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Someone help me: as a Creationist, I have God; as a would be Evolutionist, I have what?

The Barbarian

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The Barbarian

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Hmm..

4b3e5d538a5126ecf9f27a2dc17d64a7--freemasonry-goddesses.jpg
 
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coffee4u

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I'm pointing out that (as scripture says) that death is defeated, and we no longer have to fear it.
1 Corinthians 15:56 For sin is the sting that results in death, and the law gives sin its power. 57 But thank God! He gives us victory over sin and death through our Lord Jesus Christ.

I wasn't talking about the fear of death or defeating death as being saved in Jesus.
I am talking about death being done away with completely, being immortal. Revelation says there will be no more death.
 
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The Barbarian

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I am talking about death being done away with completely, being immortal. Revelation says there will be no more death.

I was talking about death being defeated, as scripture says it has been.
 
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Nancy Hale

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It's that "communion of saints" thing in the Nicene Creed.

Does that mean my understanding is incorrect? I am pretty sure I base it mainly from a book titled "The Four Witnesses: The Early Church in Her Own Words" in which the author uses letters and whatnot to show that the modern practices of the Roman Catholic Church are indeed the same as the Church in its infancy.
I believe it was approved by the RC, but I wouldn't swear to it.
 
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Cis.jd

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Im talking about intent as in intention. They both mean plan. You even said it in your own post. Learning English - Ask about English - Intent / intention

Now look here
Thesaurus results for INTENTION

Intent and plan are part of the synonyms. In fact the words “design” and “purpose” are in their descriptions. Just click on the definition link you posted.
 
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coffee4u

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I was talking about death being defeated, as scripture says it has been.

But Revelations indicates that there is more. If death is going to be done away with then there is still more to go.
This is why I believe there was no death in the garden, it was a foreshadowing of the New Heavens and New Earth where there will be no death.
 
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Jamdoc

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I wasn't talking about the fear of death or defeating death as being saved in Jesus.
I am talking about death being done away with completely, being immortal. Revelation says there will be no more death.
That is what is reiterated multiple times in scripture, so yeah, that's what I believe. There's nothing that science could observe about future events like that so all you have to go by is scripture. For past events like creation there's 2 ways God is revealed, His Word, and His Creation. For future, only His Word.
 
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Jamdoc

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No. Death was defeated for all time by the death and Resurrection of Jesus, as the Bible says.
It's more along the lines that death is in checkmate, but death itself won't be completely destroyed until the fulfillment of Revelation. Sin is also in checkmate, but sin still exists in this world, but the pieces are set to cast sin and death and hell into the outer void, the lake of fire.
 
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The Barbarian

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It's more along the lines that death is in checkmate, but death itself won't be completely destroyed until the fulfillment of Revelation. Sin is also in checkmate, but sin still exists in this world, but the pieces are set to cast sin and death and hell into the outer void, the lake of fire.

The point is that for His people, death is defeated and has no hold on us. It still has a hold on those who do not accept His death and Resurrection for us.
 
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The Barbarian

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coffee4u

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The verse in Revelation has nothing to do with the unsaved, it's for the saved after Jesus returns.

4 and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away.

But since you don't agree with it there is no point asking your view on it.
 
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Jamdoc

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You're still confused about the difference between death being defeated as God says it is, and still existing for those outside of salvation.

1 Corinthians 15:56 and Revelation 21:4 are both true.

For sin is the sting that results in death, and the law gives sin its power. 57 But thank God! He gives us victory over sin and death through our Lord Jesus Christ.
the saved still physically die. God is saying that when Christ returns and those dead in Christ are resurrected, they will never die, neither spiritually, or physically, ever again. They overcame death and the world.
God is also saying that after He makes all things new, NOTHING will die again, there won't be unsaved people, those will be thrown into the second death which is the last time anything will ever die. That is, at least as far as animals go anyway, since there is still eating I don't know if that deathlessness extends to plants, since the bible explicitly says we'll be eating fruits from the trees of life, maybe on a cellular level there is still death but the cells replenish themselves perfectly (instead of the current system where while redundant, DNA replication and transcription sometimes has errors, which causes aging and death) so that as whole organisms things never die, just their cells recycle. I'm not sure how the biology in new creation will work, but if you're eating something, that thing dies.
 
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The Barbarian

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the saved still physically die.

But it no longer matters. Death is defeated, and we face death without fear. God says:
1 Corinthians 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

I'm aware there are some who disagree. But I'll go with God on this one.
 
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Jamdoc

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But it no longer matters. Death is defeated, and we face death without fear. God says:
1 Corinthians 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

I'm aware there are some who disagree. But I'll go with God on this one.
It does still matter because we're not meant to exist in a disembodied form in a spiritual realm. We're meant to be material beings in a material, physical world. Heaven is a "far better" place than this fallen world, but it's not where we're meant to be. The fact that death has lost it's "sting" is just in that knowing that someday, we'll be resurrected on a new Earth, in a new glorified body. Not that our spirit goes to the presence of the Lord currently, not in a way He didn't intend for us to exist, that's not defeating death, that is just part of the process, it's a layover, and to be perfectly honest, that part of the plan sounds kind of boring. Not having a body, just kind of being there waiting for the second coming when you'll get a body again and be able to DO something. Too many Christians I think even extend that existence into eternity thinking that in the new Earth we'll just fall on our faces around the throne singing hymns for all of eternity and while that is an activity specified, I think God is way more creative than that and has way more fun plans than for an eternity sing-a-long. God gives us new bodies to DO things with, and He will have work He wants us to do, and creation is vast, far more than just surrounding a throne. However long we'll have disembodied as spirits will probably have you thirsting to have a body again and do things other than just bask in God's presence, and thank the Lord that He's not that boring to have made humans in His image designed to work and have dominion, and be creative in their own right, just to fall on their faces around His throne singing songs for all eternity like robots, He has specific angels that fulfill that capacity. He made us for more than that. You may counter with "we were made to worship God" and that's true, but with our free will, creativity, and our physical bodies worship takes many forms. Feasts in thanksgiving are done as a means to worship God (and in fact the wedding supper of the lamb is one such feast we'll take part in), Abraham built altars, David danced as a form of thanksgiving and worship (and by the description of "with all his might", I always think of David doing some pretty acrobatic moves, something not too unlike capoeira or breakdancing, something that shows a lot of strength, power, and finesse), playing musical instruments can also be worship, singing praise is of course one way, as is prostrating yourself, but they're not the only ways, but we'll need bodies to do even just those ways.
So because we still leave our physical bodies, I still see death as in checkmate rather than having been truly beaten yet, the current defeat is that there's the promise that it will be defeated, a surety of it.
 
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The Barbarian

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But Revelations is God's word, so the verse about no more death is from God.

1 Corinthians is also Gods word:
1 Corinthians 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

And it says Jesus has defeated death for us. So no question about it.
 
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