Something doesn't feel right about BLM

jgarden · Jun 23, 2020

Something doesn't feel right about BLM

Americans hold the Founding Fathers and those who fought in the Revolutionary War in high esteem but the grievances of the colonists pale in comparison to the treatment "blacks" have received over the past 400 years!

If the British authorities had been more conciliatory to the colonists' demands, there would have been no need for a violent revolution, as was the case when Canada becoming a nation in 1867!

Even after the Civil War, "Black" Americans have been treated as 2nd class citizens in their own country for 150 years - it could be argued that they have been remarkably peaceful in their struggle for equality, especially when compared to their "white" counterparts!

LostMarbels · Jun 23, 2020

jgarden said:
Even after the Civil War, "Black" Americans have bee 2nd class citizens in their own country for 150 years

And who passed that legislation? Where are the "Black codes" from?

LostMarbels · Jun 23, 2020

jgarden said:
Americans hold the Founding Fathers and those who fought in the Revolutionary War in high esteem but the grievances of the colonists pale in comparison to the treatment "blacks" have received over the past 400 years!

What blame is laid at their own feet, for continuing to sell members of their own race into slavery, even in current day 2020? 400 years of abducting your own kind to be sold into chattel slavery. At what point does that become a matter of personal accountability?

Sparagmos · Jun 23, 2020

BNR32FAN said:
Who said the color of their skin is related to their lack of motivation? In a statistic like this, one race will undoubtedly have to be the lowest number, it’s inevitable. So for example if it was the Latinos then would it be because of racism that the Latinos are the lowest number of college graduates? What if it were the Asians, would it be because everyone is racist against Asians? In this particular case it just happens to be the blacks. I doubt it is in their DNA.

Then I misunderstood. Who is “they” when you said “they” lack motivation?

jgarden · Jun 23, 2020

LostMarbels said:
What blame is laid at their own feet, for continuing to sell members of their own race into slavery, even in current day 2020? 400 years of abducting your own kind to be sold into chattel slavery. At what point does that become a matter of personal accountability?

If someone attempts to sell you stolen goods, even if they come from their own family, that doesn't absolve you from becoming a willing accomplice in that crime, once you purchase them!

Once most New World natives had been worked to death or died from Europeans diseases for which they had no immunity, the colonists established a market for African slaves whose sole purpose was to generate wealth for their owners!

"White" colonists proceeded to legitimize slavery by asserting that it was self-evident that God ordained the superiority of one race over another based on their self-serving interpretation of Scripture!

LostMarbels · Jun 23, 2020

jgarden said:
If someone attempts to sell you stolen goods, even if they are from their own family, you become an accomplice in that crime once you purchase them!

Yes... both/all parties are guilty. Where is the black guilt, or accountability for their own role in these crimes?

*crickets*

RocksInMyHead · Jun 23, 2020

BNR32FAN said:
Yes there are several sources for tuition available to ALL AMERICANS regardless of color. There is also the United Negro College Fund that is exclusive to blacks. And of course I’ve already mentioned the military option.

1. There are limited funds for debt-free tuition assistance.
2. Not everyone is willing to accept debt to go to college.
3. Not everyone is aware of all of these things. If your guidance counselor doesn't tell you about the FAFSA and you don't think to look for federal aid options because you don't know that they exist, then you're out of luck. If you don't know about scholarships, you can't apply.

Tolworth John said:
The problem is that what you have just posted is not recognised and as a result the solution is not taught.

Dr Walter Williams a black economist wrote, ' escaping poverty is not rocket science. There are four steps.
Finish one's education.
Wait until married to have children. ( Yes that often means no sex )
Get a job and work at it.
Stay out of crime.

And community-based childcare for those who are right now unmarried with children helps with all of those things.

BNR32FAN said:
None of this has anything to do with racism.

As already pointed out, there are clear divides between income and race. So poverty is, at least in part, a racial issue. Place of residence is also a racial issue. There's plenty of documentation of people being driven out of a neighborhood - or not being allowed to move in - because of the color of their skin. It doesn't happen as often - and definitely not as openly - now, but the effects of the past still linger. And ultimately, minorities are disproportionately affected by inadequate school funding.

It's not necessarily active racism, but there is clearly a racial correlation here. This is due to the effects of racism in the past and the way that racism has become institutionalized in our country. The system, whether intentionally or not, definitely discriminates based on race. We can see that in the statistics.

LostMarbels · Jun 23, 2020

jgarden said:
"White" colonists twisted their Christian beliefs to legitimize slavery as supported by Scripture and the God given superiority of one race over another!

So how is selling ones own race into chattel slavery viewed by the bible; in your opinion? Do we condone it? Do we give said actions a pass?

gaara4158 · Jun 23, 2020

cow451 said:
Well, there are theses places where people shoot at you. The government leaders need to have someone else’s kids to throw in front of the enemy, right?

Or we could just not send anyone. I know it’s super unpopular to be anti-war these days, but it’s a live option.

ZNP said:
I think some are saying is that all things are not equal, that is what they refer to as racism. Obviously slavery wasn't equal and that was based on black versus white. It seems remarkable that after 150 years the difference would be so pronounced, but again that is the claim that is being made that although "slavery" ended, the racism didn't. It was Jim Crowe, it was KKK, it was a little more subtle. After the court ruling about separate but equal we might have moved towards a more equitable public school system but it still took a few more decades to help level the playing field with college admissions. Black males have gone to prison at a far higher rate than any other group, which obviously has a disastrous impact on the community. So even if all those who were convicted of the crime actually did the crime, which we know is not true, still it is clear that many of the things that were criminalized like drugs were being done by white's only when they got caught they went to rehab. Maybe it was better lawyers, maybe it was a community attitude towards the young that the blacks never had.

But whether we are talking about Jim Crowe, Separate but Equal, or the Prison Pipeline it is very clear that all things are not equal.

Exactly, and that’s where I was trying to guide my other interlocutor into.

BNR32FAN · Jun 23, 2020

gaara4158 said:
Why should the differences by race necessarily be so distinct? Shouldn’t there be no difference if all other things are equal?

No there will be a difference when you separate statistics by race. They’ll be different every time. You can’t expect all races to have the exact same numbers across the board. That’s just ridiculous.

Tolworth John · Jun 23, 2020

RocksInMyHead said:
And community-based childcare for those who are right now unmarried with children helps with all of those things.

Please be real. Yes help with child care, with financial support etc helps those in this situation now.

But

There is also no teaching that this is not how it should be, no teaching of how things should be.

It is a No Fault, No Blame culture that is making no effort to correct what is wrong.
It could be argued that they, those running these organizations do not see that anything is wrong and like the BLM organisation think that marriage and a family of husband and wife are what is wrong.

BNR32FAN · Jun 23, 2020

Sparagmos said:
Then I misunderstood. Who is “they” when you said “they” lack motivation?

They is in reference to blacks. My point was that if Latinos were the lower number would it be because of their skin color or if Asians were the lower number would it be because of their skin color? Skin color has nothing to do with the coincidence that blacks came in the lowest number of college graduates.

BNR32FAN · Jun 23, 2020

RocksInMyHead said:
1. There are limited funds for debt-free tuition assistance.
2. Not everyone is willing to accept debt to go to college.
3. Not everyone is aware of all of these things. If your guidance counselor doesn't tell you about the FAFSA and you don't think to look for federal aid options because you don't know that they exist, then you're out of luck. If you don't know about scholarships, you can't apply.

And community-based childcare for those who are right now unmarried with children helps with all of those things.

As already pointed out, there are clear divides between income and race. So poverty is, at least in part, a racial issue. Place of residence is also a racial issue. There's plenty of documentation of people being driven out of a neighborhood - or not being allowed to move in - because of the color of their skin. It doesn't happen as often - and definitely not as openly - now, but the effects of the past still linger. And ultimately, minorities are disproportionately affected by inadequate school funding.

It's not necessarily active racism, but there is clearly a racial correlation here. This is due to the effects of racism in the past and the way that racism has become institutionalized in our country. The system, whether intentionally or not, definitely discriminates based on race. We can see that in the statistics.

Yeah everyone can find plenty of excuses why they didn’t go to college but for those who actually wanted to and put in the effort to make it happen they have a degree not excuses.

BNR32FAN · Jun 23, 2020

RocksInMyHead said:
1. There are limited funds for debt-free tuition assistance.
2. Not everyone is willing to accept debt to go to college.
3. Not everyone is aware of all of these things. If your guidance counselor doesn't tell you about the FAFSA and you don't think to look for federal aid options because you don't know that they exist, then you're out of luck. If you don't know about scholarships, you can't apply.

And community-based childcare for those who are right now unmarried with children helps with all of those things.

As already pointed out, there are clear divides between income and race. So poverty is, at least in part, a racial issue. Place of residence is also a racial issue. There's plenty of documentation of people being driven out of a neighborhood - or not being allowed to move in - because of the color of their skin. It doesn't happen as often - and definitely not as openly - now, but the effects of the past still linger. And ultimately, minorities are disproportionately affected by inadequate school funding.

It's not necessarily active racism, but there is clearly a racial correlation here. This is due to the effects of racism in the past and the way that racism has become institutionalized in our country. The system, whether intentionally or not, definitely discriminates based on race. We can see that in the statistics.

FYI there are more whites living in poverty in America than all other races combined. It must be the result of racial discrimination.

U.S. Poverty Statistics

jardiniere · Jun 23, 2020

LostMarbels said:
Im not a Democrat. They are just as liable to lynch me.

My comment wasn't directed to you, but the video in your post. It's apparently not obvious to most white skinned folk that white skinned folk are, as a racial type, incredibly violent and aggressive, to such an extant as to historically subduing other skin color types.

Skin color. Holy [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], what a stupid thing to get upset about.

istodolez · Jun 23, 2020

BNR32FAN said:
My first hand experiences may be anecdotal to you but they are undoubtedly conclusive to me.

Sorry but this is a discipline I've learned over my 25+ years as a research scientist. Early on, before I understood how science worked, I often relied on "gut feeling" or "personal experience" or "one off data points" to draw larger conclusions. But that isn't useful to understand larger systems.

For instance: I was essentially paid to get my doctorate in the form of research assistantships and teaching assistantships. So am I correct in assuming that anyone who doesn't get a doctorate is lazy or crying "poor" when people get paid to get them? OF COURSE NOT! I got my doctorate in a field that had a lot of funding for graduate students. It was a rarity in the physical sciences. MOST people don't get paid to get their doctorate.

So if you prefer to write them off as lies

Well, that's just absurd. AT NO POINT DID I CALL IT A LIE! This is your basic lack of knowledge of even the core concepts we are discussing. In statistics there are always data points that lie very far away from the mean. Those aren't "lies".

Sheesh, if you want to debate a topic then you should probably understand just a BIT about the topic.

hat fine I don’t need your approval to base my own conclusions on what I have experienced first hand.

I put a lot of effort into learning statistics for my job. Apparently I did what was necessary to talk about this topic. You? Not so much, apparently. (Does that sound familiar to you?)

RocksInMyHead · Jun 23, 2020

BNR32FAN said:
Yeah everyone can find plenty of excuses why they didn’t go to college but for those who actually wanted to and put in the effort to make it happen they have a degree not excuses.

Some of them do. Others just have "excuses". To dismiss the challenges they face and reject the possibility that not everyone is capable of overcoming those challenges (for whatever reason) is pretty myopic.

BNR32FAN · Jun 23, 2020

jardiniere said:
My comment wasn't directed to you, but the video in your post. It's apparently not obvious to most white skinned folk that white skinned folk are, as a racial type, incredibly violent and aggressive, to such an extant as to historically subduing other skin color types.

Skin color. Holy [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], what a stupid thing to get upset about.

What race has not been incredibly violent and aggressive towards other races? Can you name one?

LostMarbels · Jun 23, 2020

jardiniere said:
My comment wasn't directed to you, but the video in your post. It's apparently not obvious to most white skinned folk that white skinned folk are, as a racial type, incredibly violent and aggressive, to such an extant as to historically subduing other skin color types.

That is not really true. What we have in America are political factions/ideologies. It's not really about white or black. You bring up the KKK as if it is a racial thing, when in historical fact it was created by the Democratic Party to intimidate, and even murder people that were going to vote Republican. It became a racial issue because of slavers acting out against formers slaves. But, whites are/have been killed by the KKK.

Neo Nazis are white supremacist. The KKK is a Democratic political faction that uses fear to influence politics and votes.

RocksInMyHead · Jun 23, 2020

BNR32FAN said:
FYI there are more whites living in poverty in America than all other races combined. It must be the result of racial discrimination.

U.S. Poverty Statistics

1. You appear to have misread the chart. There are 15.7 million whites in poverty, and 21.4 million for all other races combined. So you're wrong there.

2. Your premise is wrong because it's useless to compare raw numbers when there are more white people in the United States than all other races combined (which is true - see the first column).

Something doesn't feel right about BLM

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