Something all YECs should read

[mulimulix]

Yep, so which one is a delusion? Well, lucky for you I'm not a gambler, but I'm choosing to trust what God says. We'll both know the absolute truth before too long anyway. Keep playing with your test tubes, you evolutionist's are doing some fantastic work for God's little ant farm!

Lol, could you be any sketchier on details?

Well, this is the beauty of Christianity (in particular):

"Before too long anyway"

I assume you are referring to the second-coming. In 50000 years, when he still hasn't come back, you can keep saying "Any day now" and there's no way to prove you wrong. It's the same with prayers being answered with "Yes, no or wait".

 

[oi_antz]

Lol, could you be any sketchier on details?

Well, this is the beauty of Christianity (in particular):

"Before too long anyway"

I assume you are referring to the second-coming. In 50000 years, when he still hasn't come back, you can keep saying "Any day now" and there's no way to prove you wrong. It's the same with prayers being answered with "Yes, no or wait".

No I was talking about the end of our mortal life when the greatest question is answered: what happens when we die?

Ecclesiastes 12:7
For then the dust will return to the earth, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

Then it will not be a mystery.

Also, you should be wary of mocking Jesus it will only count against you when our lives are weighed. Just a little respect can save a severe regret.

 

[sabercroft]

Also, you should be wary of mocking Jesus it will only count against you when our lives are weighed. Just a little respect can save a severe regret.

How so? Regardless of how much respect we have for him, that's not going to matter and we're going to Hell anyway for not believing in him.

 

[oi_antz]

How so? Regardless of how much respect we have for him, that's not going to matter and we're going to Hell anyway for not believing in him.

Let's not derail the thread over this. I'm sure that even having one glimpse of the lake of fire will make you believe.

 

[mulimulix]

No I was talking about the end of our mortal life when the greatest question is answered: what happens when we die?

Also, you should be wary of mocking Jesus it will only count against you when our lives are weighed. Just a little respect can save a severe regret.

Why would I respect something/someone I don't believe in? I'll put it this way - If I believed in a man named Joe who lived 3000 years ago and said he was going to judge you when you die, would you purposely respect him?

How so? Regardless of how much respect we have for him, that's not going to matter and we're going to Hell anyway for not believing in him.

This is a valid point too. Was it you, oi_antz, that I quoted the verse where it stated you had to accept Jesus to get into heaven?

 

[oi_antz]

Why would I respect something/someone I don't believe in? I'll put it this way - If I believed in a man named Joe who lived 3000 years ago and said he was going to judge you when you die, would you purposely respect him?

Yes, it is only wise. Answer me this: why is it common to take Jesus' name in vain, yet there is hell on earth when the prophet Mohammad is depicted by a cartoon?

This is a valid point too. Was it you, oi_antz, that I quoted the verse where it stated you had to accept Jesus to get into heaven?

Can you remember the verse? I remember the one with Nicodemus "cannot see the kingdom of God unless you are born again".

I think even if you don't want to be in heaven, at least be wise enough to keep your debt to God most minimal then your punishment will be less severe.

 

[mulimulix]

Yes, it is only wise. Answer me this: why is it common to take Jesus' name in vain, yet there is hell on earth when the prophet Mohammad is depicted by a cartoon?

Can you remember the verse? I remember the one with Nicodemus "cannot see the kingdom of God unless you are born again".

I think even if you don't want to be in heaven, at least be wise enough to keep your debt to God most minimal then your punishment will be less severe.

You are using pascal's wager; something which fails on several fronts when used in relation to god or religion:

1. Firstly, I do not believe in a god. Doing anything to please or reducing my debt to him would be hypocritical.
2. Continuing from number 1, if I was to be safe with one god, why would I pick that god, as opposed to the millions of other gods created in human history. Do you think I should also just be safe with Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism and Greek mythology?
3. Forgetting point 2, let's say (for argument's sake) there is a .01% chance that Christianity is right, and therefore, a .01% chance I'm going to hell. The question you may ask is "Why wouldn't you follow, just to be safe?" This raised even further questions. To an atheist (and probably many Christians), a Christian wastes a lot of their life praying to something which doesn't exist and spending hours in church and (my personal favourite), thanking god for things which were actually as a result of hard-working people. So, yes, I could just be safe, but it is at a cost.

There is also a question which does apply to our lives right now. If one was to use pascal's wager for Christianity, why do they not use it in real life? For example, there is a much, much greater chance you will die by going out and driving somewhere than staying home and watching t.v. So, why do you take the risk? I believe there is a greater chance of getting in the car and driving right now, than there is of Christianity being correct.

That is just my viewpoint on the matter.

 

[oi_antz]

Found it!

Acts 4:12:

Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.

I don't think this contradicts what I've said though.

 

[oi_antz]

You are using pascal's wager; something which fails on several fronts when used in relation to god or religion:

1. Firstly, I do not believe in a god. Doing anything to please or reducing my debt to him would be hypocritical.
2. Continuing from number 1, if I was to be safe with one god, why would I pick that god, as opposed to the millions of other gods created in human history. Do you think I should also just be safe with Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism and Greek mythology?
3. Forgetting point 2, let's say (for argument's sake) there is a .01% chance that Christianity is right, and therefore, a .01% chance I'm going to hell. The question you may ask is "Why wouldn't you follow, just to be safe?" This raised even further questions. To an atheist (and probably many Christians), a Christian wastes a lot of their life praying to something which doesn't exist and spending hours in church and (my personal favourite), thanking god for things which were actually as a result of hard-working people. So, yes, I could just be safe, but it is at a cost.

There is also a question which does apply to our lives right now. If one was to use pascal's wager for Christianity, why do they not use it in real life? For example, there is a much, much greater chance you will die by going out and driving somewhere than staying home and watching t.v. So, why do you take the risk? I believe there is a greater chance of getting in the car and driving right now, than there is of Christianity being correct.

That is just my viewpoint on the matter.

Wow, that makes a lot of sense!

 

[mulimulix]

Wow, that makes a lot of sense!

Was that sarcastic?

 

[oi_antz]

Was that sarcastic?

No, I just don't know what else to say because you are correct.

 

[mulimulix]

No, I just don't know what else to say because you are correct.

Cool.

Thanks for being an easy-to-talk-to Christian (unlike some others on this forum).

 

[oi_antz]

Cool.

Thanks for being an easy-to-talk-to Christian (unlike some others on this forum).

Well it's really hard for me to wrap my head around atheism but what you said does make sense. You probably don't know what it feels like for me when Jesus is insulted. Being Christian is like being married to Jesus, if that helps. Anyhow, we aren't achieving anything by bickering at each other. Thanks for being a reasonable person, I hope that Jesus will place you on His right hand when He comes.

 

[AskYourSelfDaily]

Well you know that this contradicts the Bible.

So God also made the thousands of deadly viruses that have before, and still do kill us? What about the animals that only thrive in certain environments and in others kill everything? To say God made all the animals and every part of life how it is exactly right now, and that it is all under his meticulous control is to call God the greatest murderer of all time.

EDIT: I also found it slightly funny you claimed all we are now is exactly how God designed us, and then say you want a cure for psoriasis, are not ok with the body God envisioned and designed for us?

EDIT2: Because I am a grammar nazi your sig drives me nuts. One Ray Comfort is a nut, and two there is no faith in science. That isn't to say you cannot be a christian and have faith and be a scientist. But there need be no faith in science in relation to progress made and ways of the world uncovered.

I am a Christian, who accepts science and loves science. So please do not take what I am saying as offensive, simply a comparative view for you to mull over.

 

[sabercroft]

I'm sure that even having one glimpse of the lake of fire will make you believe.

Probably. I'm not advocating blasphemy here, and I think we're obliged to respect Jesus since it's the polite thing to do (and it's also part of the forum rules). I just don't think any amount of respect is going to save me from that lake of fire.

 

[oi_antz]

So God also made the thousands of deadly viruses that have before, and still do kill us?

1 Corinthians 8:6
But we know that there is only one God, the Father, who created everything, and we live for him. And there is only one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom God made everything and through whom we have been given life.

What about the animals that only thrive in certain environments and in others kill everything? To say God made all the animals and every part of life how it is exactly right now, and that it is all under his meticulous control is to call God the greatest murderer of all time.

Of course! Life is just a food chain. What is the price of two sparrows—one copper coin ? But not a single sparrow can fall to the ground without your Father knowing it.

EDIT: I also found it slightly funny you claimed all we are now is exactly how God designed us, and then say you want a cure for psoriasis, are not ok with the body God envisioned and designed for us?

Obviously not. If there is something I don't enjoy about life then of course I want it better. I am not at all bitter at God for having created psoriasis, we just get dealt the cards we have and we have to just play them as good as possible.

EDIT2: Because I am a grammar nazi your sig drives me nuts. One Ray Comfort is a nut, and two there is no faith in science. That isn't to say you cannot be a christian and have faith and be a scientist. But there need be no faith in science in relation to progress made and ways of the world uncovered.

Too bad that you have become a grammar Nazi, is that how God designed you? I know exactly what that quote means and I'm not backing down for you.

I am a Christian, who accepts science and loves science. So please do not take what I am saying as offensive, simply a comparative view for you to mull over.

Well it would be nice to have received some help from you, please do take note that not a single word of yours was designed to expand my understanding but rather to put me down. I am not impressed with our first engagement, I hope our next will be more pleasant.

 

[oi_antz]

Probably. I'm not advocating blasphemy here, and I think we're obliged to respect Jesus since it's the polite thing to do (and it's also part of the forum rules). I just don't think any amount of respect is going to save me from that lake of fire.

Actually, the right amount of respect will save you from the lake of fire:

21 Those who accept my commandments and obey them are the ones who love me. And because they love me, my Father will love them. And I will love them and reveal myself to each of them.”

But Jesus' salvation is not just given to everyone who desires it, you really do have to love Jesus and obey Him. It is very hard to love someone if you don't respect them and if you were to respect Jesus then you would love Him.

And also note sabercroft that I'm not saying you will go to the lake of fire because only Jesus knows the judgment we will each receive. Seems to me though that the atheist's demonstrate a huge degree of love and respect for God the creator, but they are consequentially disillusioned about YHWH and Jesus the Christ due to the way they have been treated and taunted by false or ignorant teachers. But some atheist's just intentionally take quotes out of context to support their unbelief so it's a real mess.

Anyway, I extend the same blessing to you, I hope when Jesus comes He will place you on His right hand, and I hope too that you will encounter the right information that will turn your heart toward respecting the Lord, then you will be able to love the person who made life. I don't think there's much more I can do except hope and pray and shed blessings, so there you have it

 

[sabercroft]

But Jesus' salvation is not just given to everyone who desires it, you really do have to love Jesus and obey Him.

And that's why I don't think respect alone is going to save me.

I respect Jesus in pretty much the same way I respect Allah, Buddha, Ishvara, Sai Baba, etc. It means I understand that they're sensitive issues to some people and I shouldn't deliberately try to provoke them, but that's it. It doesn't mean that I necessarily believe them to be true.

All the same, thanks for your well-wishes, and the same to you.

 

[oi_antz]

And that's why I don't think respect alone is going to save me.

I respect Jesus in pretty much the same way I respect Allah, Buddha, Ishvara, Sai Baba, etc. It means I understand that they're sensitive issues to some people and I shouldn't deliberately try to provoke them, but that's it. It doesn't mean that I necessarily believe them to be true.

All the same, thanks for your well-wishes, and the same to you.

No, I don't think respect alone will do, you do have to obey Him. But there's no telling whether one day you might want to know Him and then you'll be willing to obey Him.

 

[mulimulix]

Actually, the right amount of respect will save you from the lake of fire:

21 Those who accept my commandments and obey them are the ones who love me. And because they love me, my Father will love them. And I will love them and reveal myself to each of them.”

But this is not practically true! I'm sure you have stolen something from someone before, lied and at some point, not honoured your mother and/or father. Now, you'll probably say god will forgive you if you repent, but then he can still love you if you disobey the commandments.