Something coming from nothing? Evolution vs. Creation

[JCTheCreation]

Regardless of what you believe, something coming from nothing, just makes absolutely no sense. If you believe in God, well then where did God come from? If you believe in evolution, well where did the universe come from? How can something evolve from nothing? I know the Big Bang theory has been pushed in our faces to the point where people now just accept it as fact. One of the huge problems with the theory of evolution and the big bang, and even scientists agree, is that code will not evolve from matter without code. DNA code cannot evolve from nothing, which points to intelligent design. ALL code points to intelligent design. So instead of buying into the theory that something came from nothing, I have a theory of my own. But my theory isn't regarding the creation of the universe, it is concerning the origins of the Creator. I would argue that something has always been here. Yes, even before God, I believe something was here. And that something is Absolute Law. I can hear religious folks now, calling me blasphemous... It wouldn't be the first time. Lol. Anyways, an absolute law is something that can never be changed, only observed. For example, 1+1 will always equal 2. No matter how you twist it, what symbols you use, what language you speak, you cant take 1 and 1, and make it something other than 2. Another absolute law, is the law of opposites. Light and dark, hot and cold, good and evil, etc, etc. There are several of these absolute laws, but you get the point. Now, before our universe was what it is today, there was a nothingness without any physical matter. Scientists will say, before the big bang, there was just nothing. But by rules of absolute law, "nothing", must have an opposite. And the opposite of nothing, is everything. The nothingness was filled with all the things that cannot be seen. Absolute Laws and truth. I believe God is the manifestation of all these absolute laws. In the world we live in today, we are unable to see Absolute Laws because they are now built into the fabric of all physical matter. We are blinded to them by light, objects we use and the world itself. But without physical matter, it is my belief that these laws were exposed. I suppose a comparison could be made to a computer generated world or universe. In the finished product, you will see artist rendered environments, buildings, people, characters, etc. But at the foundation of the program, all you will see are lines of code. These are the laws in which the computer generated world must abide by. If you could cram enough code into a computer, like the Absolute Laws or code of the universe, there is no doubt that the computer would become self aware and begin creating for itself. Sounds like a plot from a science fiction movie, but its definitely not out of the realm of possibility. To the computers creations, the computer would be god. Absolute laws are called such, because they are unchanging and have always been here, enveloping the universe with truth. And in an infinite amount of time, eventually, I believe all these laws came together and became self aware. All these laws came together and became God. A self aware universal law with the ability to create intelligent life, create stars, galaxies and ultimately govern the universe. Like a big, self aware computer made up of the laws of the universe. God is the manifestation of Universal Law and the Creator of the universe we live in. Well, that is my thought for the day. Lol. Hope everyone is having a great day of rest. God bless!

 

[PsychoSarah]

Evolution isn't about where the universe came from, or even the origins of the first existing life, only how life changes over time. These scientific theories are not interdependent, one can be wrong without the other necessarily being incorrect (and one being correct doesn't make the other correct as well).

 

[Elendur]

...
For example, 1+1 will always equal 2. No matter how you twist it, what symbols you use, what language you speak, you cant take 1 and 1, and make it something other than 2.
...

Actually, that depends entirely on your representation of the numbers.

For example, in binary:
1 + 1 = 10

We could also change the definition of the operation or the number, though that would be less interesting cases.

Heck, we could change/remove a couple of assumptions/axioms and we would observe that 1+1=2 is no longer a necessary conclusion.

 

[Belk]

Regardless of what you believe, something coming from nothing, just makes absolutely no sense. If you believe in God, well then where did God come from? If you believe in evolution, well where did the universe come from? How can something evolve from nothing? I know the Big Bang theory has been pushed in our faces to the point where people now just accept it as fact. One of the huge problems with the theory of evolution and the big bang, and even scientists agree, is that code will not evolve from matter without code. DNA code cannot evolve from nothing, which points to intelligent design. ALL code points to intelligent design. So instead of buying into the theory that something came from nothing, I have a theory of my own. But my theory isn't regarding the creation of the universe, it is concerning the origins of the Creator. I would argue that something has always been here. Yes, even before God, I believe something was here. And that something is Absolute Law. I can hear religious folks now, calling me blasphemous... It wouldn't be the first time. Lol. Anyways, an absolute law is something that can never be changed, only observed. For example, 1+1 will always equal 2. No matter how you twist it, what symbols you use, what language you speak, you cant take 1 and 1, and make it something other than 2. Another absolute law, is the law of opposites. Light and dark, hot and cold, good and evil, etc, etc. There are several of these absolute laws, but you get the point. Now, before our universe was what it is today, there was a nothingness without any physical matter. Scientists will say, before the big bang, there was just nothing. But by rules of absolute law, "nothing", must have an opposite. And the opposite of nothing, is everything. The nothingness was filled with all the things that cannot be seen. Absolute Laws and truth. I believe God is the manifestation of all these absolute laws. In the world we live in today, we are unable to see Absolute Laws because they are now built into the fabric of all physical matter. We are blinded to them by light, objects we use and the world itself. But without physical matter, it is my belief that these laws were exposed. I suppose a comparison could be made to a computer generated world or universe. In the finished product, you will see artist rendered environments, buildings, people, characters, etc. But at the foundation of the program, all you will see are lines of code. These are the laws in which the computer generated world must abide by. If you could cram enough code into a computer, like the Absolute Laws or code of the universe, there is no doubt that the computer would become self aware and begin creating for itself. Sounds like a plot from a science fiction movie, but its definitely not out of the realm of possibility. To the computers creations, the computer would be god. Absolute laws are called such, because they are unchanging and have always been here, enveloping the universe with truth. And in an infinite amount of time, eventually, I believe all these laws came together and became self aware. All these laws came together and became God. A self aware universal law with the ability to create intelligent life, create stars, galaxies and ultimately govern the universe. Like a big, self aware computer made up of the laws of the universe. God is the manifestation of Universal Law and the Creator of the universe we live in. Well, that is my thought for the day. Lol. Hope everyone is having a great day of rest. God bless!

Wow! That is a really big wall of text that I am not going to bother trying to decipher.

So, did you address the complete dearth of evidence that anything has ever had to come from nothing?

 

[Senator Cheese]

Regardless of what you believe, something coming from nothing, just makes absolutely no sense.

Indeed, from our observation of the universe, that is a legitimate deduction.
Then again, perhaps this just proves that our observation of the universe is limited?

If you believe in God, well then where did God come from?

The LORD has said that he is: I Am that I Am (YHWH), which is interpreted to be the expression that God has existed forever and will exist forever.
I would argue that we cannot, as simple humans, ever grasp the infinity of the LORD.

If you believe in evolution, well where did the universe come from?

I believe in evolution and I see no contradiction to a godly origin of the universe.

How can something evolve from nothing?

Evolution does not make that claim. It claims that something evolves from something else.

I know the Big Bang theory has been pushed in our faces to the point where people now just accept it as fact. One of the huge problems with the theory of evolution and the big bang, and even scientists agree, is that code will not evolve from matter without code.

I don't think scientists will agree on that one. The "evolution" of genetic information has been the subject of intense study. On a molecular level, the genetic "code" isn't an encrypted instruction manual that needs to be read by a sentient being, but it is a molecular construction that allows the assembly of molecules based on a template.

I would agree that, intuitively, the evolution of genetic information would seem "highly unlikely", but I lack both the necessary knowledge in molecular biology to ascertain that claim.

If you throw thirty boxes of LEGO into the air, then theoretically all of the bricks might end up constructing a robot that can read a LEGO instruction manual. It's highly unlikely, but it's still possible.
The difference is that in terms of evolution, we're not talking about thirty boxes, but probably something more along the lines of several billion boxes. So I guess (again, I am no expert) that this would shift the probability ratio.

DNA code cannot evolve from nothing, which points to intelligent design. ALL code points to intelligent design.

See above.

So instead of buying into the theory that something came from nothing, I have a theory of my own. But my theory isn't regarding the creation of the universe, it is concerning the origins of the Creator. I would argue that something has always been here. Yes, even before God, I believe something was here. And that something is Absolute Law. I can hear religious folks now, calling me blasphemous... It wouldn't be the first time. Lol. Anyways, an absolute law is something that can never be changed, only observed.

This is an interesting concept, because it plays into the thought I once had concerning the origin of physical laws.
I used to wonder "where" physical laws were encoded. I mean, if DNA encodes biological information, then where are laws that govern gravity, for example, encoded?
Physics doesn't deal with this question because physics only observes laws and describes them. That goes for all sciences.

For example, 1+1 will always equal 2. No matter how you twist it, what symbols you use, what language you speak, you cant take 1 and 1, and make it something other than 2. Another absolute law, is the law of opposites. Light and dark, hot and cold, good and evil, etc, etc. There are several of these absolute laws, but you get the point.

I understand what you're trying to say, but I fail at seeing how this allows for the creation of a creator.

Also, our concept of opposites are deeply rooted within our nature - we consider the absence of heat to be the opposite of warm. Is the absence of happiness the opposite of happiness? Or is it sadness?
Is the absence of good evil? Or is evil an entity of its own?
There will be differing opinions, as such these can't really be considered absolute laws, or am I wrong?

Now, before our universe was what it is today, there was a nothingness without any physical matter. Scientists will say, before the big bang, there was just nothing. But by rules of absolute law, "nothing", must have an opposite.

Again, if darkness is defined as the "absence of light", then nothing should be defined as the "absence of something". That wouldn't mean that "everything" is the opposite of nothing.

And the opposite of nothing, is everything. The nothingness was filled with all the things that cannot be seen. Absolute Laws and truth. I believe God is the manifestation of all these absolute laws. In the world we live in today, we are unable to see Absolute Laws because they are now built into the fabric of all physical matter. We are blinded to them by light, objects we use and the world itself. But without physical matter, it is my belief that these laws were exposed. I suppose a comparison could be made to a computer generated world or universe. In the finished product, you will see artist rendered environments, buildings, people, characters, etc. But at the foundation of the program, all you will see are lines of code. These are the laws in which the computer generated world must abide by.

I absolutely agree that the LORD can be seen in all of his creations. And that sometimes, the precision clockwork that is our universe may mislead us to believe that everything around us is self-explanatory.

If you could cram enough code into a computer, like the Absolute Laws or code of the universe, there is no doubt that the computer would become self aware and begin creating for itself. Sounds like a plot from a science fiction movie, but its definitely not out of the realm of possibility. To the computers creations, the computer would be god. Absolute laws are called such, because they are unchanging and have always been here, enveloping the universe with truth. And in an infinite amount of time, eventually, I believe all these laws came together and became self aware. All these laws came together and became God. A self aware universal law with the ability to create intelligent life, create stars, galaxies and ultimately govern the universe. Like a big, self aware computer made up of the laws of the universe. God is the manifestation of Universal Law and the Creator of the universe we live in. Well, that is my thought for the day. Lol. Hope everyone is having a great day of rest. God bless!

Well, you have some very interesting concepts and ultimately, scripture does not comment on the time before the Creation of the earth - let alone on any time before the Big Bang or other modern scientific theories.

Nonetheless, I feel that we will never be able to understand the infinity of the LORD so long as we roam the earth. And as such, we will never comprehend that something can exist eternally.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Let's dissect this opening post.

Regardless of what you believe, something coming from nothing, just makes absolutely no sense

Well, first of all, the universe doesn't owe us any "sense". Plenty of things don't make "sense" to us. Like relativity and quantum mechanics. Nevertheless, both are very real.

If you believe in evolution, well where did the universe come from?

Evolution is a theory of biology. The origins of the universe is a topic of cosmology. I fail to see how these things are connected in any way, shape or form. Unless your only source of information is the convicted liar Kent Hovind.
In that case, I know where the connection comes from - but it's an invalid connection.

How can something evolve from nothing?

Evolution doesn't start with nothing. Evolution starts with life existing.

I know the Big Bang theory has been pushed in our faces to the point where people now just accept it as fact

Big bang is a theory. A theory is not a fact. Theories explain facts. Among the facts that big bang theory explains are the expanding universe and the micro wave background radiation.

One of the huge problems with the theory of evolution and the big bang, and even scientists agree, is that code will not evolve from matter without code

"code" has nothing to do with big bang cosmology.
And "code" in context of evolution is a word use figuratively as an analogy. They don't mean actual "code" like C++ or javascript is "code".

What they do mean is that a DNA molecule is a genotype that through biochemic processes manifests itself in a phenotype.

One can draw an analogy that C++ code is a genotype and that the office application on screen is the "phenotype" manifestation of that code. But off course, it's just an analogy. DNA is not a programming code. DNA is a just a complex molecule.

DNA code cannot evolve from nothing,

Evolution doesn't state it evolved from "nothing".

which points to intelligent design. ALL code points to intelligent design.

Literal codes, yes. Figurative code like molecules, no.

So instead of buying into the theory that something came from nothing

There is no such theory. There are a few cosmological hypothesis, like Krauss' "universe from nothing", but again - that has nothing to do with biology and everything with cosmology and theoretical physics.

Now, before our universe was what it is today, there was a nothingness without any physical matter. Scientists will say, before the big bang, there was just nothing.

Scientists don't say that at all.
Some hypothesize that and explore those hypothesis, but they don't claim it.
These days, most seem to be thinking in the direction of a Multi-verse which by itself is something like what you could call "eternal" or "infinite".

But by rules of absolute law, "nothing", must have an opposite. And the opposite of nothing, is everything.

Disagree. I'ld say to opposite of nothing is "anything" or "something".
Also, what is "nothing"? You've invoked it quite a few times now, I'ld like to see you define it.

 

[lesliedellow]

How come "absolute law" always existing causes no problems, but God
always existing does?

You are right about one thing. What you wrote is rank heresy in Christian terms.

 

[PsychoSarah]

How come "absolute law" always existing causes no problems, but God
always existing does?

You are right about one thing. What you wrote is rank heresy in Christian terms.

Absolute law, as you call it, might not have always existed. The physics of the pre Big Bang universe are a tad shaky, like when you address the physics of a black hole.

 

[Senator Cheese]

Absolute law, as you call it, might not have always existed. The physics of the pre Big Bang universe are a tad shaky, like when you address the physics of a black hole.

I would go so far as to argue that "pre-big-bang physics" are nonexistant.
I remember being taught that any information is lost in a singularity - and as such, no information from "before the big bang" is available from which to deduce.

=> However, I am no expert - if someone has more knowledge, please speak up!

 

[pgp_protector]

Hmm New User JC The Creation, First post on April First, yea...
We'll see if they come back.

 

[Michael]

Wow! That is a really big wall of text that I am not going to bother trying to decipher.

So, did you address the complete dearth of evidence that anything has ever had to come from nothing?

Er, perhaps not 'nothing', but in Gutheology, apparently everything comes from the eternal inflation deity and a couple of ounces of "primordial matter". He called the whole event the 'ultimate free lunch'.

Was Cosmic Inflation the 'Bang' of the Big Bang? - A. Guth

This borrowing of energy from the gravitational field gives the inflationary paradigm an entirely different perspective from the classical Big Bang theory, in which all the particles in the Universe (or at least their precursors) were assumed to be in place from the start. Inflation provides a mechanism by which the entire Universe can develop from just a few ounces of primordial matter. Inflation is radically at odds with the old dictum of Democritus and Lucretius, "Nothing can be created from nothing" If inflation is right, everything can be created from nothing, or at least from very little. If inflation is right, the Universe can properly be called the ultimate free lunch.

Talk about a fairytale creation mythology. Gutheology begins by claiming to defy the laws of physics.

The worst part is that is was no "free lunch" since any excess energy/mass created in the event would *necessarily* have come from his mythical, magical inflation scalar field (inflaton field). Even Guth can't keep his stories straight, and he plays fast and loose with the laws of physics.

 

[lesliedellow]

Absolute law, as you call it, might not have always existed. The physics of the pre Big Bang universe are a tad shaky, like when you address the physics of a black hole.

It wasn't me who coined the phrase "absolute law" - the OP did. Personally, I am not sure it makes much sense to postulate the existence of laws without a universe for them to apply to.

 

[PsychoSarah]

It wasn't me who coined the phrase "absolute law" - the OP did. Personally, I am not sure it makes much sense to postulate the existence of laws without a universe for them to apply to.

I agree with you.

 

[JCTheCreation]

Not an April fools joke. I plan to respond to each one of your replies later today when I get a minute. This was a post I originally posted on Facebook and got zero response from, because most of my friends seem to be more interested in what's on TV and celebrity gossip. Good to know there are some folks out there who are actually interested in this stuff. Headed to training, I will respond with a more in depth reply when I'm free. Thank you. God bless

 

[mzungu]

Regardless of what you believe, something coming from nothing, just makes absolutely no sense.

Have you heard of Dirac's equation? May I suggest you watch the excellent BBC documentary "EVERYTHING & NOTHING" by prof. Jim Al Khalili. Especially the second part "NOTHING" will answer to your question of something from nothing.

 

[Michael]

Have you heard of Dirac's equation?

Ok, I'll bite. How exactly does that particular equation let you violate the known laws of physics, specifically the law that energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only change forms?

 

[mzungu]

Ok, I'll bite. How exactly does that particular equation let you violate the known laws of physics, specifically the law that energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only change forms?

Forget it! I think you will enjoy this one: BBC - Everything and Nothing. Nothing. - Видео Dailymotion

 

[PsychoSarah]

Ok, I'll bite. How exactly does that particular equation let you violate the known laws of physics, specifically the law that energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only change forms?

Hahaha, well, at least you didn't say matter.

 

[Michael]

Forget it! I think you will enjoy this one: BBC - Everything and Nothing. Nothing. - Видео Dailymotion

Looks interesting by the way, but I probably won't finish it until after work. Thanks for the link.

 

[mzungu]

Looks interesting by the way, but I probably won't finish it until after work. Thanks for the link.

There is even a lab experiment you will find most intriguing! I do so like Jim Al Khalili. If he had presented Cosmos then I can assure you he would leave religion out of it.

Let me know what you think!