotokos, or any other saint, to pray for them, it is just like when we ask for anyone else to pray for us. Those in the Church are ALIVE in Christ, because God is the God of the living and not the dead.

As the Paschal Troparion says: Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death, and upon those in the tombs bestowing life!

Scriptures relating to saints being alive in Christ, et cetera:


We don't pray to the dead but for the dead. Scripture supports it.


This is considered to be a direct reference to a prayer for a departed person in the NT:

In fact- historical evidence that early Christians prayed for the departed abounds (predating the NT compiled as you know it).
 
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James Is Back

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Well, four against one is hardly proper, and neither is trying to debate illogical arguments. So im done. Good night.

Yep when you're outnumbered especially in the GT it's time regardless of what you believe is true or not to say adios
 
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seashale76

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Great post Seashale, hope you don't mind if I copy it into a word document. That is a very full list of scripture supporting intercessions.

Feel free. I don't own the scriptures, that's for sure.
 
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~Anastasia~

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My apologies. My answer was not any attempt to hide anything. When I said I found the Orthodox Church online I meant ... that I read the teachings and theologies of a number of different Churches, found I was in agreement with much of what I was reading the Orthodox Church taught, was interested in attending a liturgy, .... and then I went online and found a local Orthodox Church.

And before you ask, yes, the person who I was contacted by who wanted someone to introduce him to the Orthodox Church did exactly the same. Was dissatisfied with the theologies of many different Protestant denominations, found out about the Orthodox Church and became interested by studying the history and theology, and wants to visit an Orthodox Church (and is very interested in converting).

I have only partial information from the others, but the comments sound along the same lines. Only one person I've met in the last year who is interested in the Church found it because her fiancee is Orthodox. The others all came through studying theology/history.

I hope that answers your question.
 
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Restoresmysoul

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I always bring out my same old posts to repeat because it isn't worth making new ones for the same old topics. So...

I dont agree that those scripture teach us to pray for saints to intercede for us, or that they teach us to pray for those who have passed away. I'll leave it at that, good night.
 
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