Something doesn't feel right about BLM

[BNR32FAN]

IN PART. Not entirely. But systemically there is SOME reason that the median black household income is signficantly lower than whites.

One thing I find interesting is that the percentages of unemployed people of different races match the order of poverty of each race. Blacks being the highest unemployed followed by the Hispanics, then the whites then the Asians. And we already addressed the fact that blacks have the lowest percentage of college graduates. Almost as if there’s a definite pattern here. I mean you did say the numbers don’t lie, didn’t you?

Oversimplification

In other words you’d prefer not to answer the question of why it appears that only 20% of blacks live in poverty as a result of racism and yet the other 80% seem to be able to make a living just fine. Maybe people just don’t like that particular 20% of blacks because of their skin color but the color of the other 80% doesn’t bother them.

the numbers do not lie.

Numbers don’t tell the full story either and they don’t explain why.

 

[Aldebaran]

It's a marxist revolution. Consider that BLM's website is using ActBlue to handle donations. ActBlue is the campaigning arm for the DNC. Co-Founder has already admitted to being a trained marxist activist. This is a political operation under the guise of social justice.

Marxism, Morality, and Social Justice

https://www.blacklivesmatter.com/donate

ActBlue Summary | OpenSecrets

It goes along well with how they keep trying to tie President Trump to the violence, even though it was a cop vs. citizen event that kicked off the protests and resulting violence.

 

[LostMarbels]

Oh look, another "but protesters are doing protesting wrong" diversion.

Yeah, there is such a thing as shooting ones own self in the foot. Not very productive.

One of the 'things' 'issues' that people rioting right now do not consider: You had us..... You absolutely had our support, and we were willing to join your cause. Then all the stupid crap started... the rioting, the defacement of property and statues. Looting stores like common criminals. Starting fires.

Yeah, no. Not having that.

Had you/they marched in solidarity peacefully, as MLK had done, the vast majority of 2aer's, Trump supporters and the like, would have had their back. Everyone I know in my neighborhood was talking about how 'that guy was murdered'.

Oh, and the rhetoric abounded. Not black. Not white.

"That guy was murdered"

"What is this police state BS!!!"

"They think they can do that!!!"

"Get locked and loaded boys...."

Then you guys just slap us in the face, call us all racists, and throw all the momentum you gained for your own cause right out the window.

Yes, they are defiantly protesting the wrong way.

 

[istodolez]

One thing I find interesting is that the percentages of unemployed people of different races match the order of poverty of each race. Blacks being the highest unemployed followed by the Hispanics, then the whites then the Asians. And we already addressed the fact that blacks have the lowest percentage of college graduates. Almost as if there’s a definite pattern here. I mean you did say the numbers don’t lie, didn’t you?

Well, that seems reasonable...and facile. Yes, unemployment should DEFINITELY be positively correlated to poverty. So, why do you think they are unemployed?

In other words you’d prefer not to answer the question of why it appears that only 20% of blacks live in poverty as a result of racism and yet the other 80% seem to be able to make a living just fine.

No, I believe I've discussed this to death. This is why I keep hammering on about poverty rate. You want to oversimplify and say "racism must not be a thing because not every single black person has the exact same experience". That's what I mean by oversimplification.

Maybe people just don’t like that particular 20% of blacks because of their skin color but the color of the other 80% doesn’t bother them.

And, again, I will ask, why do people "just not like" 20% of the black population but clearly "just don't like" only 10% of the white population (the relative poverty rate for whites).

You see where this is going? It's going to the point where YOU need to say out loud what you think is the reason that the relative rate of any of these metrics is higher for blacks than whites.

All you're doing is moving the basis vector around.

Numbers don’t tell the full story either and they don’t explain why.

The numbers tell a very detailed story. They do what they are supposed to do: they show a systemic difference based on SOMETHING. That something is not necessarily perfectly clear but right now it most likely correlates with racism...but, again, YOU could propose something. Or is it simply enough for you to "poke holes"?

Are YOU ever required to tell us what you think this all means?

 

[istodolez]

This is not a racial issue concerning the populace.

But the populace-level data (hence the statistics) shows us that SOMETHING is amiss. And it appears at almost all levels of the data. You can look across the US or at smaller subsets within communities.

There is a separate issue of how "locally" it can be affected. That's the sort of soft racism of regular folks just acting on their unconscious biases or fully conscious biases etc. You know the phrase "think globally, act locally"? Yeah, that's it.

The citizenry. In fact, people on my side are so sick of these issues they are referred to as the swamp, and we demand their removal.

Then start with the racist currently in the Oval Office. He leads by example. He has normalized racism again with his various actions and his life-long history of racism dating back decades. Start where you can. Vote him out of office. Then move on down the list. Vote out all the politicians who push for expansion of the war on drugs and aggressive sentencing. Vote out all the politicians who peddle the "voter fraud" myth and work to disenfranchise black and poor voters. Vote out all the politicians who keep us from having universal access to affordable healthcare.

 

[istodolez]

Passport?! Wine cellar?! A safe? What world are you from?

Wow...that joke went right over your head! LOL. (I WAS JOKING. Making a joke at your expense. I was trying to point out that poor people don't have all the benefits...wow...)

Christ as my witness I do not even have a birth certificate.

Interesting. You do realize that if you lost your SS card you would have to get a birth certificate in order to replace it. Good luck. Arrange with Sy to borrow the truck and get one ASAP.

I prove who I am with bills, SS card and a state ID.

Where did you originally get your SS card and your "state ID"?

It can be done. Just stop making exscuses.

It's like you didn't even read what I wrote. As per usual.

Wow.

 

[jardiniere]

It's the black activist groups that seem to have a low opinion of them. They're the ones who try to convince their members that they can't do things for themselves, and therefore need activist groups, welfare states, the DNC, and preferential treatment to just break even. Maybe even some outright violence and criminal behavior and property destruction in order to get some ra 'spect.

No, it's the people that think blacks are controllable who have the poor opinion. The prerequisite to being controlled is to be controllable. People who think blacks are controlled by one party or another necessarily think blacks are controllable. Which means they think black person's ability to control their own destiny is less than... someone that's not controllable. So. Is being controllable good? I really don't get that impression from all those folks that think blacks are being controlled.

 

[istodolez]

It's a marxist revolution.

No it isn't. Here's what they say the stand for (HERE)

Look, all BLM wants is for us to collective remember that black lives are as important as white lives. That's it. But more to the point isn't it terribly offensive to denigrate someone's position by trying come up with some "hidden agenda"?

For a moment let us look at your faith. Do you really believe in Jesus as your savior? Are you really a Baptist? If I look at Luke 6:31 I see that what you have done here is tell me that you want OTHERS to question your motives in your beliefs. Would you not be offended if someone decided that they disagree with your faith so they make up some strange conspiracy in which they claim you really don't believe as you say you do.

It is patently offensive. Now, if, over the course of time you find out there IS reason to believe that the vast majority of BLM is somehow wishing to destroy Capitalism, then fine, have that out. But connecting the strings through something related to someone who is associated with a group whose services are used to coordinate fund raising seems a bit strained.

Can you, possibly, imagine listening to what people actually SAY they want and assuming the best? Or is it necessary to start from a position of hatred and mistrust? Is that how Christ would approach it?

I'm not saying there aren't bad people in BLM. There are bad people in everything (including your own faith!). But it doesn't change the motives of the movement and the ideals.

 

[Aldebaran]

No, it's the people that think blacks are controllable who have the poor opinion. The prerequisite to being controlled is to be controllable. People who think blacks are controlled by one party or another necessarily think blacks are controllable. Which means they think black person's ability to control their own destiny is less than... someone that's not controllable. So. Is being controllable good? I really don't get that impression from all those folks that think blacks are being controlled.

You just made an excellent case against the man who wants to be the next president--Joe Biden.

'If you have a problem figuring out whether you're for me or Trump, then you ain't black'

 

[jardiniere]

You just made an excellent case against the man who wants to be the next president--Joe Biden.

'If you have a problem figuring out whether you're for me or Trump, then you ain't black'

I agree with you. Biden is an awful choice. But Trump is worse.

 

[rjs330]

Yes, they will manage just fine--but they will rightly be annoyed that they have to go to the extra trouble to deal with bumbling attempts by racists to make it harder for them to vote.

You have zero evidence that ID laws are racist. Or those passing those laws are racist. Shame on you for making unsubstantiated allegations. That could be considered brearong false witness.

 

[Aldebaran]

I agree with you. Biden is an awful choice. But Trump is worse.

I hear that all the time, but it's not much of an argument. A guy like Biden who makes claims that counter what his cheerleaders say they like in a president isn't much of an alternative to Trump. If we end up with Biden, then his supporters will end up with what they say they don't like. But at least they'll be able to continue complaining for another 4 years. Perhaps that's what they like.

 

[rjs330]

What you have just described is the very definition of institutional racism. Modern institutions fail to mitigate the lingering effects of overt racism of past practices. You can blame the Democrats if that comforts you, and I don’t doubt they’re largely to blame (Clinton’s crime bill was absolutely horrific, for example) but pointing the finger doesn’t actually help. It’s reactionaries and conservatives who typically oppose the type of reform — almost exclusively introduced by Democrats — and social programs proposed to reduce the institutional racism that currently exists.

What laws are on the books that specifically target blacks to keep them from the opportunities that they could have if the laws weren't there?

Clinton's bill only was bad for blacks because of the criminal behavior of those that commit crimes. If they didn't commit crimes it would have no effect on them. The law did not target black people. It targeted criminals.

So what reform is really needed? What laws needed need to be reformed that are currently targeting black people?

 

[LostMarbels]

shows us that SOMETHING is amiss.

I agree to what you are saying, but as an example, what is going on in California is not a race issue. People defecating in stores and the side of roads is not a race issue. It seems you want to keep separating only one group from issues every race encounters.

Where did you originally get your SS card

My mom in 1975 at my birth. (around about)

and your "state ID"?

I needed 2 forms of identification back in the early 2000's to get a job working for the county.

 

[rjs330]

If justice in the USA were actually blind I would 100,000% agree with you on "don't do the crime" approach. But that's the whole point of the conversation. It isn't. Now a lot of the injustice is economically linked but there's also a significant racial component.

A white kid from the suburbs is caught dealing pot. A black kid from the inner city.

1. The white kid is far more likely to get a slap on the wrist from the judge if its his first offense

2. The black kid, if he is less well off than the white kid, will face a DA's office that desperately wants "plea deals" as opposed to jury trials. The less well-off black kid will be stuck with a public defender who is overworked and not giving top priority to all cases. The DA's office will scare the black kid by using a tactic in which they hypothesize a bunch of charges that they might level against the kid that will convince the kid that they face the very real possibility of decades in prison so they cop a plea.

So tell me why George Floyd died. I watched the video tape.



Perhaps you can show us some examples and then show us how common it is for white people to be killed on the street by strangulation by police officers vs black people. That would be much appreciated.



I wonder why that is....



I have certainly never said that nor do I believe that to be the case.[/QUOTE]

Why don't you find them. You won't be able to find them because it's not news worthy. It's no splashy. It's much more antagonistic to create stories on blacks being killed. No one cares if it's a white guy. It doesn't fit the cops are racist agenda.

And you here nothing about the fact that black cops are more likely to shoot black people than white cops are. You dont hear that either. Cause it's not part of the agenda of racist white cops killing unarmed black people.

 

[LostMarbels]

No, it's the people that think blacks are controllable who have the poor opinion. The prerequisite to being controlled is to be controllable. People who think blacks are controlled by one party or another necessarily think blacks are controllable. Which means they think black person's ability to control their own destiny is less than... someone that's not controllable. So. Is being controllable good? I really don't get that impression from all those folks that think blacks are being controlled.

Ok, think about someone like Candace Owens. Or any black individual that speaks out against BLM. How are they received by the black community, and how does that tie into social control?

 

[Speedwell]

You have zero evidence that ID laws are racist. Or those passing those laws are racist. Shame on you for making unsubstantiated allegations. That could be considered brearong false witness.

Technically not racist. Those with an underhanded purpose have primarily been aimed at persons thought likely to vote Democratic--that minorities frequently belong to that class of person is more circumstantial than racist. And some voter ID laws are actually honest attempts to prevent voter fraud. But some are not; those which have been imposed at the last minute before a major election, for instance. Those which require a form of ID which the poor (including minorities) are less likely to carry routinely carry which are only available at a few locations with limited hours, for another.

 

[LostMarbels]

Those which require a form of ID which the poor (including minorities) are less likely to carry routinely carry which are only available at a few locations with limited hours, for another.

I get this point. As I have asked before how do we address this?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Well, that seems reasonable...and facile. Yes, unemployment should DEFINITELY be positively correlated to poverty. So, why do you think they are unemployed?

Could be any number of reasons. Physically incapable, mental health issues, drugs, wanted by the authorities, laziness, not willing to take something outside of their area of expertise. These are just a few possibilities but I’m sure there are more.

 

[BNR32FAN]

What laws are on the books that specifically target blacks to keep them from the opportunities that they could have if the laws weren't there?

Clinton's bill only was bad for blacks because of the criminal behavior of those that commit crimes. If they didn't commit crimes it would have no effect on them. The law did not target black people. It targeted criminals.

So what reform is really needed? What laws needed need to be reformed that are currently targeting black people?

Excellent question. I’m anxious to hear about these laws.