Something fun

[keras]

The six thousand year theory is one of the oldest out there. The earliest statement of it that I have personally seen is in the epistle of Barnabas, which is believed to date from around 130 A.D. It was also advanced by Irenaeus, who is believed to have published his famous work between the years 186 and 188 A.D. But it is mere speculation, and speculation has no place in Christian ministry.

BW, the 7000 year Plan of God for mankind, is far more than speculation.
It is previewed in Genesis 1, with the six days of creation and then the seventh day of rest. Two witnesses tell us that, to God in heaven, one day equals 1000 years earth time. Psalms 90:4 & 2 Peter 3:8
But the timeline as added from given Biblical time periods, is the clincher! That you choose to ignore and reject my post #17, as mere speculation, is an indictment against you. It means that you ignore, throw into history, or spiritualize any Bible passage that doesn't suit your beliefs.

For the information of those who do consider ALL of the Bible of value to us Christians, the timeline as I posted in #17, needs updating. There is now just 12 years until the end of this church age.

 

[Biblewriter]

I repeat, the7000 year timeline is mere speculation. A theory based on scripture is not a concept taught in scripture. But in this case, the theory is not even based on explicitly stated scripture, but only upon interpretations of scripture. Your interpretation could possibly be correct. But it is most certainly not a teaching of scripture.

As to the years of your timeline, you are basing it on simply adding up years as stated in the scriptural accounts. But in doing this, you are forgetting one critical and absolutely unquestionable fact. And that is that time cannot be exactly stated, or even measured. The Biblical accounts state almost all of the time periods in years. And it states these years precisely and correctly. But in Hebrew (and therefore Biblical) statements of time, the statement that someone lived or ruled "x" years meant that the person in question lived or ruled a period of time that is no longer than "x" years and no shorter than "x-1" years. (That differs from our form of time statement, in which x years means a period of time that is n less than "x" years and no more than "x+1" years.

But the problem in either case is that any statement of time contains an inherent error of an amount less than one year. So, although "x" years + "Y" years plus "Z" years adds up to "x+y+z - any amount less than 3 years."

So adding up a long series of short measurements of time does not give the overall period occupied by the entire series. It indeed does give a good approximation of the total number of years. But that is only an approximation.

This is not a denial of the absolute accuracy of scripture. It is only a denial of an interpretation of what the scriptural statements mean.

 

[keras]

I repeat, the7000 year timeline is mere speculation. A theory based on scripture is not a concept taught in scripture. But in this case, the theory is not even based on explicitly stated scripture, but only upon interpretations of scripture. Your interpretation could possibly be correct. But it is most certainly not a teaching of scripture.

But the 7000 year plan of God for mankind IS scriptural. Just because you don't like it, your opinion is: its unscriptural. And you don't like it because you are like others who can't accept the imminence of soon to happen dramatic events, that will disrupt your cozy lifestyle and force everyone to prove where they stand; in faith or refute God for not doing what they imagined He would.
Your question of the whole years as given in our Bibles, is valid from a human perspective, but not mathematically. A long series of years like we have, that may be shorter or longer by a few months, even up to a year each way, statistically cancel each other out.
Anyway the fact is; they are what we have been given. Are you going to start questioning other Biblical facts next?

Your rejection of the 7000 year plan of God for mankind, puts you outside the mainstream of scholarly thought, as most ECF's and todays Bible studiers, believe it.

 

[Biblewriter]

Your rejection of the 7000 year plan of God for mankind, puts you outside the mainstream of scholarly thought, as most ECF's and todays Bible studiers, believe it.

You are mistaken abut what "the mainstream of scholarly thought" is on this point. But that is beside the point. "The mainstream of scholarly thiught" was what condemned the Lord Jesus to be crucified. What some men think, what most men think, or even what all men think, is meaningless. The only thing that counts is what the Bible says. And the Bible most absolutely neither says nor teaches, at any place, a seven thousand year timeline. This is 199% pure interpretation. It may be correct. But at least the test will come very soon. For if the Lord has not come by December 31, 2017, just five and a half months from now, your theory will be proven to be incorrect.

 

[VARZR]

You are mistaken abut what "the mainstream of scholarly thought" is on this point. But that is beside the point. "The mainstream of scholarly thiught" was what condemned the Lord Jesus to be crucified. What some men think, what most men think, or even what all men think, is meaningless. The only thing that counts is what the Bible says. And the Bible most absolutely neither says nor teaches, at any place, a seven thousand year timeline. This is 199% pure interpretation. It may be correct. But at least the test will come very soon. For if the Lord has not come by December 31, 2017, just five and a half months from now, your theory will be proven to be incorrect.

He is saying that 6000 years is up on 2029.5. So you guys have a dozen more years to bicker about this.

 

[parousia70]

I hate to throw a wrench in your fun speculation game, but what do you do with psalm 90:4?

It states that not only is 1000 years to God as a day, but it also states 1000 years to God is as a "watch in the night". Now a Hebrew "watch in the night" lasted anywhere between three and six hours… What does that do to your calculations? Or should we just ignore, toss out, redact, excise or otherwise remove that scripture from our Bibles?

 

[keras]

It states that not only is 1000 years to God as a day, but it also states 1000 years to God is as a "watch in the night". Now a Hebrew "watch in the night" lasted anywhere between three and six hours… What does that do to your calculations? Or should we just ignore, toss out, redact, excise or otherwise remove that scripture from our Bibles?

Psalms 90:4 is written as a Hebrew parallelism. The 'watch in the night' is merely emphasis.
The truth of 1 heavenly day being equal to 1000 years earthly time is confirmed by 2 Peter 3:8

Your scoffing and scathing attitude just serves to make your comments worthless.

 

[keras]

It may be correct. But at least the test will come very soon. For if the Lord has not come by December 31, 2017, just five and a half months from now, your theory will be proven to be incorrect.

Shows how little care you take in reading posts that don't suit your beliefs.
The Return of Jesus will be in 2029/2030 according to what Jesus Himself said: Luke 13:32...today and tomorrow I will be working and on the third day I shall achieve My reward. Confirmed by Hosea 6:2 After two days He will revive us and on the third day, we will live in His presence.
But there is a lot of prophesied things that must happen before that glorious Day. So I do see the celestial signs forecast to happen at the next Mo'ed of Trumpets, on September 21-22, as very significant and we all need to be prepared spiritually and physically for the very well described, prophesied events of the Lord's Day of vengeance and wrath against the nations.
That Day will NOT be 'something fun!'

 

[VARZR]

Shows how little care you take in reading posts that don't suit your beliefs.
The Return of Jesus will be in 2029/2030 according to what Jesus Himself said: Luke 13:32...today and tomorrow I will be working and on the third day I shall achieve My reward. Confirmed by Hosea 6:2 After two days He will revive us and on the third day, we will live in His presence.
But there is a lot of prophesied things that must happen before that glorious Day. So I do see the celestial signs forecast to happen at the next Mo'ed of Trumpets, on September 21-22, as very significant and we all need to be prepared spiritually and physically for the very well described, prophesied events of the Lord's Day of vengeance and wrath against the nations.
That Day will NOT be 'something fun!'

As believers I don't feel we have anything to fear from the return of Jesus and I don't think we will have to endure God's wrath.

I do think the church may have to endure persecution and problems from the natural Earthly realm and from the growing spirit of antichrist.

I expect to be on a horse following Jesus on that day. Rev. 19:14

 

[keras]

believers I don't feel we have anything to fear from the return of Jesus and I don't think we will have to endure God's wrath.

Quite right, but it is what happens before that glorious event, that we should be aware of. We don't endure God's wrath, we are protected on that Day, it is Satan's wrath we must endure. Daniel 7:25, Revelation 13:7, Revelation 12:17

I expect to be on a horse following Jesus on that day. Rev. 19:14

Good luck with that!
Revelation 19:14 clearly sates that the armies of heaven accompany Jesus and other scriptures like Jude 1:14 also say angels, or holy ones, meaning the same thing. How is it possible for people to be in heaven before the Judgement?

 

[parousia70]

Psalms 90:4 is written as a Hebrew parallelism. The 'watch in the night' is merely emphasis.

I would agree.

The truth of 1 heavenly day being equal to 1000 years earthly time is confirmed by 2 Peter 3:8

2 Peter 3:8 also confirms the truth of 1000 heavenly years being equal to 1 earth day.
Both are true for God is TimeLESS.

Your scoffing and scathing attitude just serves to make your comments worthless.

No need to get personal friend

 

[keras]

2 Peter 3:8 also confirms the truth of 1000 heavenly years being equal to 1 earth day.
Both are true for God is TimeLESS.

Rubbish! Peter does not reverse the truth of 1 heavenly day being equal to 1000 earth years. What Peter says; is again a parallelism, reinforcing the same fact. It is impossible for 1000 years in heaven to be the same as 1 earth day.
This fact of 1000 earthly years equaling 1 heavenly day, is an exact formula, proved by Revelation 8:1, the Seventh Seal time gap of 1/48th of a day, a half hour in heaven being equal to 1/48th of 1000 years on earth, that is: 'about 20 years'. This time gap after the Sixth Seal and the gathering of every faithful Christian into the holy Land, is about right for all that is prophesied to happen before Jesus Returns.

 

[parousia70]

It is impossible for 1000 years in heaven to be the same as 1 earth day.

I'm just gonna let that sit there for everyone to reflect on.

 

[keras]

I'm just gonna let that sit there for everyone to reflect on.

It doesn't seem as though anyone wants to agree with you.
But I will change my wording to: It is ridiculous and sheer foolishness to think that 1 day on earth equals 1000 years in heaven.

 

[parousia70]

It doesn't seem as though anyone wants to agree with you.
But I will change my wording to: It is ridiculous and sheer foolishness to think that 1 day on earth equals 1000 years in heaven.

It is ridiculous and sheer foolishness to think God has to wait 24 hours of "Heavenly Time" for 1000 years to pass on earth.

God is NOT bound by time. ANY time.

And how do you know God can't make one earth day seem like 1000 years to Him?

The Lifespan of a dragonfly is only 4 months, but it FEELS LIKE A LIFETIME, to the dragonfly....

Are you saying God can't feel the "expanse of a lifetime" that a dragonfly feels in those short 4 months?

 

[Waterwerx]

2 Peter 3:8 . How was the phrase written in the Bible? In what context is it found(i.e. what else is written in 2 Peter 3 )? What is the ordering of the words in that particular sentence?(In Koine Greek, this is important and was one of the ways in emphasizing a word, point, etc.)
These are some of the questions that need to be answered regarding this.

The important thing to remember is that while God has set limits and specified the functions of things within the physical universe in regards to how things work, develop, etc., God Himself is not limited by such things as He can work, for His pleasure, both within or outside of them. How we perceive the process(i.e. the passage of time) is irrelevant.

 

[parousia70]

The important thing to remember is that while God has set limits and specified the functions of things within the physical universe in regards to how things work, develop, etc., God Himself is not limited by such things as He can work, for His pleasure, both within or outside of them. How we perceive the process(i.e. the passage of time) is irrelevant.

I agree 100% with this, and this has been my entire point.

I disagree with the contention that 2 Peter 3 is teaching that "heavenly time" is specifically, unwaveringly bound to the equation 1/1000 of "Earthly time" as my friend Keras contends.

 

[keras]

I agree 100% with this, and this has been my entire point.

I disagree with the contention that 2 Peter 3 is teaching that "heavenly time" is specifically, unwaveringly bound to the equation 1/1000 of "Earthly time" as my friend Keras contends.

So basically you think Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8 are meaningless?
What then, do we make of prophesies like Hosea 6:2, Luke 31:32, Revelation 8:1?

Your denials just make a mockery of the Prophetic Word.
Nothing is in the Bible without purpose.

 

[Biblewriter]

So basically you think Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8 are meaningless?
What then, do we make of prophesies like Hosea 6:2, Luke 31:32, Revelation 8:1?

Your denials just make a mockery of the Prophetic Word.
Nothing is in the Bible without purpose.

Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8, like every other passage of scripture, are highly significant. But any person's interpretation of what these, or any other scriptures, mean, is not significant. You imagine that these scriptures are specifying a heavenly equivalence to earth time. Almost everyone else is confident that what these scriptures are saying is that time is meaningless to God.

 

[parousia70]

So basically you think Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8 are meaningless?

Of course not.
I just believe they mean something different than you do.
And I've spelled out exactly what I believe they mean.

What then, do we make of prophesies like Hosea 6:2, Luke 31:32, Revelation 8:1?

Well Revelation 8:1 was an event ordained to take place "shortly" after John was given the vision for the time was then "at hand".

But, setting that aside for now and applying your calculations, am I correct to understand that you believe this verse is saying there will be silence in heaven for 20.84 earth years (since according to you, 1/2 hour in heaven = 20.84 earth years)?

Hosea 6:2 clearly, unequivically speaks of Christ's death, burial and resurrection.

Luke 31:32 does not exist.

Your denials just make a mockery of the Prophetic Word.

Don't be confused.
My denials are of YOUR INTERPRETATION of the Prophetic Word.
If you feel mocked by them I apologize.

Nothing is in the Bible without purpose.

On that we are in lock step agreement, you and I.