Some Reasons I Don't Believe in Evolution

[Ration]

No it doesn't

I Kings 7:23

 

[AV1611VET]

Pi is not 3. The Bible says it is.

No it doesn't

I Kings 7:23

I missed the value of Pi in that verse; could you point it out for me, please?

 

[Split Rock]

No, you merely assume i ever said teaching ID or creationism was good. Why?

I assumed nothing. You said ask a good scientist and they will tell you "the teaching of Ev sux." I responded by telling you (as a good scientist) that "the teaching of creationism/I.D. sux," instead.

 

[AV1611VET]

I assumed nothing. You said ask a good scientist and they will tell you "the teaching of Ev sux." I responded by telling you (as a good scientist) that "the teaching of creationism/I.D. sux," instead.

May I break the tie?

 

[Nostromo]

There is no tie.

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

I missed the value of Pi in that verse; could you point it out for me, please?

The values given in the verse:
Diameter = 10 cubits
Circumference = 30 cubits

According to Math,

Thus, 30 = pi * 10

Solve for pi,

pi = 30/10 = 3

 

[Split Rock]

May I break the tie?

Which tie?
http://huaruitextile.en.ecplaza.net/main.jpg

 

[AV1611VET]

The values given in the verse:
Diameter = 10 cubits
Circumference = 30 cubits

According to Math,

Thus, 30 = pi * 10

Solve for pi,

pi = 30/10 = 3

I highlighted your error.

Here's the verse:

1 Kings 7:23 And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.

Notice that the Bible does not call it a circumference?

It is a perimeter, not a circumference.

In short, you're assuming it's a circle, since it says 'it was round all about'; but it's not -- it's an oval.

 

[plindboe]

This atheist site essentially says that the pi=3 argument is a bad argument, easily refuted:

Apologetic response

Unfortunately, this claim is easily refuted in a few different ways.

1. The Bible doesn't claim that the sea was a perfect circle, only that it was "round"; it could have been slightly ellipical and 10 cubits was its longer dimension.
2. The 30 cubit measurement may have been the interior circumference while 10 cubits was the diameter from one outside edge to the other. That is, the thickness of the "brim" accounts for the discrepancy.
3. The diameter of a circle with circumference 30 cubits would be approximately 9.55 cubits, which rounds to 10 cubits.
4. More generally, the passage only implies the wrong value for π if you assume (probably unwisely) that the numbers given are accurate to more than two significant figures (i.e., that they equal 10.0 and 30.0, respectively, when rounded to the nearest tenth). Otherwise, there is quite a large range of possible values implied. If the numbers are only accurate to the nearest unit — surely an acceptable assumption — the implied value could be anything from 2.81 (≈29.5/10.499) to 3.21 (≈30.499/9.5), a range that clearly contains the true value of π. (In other words, the measurements can both be correct, and the shape perfectly circular, if the numbers are simply being reported to the nearest unit.)


Summation

While some atheists like to cite this as a demonstration against strict Biblical literalists, as we could certainly expect greater precision if the words of the Bible come directly from a god, the argument tends to be viewed as trivial. This argument is certainly vastly overshadowed by the wealth of other errors, contradictions, ambiguities and atrocities contained in the Bible.

It is also worth noting that the cubit itself was an inherently ambiguous unit, being based on the length of the human forearm. Our ancient friends simply did not possess the accuracy of measurement that we do today.

Peter

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

I highlighted your error.

Here's the verse:

1 Kings 7:23 And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.

Notice that the Bible does not call it a circumference?

It is a perimeter, not a circumference.

In short, you're assuming it's a circle, since it says 'it was round all about'; but it's not -- it's an oval.

If it's all the same to you then, I'll get my math and science instruction from sources other than the bible.

 

[Phred]

This atheist site essentially says that the pi=3 argument is a bad argument, easily refuted:



Peter

It is easily refuted. Yet not one of our brethren here refuted it. The point however isn't that the measurements could be off and that's the reason. Which, to any reasonable human being would be the point. The POINT of all this is that they claim the Bible is written by GOD. A being so perfect, so powerful and so wonderful that he wouldn't make mistakes like this. HE would KNOW that the way we figure out mathematical things about a circle is by using Pi. HE would know that Pi is 3.14159265... HE would know that 30/10 gives us 3 exactly and not 3.14... Thus leading to legislatures trying to legislate Pi to be exactly three. Yes, they did this. Because regardless of reality the Bible knows best.

And that's the point. The Bible doesn't know best since it was written by fallible men like you and I and this is evidence of exactly that. Take a rope, wrap it around a vessel. Straighten out the rope and measure it. That's the circumference. It makes a difference if it's the inside or outside of the vessel. It doesn't matter if it's cubits or inches or meters or whathaveyou. As long as you don't change the length of a cubit in the middle of measuring.

Three is pretty accurate for that method. It's not accurate for a god.

And THAT'S THE POINT.

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

It is easily refuted. Yet not one of our brethren here refuted it. The point however isn't that the measurements could be off and that's the reason. Which, to any reasonable human being would be the point. The POINT of all this is that they claim the Bible is written by GOD. A being so perfect, so powerful and so wonderful that he wouldn't make mistakes like this. HE would KNOW that the way we figure out mathematical things about a circle is by using Pi. HE would know that Pi is 3.14159265... HE would know that 30/10 gives us 3 exactly and not 3.14... Thus leading to legislatures trying to legislate Pi to be exactly three. Yes, they did this. Because regardless of reality the Bible knows best.

And that's the point. The Bible doesn't know best since it was written by fallible men like you and I and this is evidence of exactly that. Take a rope, wrap it around a vessel. Straighten out the rope and measure it. That's the circumference. It makes a difference if it's the inside or outside of the vessel. It doesn't matter if it's cubits or inches or meters or whathaveyou. As long as you don't change the length of a cubit in the middle of measuring.

Three is pretty accurate for that method. It's not accurate for a god.

And THAT'S THE POINT.

Again, another instance where science trumps the information in the Bible.

 

[AV1611VET]

If it's all the same to you then, I'll get my math and science instruction from sources other than the bible.

Yes -- some of them are printed on the underside of a calculator; or you can get them from the little booklet that comes with them.

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

This atheist site essentially says that the pi=3 argument is a bad argument, easily refuted:



Peter

Thanks for posting that. I remembered reading some refutations by Christians, but I felt uneasy about them. Good to see an outside party with no vested interest show the pi=3 argument to be weak.

 

[Phred]

Thanks for posting that. I remembered reading some refutations by Christians, but I felt uneasy about them. Good to see an outside party with no vested interest show the pi=3 argument to be weak.

Ok... once again. The Bible does specifically show Pi to equal three. It does this because of the way they had to measure round things back then. But the point is that a God wouldn't have had to rely upon vague measuring techniques.

 

[AV1611VET]

Thanks for posting that. I remembered reading some refutations by Christians, but I felt uneasy about them. Good to see an outside party with no vested interest show the pi=3 argument to be weak.

As soon as they inject Pi into the conversation, they pwn themselves.

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

As soon as they inject Pi into the conversation, they pwn themselves.

Close, but no cigar.

Real math and science FTW.

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

As soon as they inject Pi into the conversation, they pwn themselves.

"pwn" is for 12 year olds playing Call of Duty

 

[razeontherock]

Three is pretty accurate for that method. It's not accurate for a god.

And THAT'S THE POINT.

No actually, the point is to see if you are willing to listen. And you are not. No one actually violates God's will, you merely become an example. And in this case you serve as a very clear and bad example. (Thanks for filling the void)

 

[razeontherock]

I Kings 7:23

AV, ya gonna link your pi thread?