Something Hard Not to Notice

[Restoresmysoul]

Brother, Christ is in the Church.

Without the Church you would not have the Bible, it was the Apostolic Successors who put things together.

No, it was not. You guys only get credit for the Cannon. You guys always want to take credit for the Bible, but you didn't write it, and you didn't preserve it either. Its preserved in the original language surely, thanks only to scribes and inventors of the Printing Press. Should i become a Jewish Scribe as well? Or perhaps i can become a disciple of Bi Sheng or Gutenberg?

That argument is so tiresome, should i follow those who sell indulgences, or those who pray to saints? For someone who claims to be successors of the Apostles, you sure don't seem to follow them perfectly.

 

[Targaryen]

No, it was not. You guys only get credit for the Cannon. You guys always want to take credit for the Bible, but you didn't write it, and you didn't preserve it either. Its preserved in the original language surely, thanks only to scribes and inventors of the Printing Press. Should i become a Jewish Scribe as well? Or perhaps i can become a disciple of Bi Sheng or Gutenberg?

That argument is so tiresome, should i follow those who sell indulgences, or those who pray to saints? For someone who claims to be successors of the Apostles, you sure don't seem to follow them perfectly.

The canon of the Bible you read was not codified till the Church existed correct, but it also had a lot to do with preserving biblical texts and recording them prior to the printing press.

If not for the church, some of those texts, in the tongues of the Apostles or even the Jewish scribes that did not write in Hebrew but Aramaic and Koine Greek could have or would have been lost.

If not for Luther, the first Bible on the printing press would not have been achieved. Without the reformed churches, it's likely that private ownership of biblical texts would still be illegal.

So yes, you have some what of a point. But upon deeper analysis, which again you miss; the fact you have your Bible at all has as much to do with the Church then it does the Hebrew scribes and Apostles of the Church for writing them.

 

[GoingByzantine]

No, it was not. You guys only get credit for the Cannon. You guys always want to take credit for the Bible, but you didn't write it, and you didn't preserve it either. Its preserved in the original language surely, thanks only to scribes and inventors of the Printing Press. Should i become a Jewish Scribe as well? Or perhaps i can become a disciple of Bi Sheng or Gutenberg?

That argument is so tiresome, should i follow those who sell indulgences, or those who pray to saints? For someone who claims to be successors of the Apostles, you sure don't seem to follow them perfectly.

Whoa, you just upped the rhetoric exponentially. If it were not for the Church you might be reading some Gnostic gospel right now and think it is truth. The Church defended the orthodox gospels and saved meaningful epistles for use by the faithful. If there was no Church, we might all be reading the Gospel of Judas and calling it scripture, who would have been there to defend true teachings? Who? An average Joe who read orthodox gospels? Most peasants were illiterate. The bishops saved the true teachings that you now have today.

You bring up indulgences, yet this is a tread about EO, what are your contentions with them? Indulgences are irrelevant in this thread. Asking intercessions from saints can be proven biblically, what else are your contentions?

 

[Restoresmysoul]

The canon of the Bible you read was not codified till the Church existed correct, but it also had a lot to do with preserving biblical texts and recording them prior to the printing press.

If not for the church, some of those texts, in the tongues of the Apostles or even the Jewish scribes that did not write in Hebrew but Aramaic and Koine Greek could have or would have been lost.

If not for Luther, the first Bible on the printing press would not have been achieved. Without the reformed churches, it's likely that private ownership of biblical texts would still be illegal.

So yes, you have some what of a point. But upon deeper analysis, which again you miss; the fact you have your Bible at all has as much to do with the Church then it does the Hebrew scribes and Apostles of the Church for writing them.

Many, many Jews in Christs time spoke Greek. But anyway, if RC or Eo and perhaps Anglican are the successors of the Apostles, why then don't they follow their teaching? Selling indulgences? Praying to saints? bowing to Popes? Thats not what they taught.

 

[Restoresmysoul]

Whoa, you just upped the rhetoric exponentially. If it were not for the Church you might be reading some Gnostic gospel right now and think it is truth. The Church defended the orthodox gospels and saved meaningful epistles for use by the faithful. If there was no Church, we might all be reading the Gospel of Judas and calling it scripture, who would have been there to defend true teachings? Who? An average Joe who read orthodox gospels? Most peasants were illiterate. The bishops saved the true teachings that you now have today.

You bring up indulgences, yet this is a tread about EO, what are your contentions with them? Indulgences are irrelevant in this thread. Asking intercessions from saints can be proven biblically, what else are your contentions?

If it were up to the church you speak of then i would be bowing to a Pope, praying to saints, or buying indulgences.

 

[GoingByzantine]

If it were up to the church you speak of then i would be bowing to a Pope, praying to saints, or buying indulgences.

This is ridiculous, as I already mentioned this is not a thread about the Catholic Communion. You can start a separate thread if you want to talk indulgences, the Pope, etc. . I would be glad to post there in defense of my church, but this is a thread about the EO.

The EO do not hold the Pope in any honor currently, they do not have indulgences, and praying to saints is biblical. What is your problem with them? Is chanting psalms, reading scripture and maintaining the sacraments of the bible a problem to you?

 

[Targaryen]

Many, many Jews in Christs time spoke Greek. But anyway, if RC or Eo and perhaps Anglican are the successors of the Apostles, why then don't they follow their teaching? Selling indulgences? Praying to saints? bowing to Popes? Thats not what they taught.

Why do you sit at home and think your church is a TV screen and a bible you argue against the Church's role in it's creation? Just as relevant as your questions towards the apostolic churches.

RC's believe in the Pope's direct decending role from the hands of Peter, Christ's chosen Apolstolic leader prior to his Ascension.

The Apostolic churches pray for intercession from the saints as we pray intercession for others.

Selling indulgences does not happen much nowadays and only by special dispensation on holy days in the RC tradition. It's not a wide spread practise outside of the RC and even not widely practised in the RC nowadays.

As for Jews, sure some Jews spoke Greek. How many Latins spoke Hebrew? how many Greeks spoke Aramaic? Again, just as relevant of a question in return.

 

[GoingByzantine]

If it were up to the church you speak of then i would be bowing to a Pope, praying to saints, or buying indulgences.

You also must not know much about the early Catholic Church, no indulgences existed. That controversy has nothing to do with the era where the Catholic Church defended the gospels from gnostic heresy.

 

[~Anastasia~]

If it were up to the church you speak of then i would be bowing to a Pope, praying to saints, or buying indulgences.

Restore ... You really are embarrassing yourself. You obviously know nothing at all about the Church you want to slander.

 

[Restoresmysoul]

Restore ... You really are embarrassing yourself. You obviously know nothing at all about the Church you want to slander.

How so? What am i missing?

 

[Restoresmysoul]

You also must not know much about the early Catholic Church, no indulgences existed. That controversy has nothing to do with the era where the Catholic Church defended the gospels from gnostic heresy.

You're Churches are claiming to be direct successors of the Apostles. That's more embarrassing than anything i could possibly imagine.

 

[Targaryen]

How so? What am i missing?

Worth more of an open mind and a willingness to learn, don't you think?

 

[Tzaousios]

You're Churches are claiming to be direct successors of the Apostles. That's more embarrassing than anything i could possibly imagine.

Here we go again. The cycle has re-started itself.

 

[Targaryen]

You're Churches are claiming to be direct successors of the Apostles. That's more embarrassing than anything i could possibly imagine.

Like I just said, how bout you do some actaul research for a change. You got plenty of time to do so obviously.

 

[GoingByzantine]

You're Churches are claiming to be direct successors of the Apostles. That's more embarrassing than anything i could possibly imagine.

You are going to need scripture to back this statement up. It's "embarrassing"? Show me.

 

[Targaryen]

Here we go again. The cycle has re-started itself.

That list of self-repeating tendancies within these radicals is quite easy to predict sadly.

 

[Restoresmysoul]

You are going to need scripture to back this statement up. It's "embarrassing"? Show me.

I would examine the Churches themselves. Bowing to Popes, selling indulgences, praying to saints. The Apostles would never have done those things. What happened? Did the chain of lineage get broken somewhere?

 

[Restoresmysoul]

Worth more of an open mind and a willingness to learn, don't you think?

I would challenge you to do the same.

 

[Targaryen]

I would examine the Churches themselves. Bowing to Popes, selling indulgences, praying to saints. The Apostles would never have done those things. What happened? Did the chain of lineage get broken somewhere?

No no...your quick to quote Scripture any other time. Here you go...find the Scripture that supports your position as Byzantine asked.

No ducking around it this time, your ARE going to be accountable for a change.

 

[Restoresmysoul]

Here we go again. The cycle has re-started itself.

Of course, this is what happens when people claim to be the supreme authority and to be direct successors of the Apostles. What did you expect?