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Something About Mary

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sunlover1

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Thankfully you didn't have a third thing to hold. ^_^
That's what I was thinking LOL

Ah so now you can judge what is worship and what isn't?
I don't know, I just don't judge.
OH, well, how can one 'worship' their stomach?
What IS worship anyhow?

Yeah really, heck when theres a bee in the car things do get pretty wet and I have some close calls with trees sometimes ^_^

I try to keep my windows up in the summer so that doesnt happen lol
oh no! lol.
Get that cup holder fixed or get the redneck kind.
 
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sunlover1

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Gotta go food shopping catch ya's later:thumbsup:
:wave:
Gotta head out in a few too.

Sun's shining, I have a tan to work on.
So carnal I know.
color me a heathen.

Aha, NOW we know how someone can worship the sun
hence my screenname!
^_^
My dirty little secret is out!
(Saw thek ask that earlier i think


Edit to add:
I'll pray for your journey ;)
 
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Thekla

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Gotta head out in a few too.

Sun's shining, I have a tan to work on.
So carnal I know.
color me a heathen.

Aha, NOW we know how someone can worship the sun
hence my screenname!
^_^
My dirty little secret is out!
(Saw thek ask that earlier i think


Edit to add:
I'll pray for your journey ;)

:) You strike me more as after this sun :

But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and you shall go forth, and grow up like calves of the stall. Malachi 4:2
 
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sunlover1

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:) You strike me more as after this sun :

But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and you shall go forth, and grow up like calves of the stall. Malachi 4:2
Isn't that cool!?
:clap:
How's it going Thekla?
Staying out of trouble? lol
 
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Fireinfolding

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The highlighed portion should include the word serve.

The reason the word serve is not highlighted was because it was between these two words sculleywr is adressing here

Well, for one, graven image is a wrong translation. The word, both in the Hebrew and in the Greek Septuagint is IDOL. There is nothing in the language to say anything about engraved images.

So he is not adressing the verb or the actual act of serving them, but of the images and idols. So I just posted an example where you can find both in one verse. Which was an example of many verses I encouraged her to run to find (together) in other verses.

Showered and now hitting the road, suncritter enjoy the sun^_^
 
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Fireinfolding

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The Church certainly doesn't agree with Buddhism, though she does recognize that all major religions have some degree of Truth. You could always ask me. Or Warrior Angel, or DC, or Rhamiel...


Im such a procrastinator, sorry I will adress this before I head out. Other catholics have informed me if I wanted the official teaching, to go to an offical site, dont just ask catholics on the forum but have them direct you to the official opinion. Only because opinions on things among catholics (apart from what is offically said) can differ greatly.

I thought it was good advice, which is why I asked so I dont take the wrong persons word for it. But I also dont want to assume anothers theology on it.

Well, you know how that is here, another will ask, "WHO told you that"? and I would say another catholic, and then they would say, that is NOT the official stance of the church (you cannot fault the church for its members opinions) so please ASK for the official stance on anything.

So thats why I was asking, just following orders :thumbsup:
 
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Root of Jesse

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Im such a procrastinator, sorry I will adress this before I head out. Other catholics have informed me if I wanted the official teaching, to go to an offical site, dont just ask catholics on the forum but have them direct you to the official opinion. Only because opinions on things among catholics (apart from what is offically said) can differ greatly.

I thought it was good advice, which is why I asked so I dont take the wrong persons word for it. But I also dont want to assume anothers theology on it.

Well, you know how that is here, another will ask, "WHO told you that"? and I would say another catholic, and then they would say, that is NOT the official stance of the church (you cannot fault the church for its members opinions) so please ASK for the official stance on anything.

So thats why I was asking, just following orders :thumbsup:

Well, I promise you that, if you ask me a question, I'll back it up with a source, but if it's my opinion, I'll say so. I learned this from a priest who was the canon lawyer for our diocese, but when he had an opinion about some topic, he woud visibly step to a different part of the room, and make it clear it's an opinion. I promise, I'm not here to ask or give opinions. Especially here in GT. I'm here to defend Catholic teaching, especially to defend what some people think is Catholic teaching...I also believe that anyone here who's Catholic, if they're saying their opinion, should make it clear that it's opinion, and if it's got some documentary evidence, to provide it.

Bless ya, sister...
 
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daydreamergurl15

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Revelation 5:8 plainly states that the saints in heaven hear our prayers and intercede for us.

Your praying to God is not wrong. We do, too. We don't pray "Our Mary..." We pray "Our Father" at every Mass and in every Rosary. We don't exclude God in our prayer, we include Mary and the Saints.

Where in Revelation does it say that they hear our prayers? I see the verse say four living creatures and the 24 elders, where exactly are the saints that hear us?
Where in Scripture does it tell us that someone become a Saint with the power over a particular kind of affliction? Where does it say to include saints (asleep in Christ) in my prayer to pray for me?

When I pray, why would I need any more than God to hear, Holy Spirit to intercede and Jesus to Mediate? I am saying "when I pray" because the dead have to be able to hear me say "pray for me" and then that give them a characteristic that only God has, the ability to hear all of us. I know God hears us when we pray therefore I am going to pray to Him only.

I am not saying that you guys neglect to pray to God, I'm saying I don't understand the point of asking those asleep in Christ to pray for you with the reasoning that they can hear you asking for prayers when you have God Himself who hears you.
 
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Albion

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Root of Jesse said:
Revelation 5:8 plainly states that the saints in heaven hear our prayers and intercede for us.

Where in Revelation does it say that they hear our prayers? I see the verse say four living creatures and the 24 elders, where exactly are the saints that hear us?

You are right, of course. Revelation says no such thing. I guess our friend thought he could get that past you if he dressed it up with language like "plainly states." :D
 
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SolomonVII

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Where in Revelation does it say that they hear our prayers? I see the verse say four living creatures and the 24 elders, where exactly are the saints that hear us?
Where in Scripture does it tell us that someone become a Saint with the power over a particular kind of affliction? Where does it say to include saints (asleep in Christ) in my prayer to pray for me?

When I pray, why would I need any more than God to hear, Holy Spirit to intercede and Jesus to Mediate? I am saying "when I pray" because the dead have to be able to hear me say "pray for me" and then that give them a characteristic that only God has, the ability to hear all of us. I know God hears us when we pray therefore I am going to pray to Him only.

I am not saying that you guys neglect to pray to God, I'm saying I don't understand the point of asking those asleep in Christ to pray for you with the reasoning that they can hear you asking for prayers when you have God Himself who hears you.

That is an interesting question.

Going beyond what is theologically wrong, or right; what is scriptural, or not; and going beyond what is or isn't traditonal, for those who practice prayers to the saints, what does this add to the faith, that praying to Jesus does not already give to those who pray?
Why go to the secretary, when the boss has already made himself directly to your petitions? Is it because God likes the secretary more than you?
But what makes you think then, that the secretary likes you any more than the boss would?

Or maybe, is there apotheosis invovled? God becomes man so that man may become God, to paraphrase Athanasius, may well lead to the understanding that the saints are fully delivered to the family of God. Is it possible that those asleep in Christ are in fact so much a part of Christ, so much atoned to the Trinity, that to pray to the saints is to pray to God directly?
In this case, what would be added would be the human touch, an understanding that the works of the saints here on earth is in fact the work of God himself. The personality and the biographical form of the saints live remains the same, but God is so throroughly imbued in the saints, and they in him, that to pray to the saints is to pray to God?
 
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sunlover1

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That is an interesting question.

Going beyond what is theologically wrong, or right; what is scriptural, or not; and going beyond what is or isn't traditonal, for those who practice prayers to the saints, what does this add to the faith, that praying to Jesus does not already give to those who pray?
Why go to the secretary, when the boss has already made himself directly to your petitions? Is it because God likes the secretary more than you?
But what makes you think then, that the secretary likes you any more than the boss would?
Actually, wouldn't it be an affront when He went to such a bit of trouble
to rip away the curtain and since He Himself says:
Come BOLDLY to the throne of Grace

Or maybe, is there apotheosis invovled? God becomes man so that man may become God, to paraphrase Athanasius, may well lead to the understanding that the saints are fully delivered to the family of God. Is it possible that those asleep in Christ are in fact so much a part of Christ, so much atoned to the Trinity, that to pray to the saints is to pray to God directly?
In this case, what would be added would be the human touch, an understanding that the works of the saints here on earth is in fact the work of God himself. The personality and the biographical form of the saints live remains the same, but God is so throroughly imbued in the saints, and they in him, that to pray to the saints is to pray to God?
[/QUOTE]
And why not pray to the angels too?
Oh no you didn't!

:eek::eek::eek:
 
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Rev Randy

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That is an interesting question.

Going beyond what is theologically wrong, or right; what is scriptural, or not; and going beyond what is or isn't traditonal, for those who practice prayers to the saints, what does this add to the faith, that praying to Jesus does not already give to those who pray?
Why go to the secretary, when the boss has already made himself directly to your petitions? Is it because God likes the secretary more than you?
But what makes you think then, that the secretary likes you any more than the boss would?

Or maybe, is there apotheosis invovled? God becomes man so that man may become God, to paraphrase Athanasius, may well lead to the understanding that the saints are fully delivered to the family of God. Is it possible that those asleep in Christ are in fact so much a part of Christ, so much atoned to the Trinity, that to pray to the saints is to pray to God directly?
In this case, what would be added would be the human touch, an understanding that the works of the saints here on earth is in fact the work of God himself. The personality and the biographical form of the saints live remains the same, but God is so throroughly imbued in the saints, and they in him, that to pray to the saints is to pray to God?
That's a good question. And I thank you for asking it. Our prayers to the Saints ask that they pray for us as we're aware that we do not always pray for what we really need but rather and often what we desire. I also ask just about every praying believer to pray for me as led as well.
So I'll ask a question as well to make a point: Why would you ask anyone to pray for you when you could pray for yourself? The answer for both your question and mine is the same answer. There is strength in numbers agreeing in prayer.
 
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Albion

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"Going beyond what is theologically wrong, or right; what is scriptural, or not; and going beyond what is or isn't traditonal, for those who practice prayers to the saints, what does this add to the faith, that praying to Jesus does not already give to those who pray?
Why go to the secretary, when the boss has already made himself directly to your petitions? Is it because God likes the secretary more than you?



That's the Number One question to be asked, Solomon, and I doubt that we'll get much of an answer other than "they pray for us, we ask them, God likes them, they still are alive" generalizations in return.
 
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Defensor Christi

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"Going beyond what is theologically wrong, or right; what is scriptural, or not; and going beyond what is or isn't traditonal, for those who practice prayers to the saints, what does this add to the faith, that praying to Jesus does not already give to those who pray?
Why go to the secretary, when the boss has already made himself directly to your petitions? Is it because God likes the secretary more than you?



That's the Number One question to be asked, Solomon, and I doubt that we'll get much of an answer other than "they pray for us, we ask them, God likes them, they still are alive" generalizations in return.

Why do you pray for anybody? Next time someone asks you to pray for them, tell them to do it theirselves...you, afterall, are not God's secretary...
 
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sunlover1

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Why do you pray for anybody? Next time someone asks you to pray for them, tell them to do it theirselves...you, afterall, are not God's secretary...
LOL
Good advice!
:p JK DC

Because those who are gone ahead of me cannot hear me.
They're not omniscient.
We can't talk between realms
 
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Defensor Christi

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Because those who are gone ahead of me cannot hear me.
They're not omniscient.
We can't talk between realms

Well that would be our essential disagreement then...I am sure it has been covered in this thread, scripturally, there is evidence that those who are with God are well aware of the affairs that occur on earth...I dont think we go to Heaven, sit on clouds and play harps...totally forgetting those whom we love here on earth.

The Catholic perspective (as basic as it gets) is this...

1) We pray (intercede/mediate) for each other
2) We never are dead in the body of Christ
3) We are aware of the happenings here on earth
4) Those souls in heaven's intercession is much more powerful than ours as they are without sin and have direct access to the Lord (beatific vision)
5) We ask them to intercede on our behalf...just as I would ask you to intercede for me....

That (in a nutshell) is it...
 
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Root of Jesse

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Where in Revelation does it say that they hear our prayers? I see the verse say four living creatures and the 24 elders, where exactly are the saints that hear us?
Everyone in heaven is a Saint. Rev 5:8 says that the elders (who are saints, because they're in heaven) hold golden bowls of incense, which are our prayers.
Where in Scripture does it tell us that someone become a Saint with the power over a particular kind of affliction? Where does it say to include saints (asleep in Christ) in my prayer to pray for me?
A Saint is someone who is in God's grace (in heaven). We attach patronage to them, based on their lives. For example, every profession has a patron saint, someone who worked in that capacity. St. Claire of Assisi is the patron saint of television, because toward the end of her life, it's reported that while she was too ill to attend Mass, the images appeared on the wall of her room.
This is a practice of the Church, not a discipline.
When I pray, why would I need any more than God to hear, Holy Spirit to intercede and Jesus to Mediate? I am saying "when I pray" because the dead have to be able to hear me say "pray for me" and then that give them a characteristic that only God has, the ability to hear all of us. I know God hears us when we pray therefore I am going to pray to Him only.
I'm not saying you shouldn't, or you should change. But we know the Saints are alive, and hear us.
I am not saying that you guys neglect to pray to God, I'm saying I don't understand the point of asking those asleep in Christ to pray for you with the reasoning that they can hear you asking for prayers when you have God Himself who hears you.
If you wanted help dealing with a situation in your life, don't you ask someone who has experienced the same, or similar? Of course, even in those earthly things, God is the one who deals with it, right?
 
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sunlover1

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Well that would be our essential disagreement then...I am sure it has been covered in this thread, scripturally, there is evidence that those who are with God are well aware of the affairs that occur on earth...I dont think we go to Heaven, sit on clouds and play harps...totally forgetting those whom we love here on earth.

The Catholic perspective (as basic as it gets) is this...

1) We pray (intercede/mediate) for each other
2) We never are dead in the body of Christ
3) We are aware of the happenings here on earth
4) Those souls in heaven's intercession is much more powerful than ours as they are without sin and have direct access to the Lord
5) We ask them to interceed on our behalf...just as I would ask you to intercede for me....

That (in a nutshell) is it...
Ack.
I have to run in the middle of a conversation.
Sorry! But there's a beautiful weekend out
there waiting for us all.

(It's 5 oclock somewhere)
 
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Root of Jesse

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You are right, of course. Revelation says no such thing. I guess our friend thought he could get that past you if he dressed it up with language like "plainly states." :D
Why would the saints be holding anything and not know what it is?:D
 
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