Something all YECs should read

[oi_antz]

But this is not practically true! I'm sure you have stolen something from someone before, lied and at some point, not honoured your mother and/or father. Now, you'll probably say god will forgive you if you repent, but then he can still love you if you disobey the commandments.

But what Jesus says here is true. If you love Him you will obey His commandments, and then The Father will love you and Jesus will love you and they will make their home with you. That is the truth.

 

[mulimulix]

But what Jesus says here is true. If you love Him you will obey His commandments, and then The Father will love you and Jesus will love you and they will make their home with you. That is the truth.

But you didn't really answer what I asked. If you break some of the commandments, which I'm sure you do, how is it true?

 

[oi_antz]

But you didn't really answer what I asked. If you break some of the commandments, which I'm sure you do, how is it true?

Well you have to decide whether you want to obey His commandments, or whether you don't want to obey His commandments. Pretty simple principle really. Fairly hard sacrifice to make though since we all come to love some form of sin.

 

[mulimulix]

Well you have to decide whether you want to obey His commandments, or whether you don't want to obey His commandments. Pretty simple principle really. Fairly hard sacrifice to make though since we all come to love some form of sin.

Exactly. As I said before, I'm quite sure you have broken one of the commandments before. Yet, you (I assume) still believe you will go to heaven. How can this be?

 

[oi_antz]

Exactly. As I said before, I'm quite sure you have broken one of the commandments before. Yet, you (I assume) still believe you will go to heaven. How can this be?

The mechanics of it are described in Hebrews 9 and 10. The following verse contains the exact answer to your question:

14 For by that one offering he forever made perfect those who are being made holy.

So those of us who have chosen to obey Jesus are the ones who are "being made holy". Becoming holy is a life-long process of learning and changing, just becoming more and more like Jesus through our experience of life. I think you're probably honest enough to note that not every person who confesses to be Christian is living a life of "being made holy". Why? See the parable of the sower. Some people just aren't fit to belong in the house of God, simply because they don't put enough effort into being made holy. Instead of focusing on God's concern they focus on their own.

And if you read on from verse 14 I showed you, you can see how those who are being made holy are changed from within to have the law of God written on our heart, so that being holy is our first and foremost concern. I don't know if you've noticed but I've had to go back on what I've said a few times since I joined this website, and that is not an easy thing to do. Many people come unstuck when that happens because they dig themselves into a hole of lies. It happens you know, and it's really tough to admit you were wrong but it is the only way to remain repentant right to the end.

15 And the Holy Spirit also testifies that this is so. For he says,

16 “This is the new covenant I will make
with my people on that day,[c] says the Lord:
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”[d]

17 Then he says,

“I will never again remember
their sins and lawless deeds.”[e]

18 And when sins have been forgiven, there is no need to offer any more sacrifices.

Does this raise a few more questions for you?

 

[mulimulix]

The mechanics of it are described in Hebrews 9 and 10. The following verse contains the exact answer to your question:

14 For by that one offering he forever made perfect those who are being made holy.

So those of us who have chosen to obey Jesus are the ones who are "being made holy". Becoming holy is a life-long process of learning and changing, just becoming more and more like Jesus through our experience of life. I think you're probably honest enough to note that not every person who confesses to be Christian is living a life of "being made holy". Why? See the parable of the sower. Some people just aren't fit to belong in the house of God, simply because they don't put enough effort into being made holy. Instead of focusing on God's concern they focus on their own.

And if you read on from verse 14 I showed you, you can see how those who are being made holy are changed from within to have the law of God written on our heart, so that being holy is our first and foremost concern. I don't know if you've noticed but I've had to go back on what I've said a few times since I joined this website, and that is not an easy thing to do. Many people come unstuck when that happens because they dig themselves into a hole of lies. It happens you know, and it's really tough to admit you were wrong but it is the only way to remain repentant right to the end.

Does this raise a few more questions for you?

I think it answered it. Maybe we will leave it at that.

FYI, if you want to ask me anything, I am more than happy to answer them; just PM me.

 

[oi_antz]

I think it answered it. Maybe we will leave it at that.

FYI, if you want to ask me anything, I am more than happy to answer them; just PM me.

Thanks mulimulix, any recommended reading to help me learn the theory of evolution?

 

[CryptoLutheran]

It doubts creation because it is further evidence to a contradicting theory.

I'm a little late to the party here, and if this was addressed and I missed it I apologize.

However, I think it's worth noting that it does offer further evidence contradicting Young Earth Creationism. Not the notion of divine creation in and of itself.

A lot of Theistic Evolutionists prefer to use the term "Evolutionary Creationism" in order to emphasize that we do believe "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth", and that we accept that the science we are continuously uncovering describes the processes and means of how the heavens and the earth that God created acts and moves.

So one can both accept that human beings are primates--great apes, specifically--evolved from monkey-like creatures from millions of years ago which evolved from therapsid ancestors, which in turn evolved from early amniotes, which evolved from fish and so on and so forth--and that they are the creation of God, created in the image and likeness of God.

I only bring this up because I think too often the notion of creation has been entirely too co-opted by Young Earth Creationists that rather than recognizing the multitude of views that exist, there is a strong polarization between a purely atheistic, materialistic science which involves a 14 billion year old universe and the process and mechanisms of evolution to produce life on Earth and a theistic, supernatural religious view that posits the universe is between 6 and 10,000 years old and everything that exists came into being within the span of six days.

At the intersection of faith and science there are many positions one can hold.

I just think it bears pointing these things out.

As a Theistic Evolutionist I find the article in the OP absolutely fascinating to see a demonstration of how multicellular organisms may have evolved.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[sabercroft]

Thanks mulimulix, any recommended reading to help me learn the theory of evolution?

Introduction to evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Depending on how you feel about Richard Dawkins, he's written an excellent layman's introductory book titled "The Greatest Show on Earth". I can vouch for a lack of blasphemy and blatant disrespect in his book, but I know some Christians feel striongly against Dawkins, so...

 

[oi_antz]

Introduction to evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Depending on how you feel about Richard Dawkins, he's written an excellent layman's introductory book titled "The Greatest Show on Earth". I can vouch for a lack of blasphemy and blatant disrespect in his book, but I know some Christians feel striongly against Dawkins, so...

Thank you sabercroft. I now understand why atheist's have that "faith" in evolution that Ray Comfort talks about! I will read Dr Dawkin's book at leisure, I can't say that evolution will certainly become a passion for me, I guess time will tell

 

[mulimulix]

Thanks mulimulix, any recommended reading to help me learn the theory of evolution?

This website pretty much covers everything on related to religious debates, i.e. evolution, big bang etc. I guess you could call it "The Atheist's Bible".

If you want a book solely on evolution, 'The Greatest Show on Earth' by none other than Professor Dawkins is apparently very good (although I've never read it myself).

 

[sabercroft]

Thank you sabercroft. I now understand why atheist's have that "faith" in evolution that Ray Comfort talks about! I will read Dr Dawkin's book at leisure, I can't say that evolution will certainly become a passion for me, I guess time will tell

Actually, the atheists have as much "faith" in evolution as any other science. Like every other theory, evolution is based on proven scientific laws and factual empirical data; it's really no different from, say, the theory of gravity or the theory of heliocentrism.

 

[oi_antz]

This website pretty much covers everything on related to religious debates, i.e. evolution, big bang etc. I guess you could call it "The Atheist's Bible".

If you want a book solely on evolution, 'The Greatest Show on Earth' by none other than Professor Dawkins is apparently very good (although I've never read it myself).

Just want to thank you mulimulix for that website, it does seem like a very good unbiased source of information, and a great wealth of information at that. I will spend some time reading it so I can learn more about what God has to teach us, and thank you for the invitation to PM with you, I will certainly do so should I need help with anything. Yours in Christ

Edit: just to be specific about why I say it is a fairly unbiased source, allow me to quote this passage:

Q7. So if God directed evolution, why not just say he created everything at once?
Mainly because all the evidence suggests otherwise. If God created the universe suddenly, he created it in a state that is indistinguishable from true age. If he did create it that way there must be a reason, otherwise God is a liar. Whatever that reason may be, a universe that is exactly like one that is old should be treated as if it were old.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-god.html 20110629

I have absolutely no problem with what is stated here, and I do pertain to a belief in a literal 6 day creation according to Genesis. Yes, indeed I am a believer in miracles

 

[mulimulix]

Just want to thank you mulimulix for that website, it does seem like a very good unbiased source of information, and a great wealth of information at that. I will spend some time reading it so I can learn more about what God has to teach us, and thank you for the invitation to PM with you, I will certainly do so should I need help with anything. Yours in Christ

Edit: just to be specific about why I say it is a fairly unbiased source, allow me to quote this passage:

I have absolutely no problem with what is stated here, and I do pertain to a belief in a literal 6 day creation according to Genesis. Yes, indeed I am a believer in miracles

No problemo. If doubt have ever watched The Atheist Experience, but the hosts always refer the caller to talkorigins when the caller doesn't know basic stuff or wants to know more.

You may be interested in that show, by the way. It is just a show hosted by two atheists and people (Christians and non-Christians) call up and talk or ask questions.

 

[razeontherock]

It doubts creation because it is further evidence to a contradicting theory.

What?? (It does no such thing)

 

[razeontherock]

I don't understand it but from the little reading I've been doing it seems like a very plausible and reliable theory for the origin of life.

The problem with Ev theory is that it (correctly) separates itself so completely from every other necessary aspect of science, that it becomes 100% unaccountable.

Sure, start not only with life but a functional eco-system, in a hospitable environment, and it's plausible. All the "mountains of evidence" and "proof" = no more than that: plausibility. (Interesting too, and a great tool for learning)

Start from not only no life but no matter, space, time or energy?

All of a sudden our know it all scientists got ... nuthin'. [To be fair they have disjointed scraps and shards, but nothing cohesive]

Until we can put all those pieces together convincingly, we amount to 5 year olds in the sandbox making up tall tales.

 

[razeontherock]

Found it!

Acts 4:12:

Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.

Neither does this support muli's claim, which we've both disproven repeatedly.

 

[mulimulix]

What?? (It does no such thing)

So, there was a flat earth hypothesis: The evidence for which was that wherever you are, the horizon appears flat.

Then came along Magellan and sailed around the world; proving the earth was round. And then space mission started and saw the clear, spherical shape of Earth.

See any similarity with creation/evolution?

The problem with Ev theory is that it (correctly) separates itself so completely from every other necessary aspect of science, that it becomes 100% unaccountable.

Sure, start not only with life but a functional eco-system, in a hospitable environment, and it's plausible. All the "mountains of evidence" and "proof" = no more than that: plausibility. (Interesting too, and a great tool for learning)

Start from not only no life but no matter, space, time or energy?

All of a sudden our know it all scientists got ... nuthin'. [To be fair they have disjointed scraps and shards, but nothing cohesive]

Until we can put all those pieces together convincingly, we amount to 5 year olds in the sandbox making up tall tales.

You show little to no understanding of science.

Evolution has NOTHING to do with the Big Bang or even abiogenesis. You also have never looked at evidence for evolution. Watch the youtube video I posted a couple of days ago to oi_antz and tell me what you make of it. Until you watch the video, I will not reply to you.

 

[razeontherock]

So, there was a flat earth hypothesis: The evidence for which was that wherever you are, the horizon appears flat.

No it doesn't. Either you have exceptionally poor eyesight, no life experience, or are just plain unobservant.

You show little to no understanding of science.

You also have never looked at evidence for evolution.

Just a FYI, lying is still a sin Just because critical thought and understanding the world I live in does not allow me to swallow all the propaganda hook line and sinker doesn't mean that disagreement with you means I'm wrong. But feel free to believe everything you're told like a good little lemming ...

Yes, you exhibit faith in your beliefs, just like Antz' siggy says.

 

[SonOfTheWest]

Greatest Show on Earth was indeed a fantastic book. Though I fear a great deal of religious readers will avoid the book simply because they'll see the author name and go,"Eek!"