Some Reasons I Don't Believe in Evolution

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Lion Hearted Man

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As the term is used amongst creationists, macro EV refers to quite a bit bigger leap than mere speciation, and I expect you realize this. (Didn't realize the term is also actually used by biologists as well; which used it first? Maybe Cr's need to come up with their own term?)

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Yes, it's an actual term. Seems you aren't as knowledgeable as you thought you were.

Macroevolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Macroevolutionary studies focus on change that occurs at or above the level of species, in contrast with microevolution,[2] which refers to smaller evolutionary changes (typically described as changes in allele frequencies) within a species or population.[3]

...which is exactly what I said, and which is exactly what I demonstrated. At or above the species level. And I showed you changes at the species level.

You can either accept that you were wrong or move the goalposts. Seems you've already chosen, though.

That was 29 months ago. AV, you still saying that?

Who else here has said Ev is the tool of satan?

I give AV more credit than to change his heartfelt pet theories every two years. He can feel free to make note of his change of heart. But at least admit that I had a reason for what I said.

Knowing how humble you are, I don't imagine you'll actually point out that you were wrong or that I was right.
 
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razeontherock

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exactly what I demonstrated. At or above the species level. And I showed you changes at the species level.

Knowing how humble you are, I don't imagine you'll actually point out that you were wrong or that I was right.


It's not a right-or-wrong issue. You didn't "show me changes at the species level." I'm actually the one that brought that up! It's merely a case of the same term being used to mean 2 different things. I can't give you credit for not being aware how the term "macro Ev" is used by Cr's, so all I see is dishonesty on your part.
 
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Lion Hearted Man

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It's not a right-or-wrong issue. You didn't "show me changes at the species level." I'm actually the one that brought that up!

Did you miss these?
Observed Instances of Speciation
Some More Observed Speciation Events

Observed instances of speciation = observed instances of evolution at the species level = observed instances of macroevolution = how can I make this more clear for you

It's merely a case of the same term being used to mean 2 different things. I can't give you credit for not being aware how the term "macro Ev" is used by Cr's, so all I see is dishonesty on your part.

You can't just make up new definitions for commonly used words. I showed you want macroevolution actually means. You could have been under the impression that it meant something else, but now you have been corrected.

Now you will have to say that both micro and macroevolution have been observed. Fair enough?

And I also can't see how my ignorance of how creationists use the word is evidence of my dishonesty. That makes absolutely no sense.
 
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razeontherock

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Observed instances of speciation = observed instances of evolution at the species level = observed instances of macroevolution = how can I make this more clear for you

Sorry but this is a Christian forum, and it's pretty commonly known that in discussion, "micro vs macro" Ev refers to acceptance of for example a horse to a zebra, (micro) but not necessarily buying that we descend from jellyfish. (macro)


You can't just make up new definitions for commonly used words.

You mean like God, or Faith? Things I see atheists mangle all the time?


I showed you want macroevolution actually means. You could have been under the impression that it meant something else, but now you have been corrected.

Now you will have to say that both micro and macroevolution have been observed. Fair enough?

No and no. Perhaps we could concoct some better term for Cr's to use for this concept, but neither of us should expect them to actually use it.

Got any suggestions for a better term?

And I also can't see how my ignorance of how creationists use the word is evidence of my dishonesty.

Ok I'll give you a pass; now you know.
 
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Lion Hearted Man

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Sorry but this is a Christian forum, and it's pretty commonly known that in discussion, "micro vs macro" Ev refers to acceptance of for example a horse to a zebra, (micro) but not necessarily buying that we descend from jellyfish. (macro)

Who said anything about descending from jellyfish? I think you need to go back to Biology 101. You complain about atheists mangling words like God and Faith, yet you spew out this nonsense that macroevolution states we descended from jellyfish? Do you know anything about what evolution says?

Ok I'll give you a pass; now you know.

Dishonesty requires intent.

Now, as far as coming up with a new word, what is it exactly that you think doesn't happen? If you think that jellyfish can't turn into humans, we are in agreement.
 
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plindboe

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It's not a right-or-wrong issue. You didn't "show me changes at the species level." I'm actually the one that brought that up! It's merely a case of the same term being used to mean 2 different things. I can't give you credit for not being aware how the term "macro Ev" is used by Cr's, so all I see is dishonesty on your part.

Co-opting scientific terminology and then perverting its meaning is what I'd call dishonest. The definition only changed because professional creationists started to admit that speciation did indeed take place, but instead of admitting that macroevolution took place they moved the goalposts by changing the definition.

Peter :)
 
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razeontherock

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Who said anything about descending from jellyfish? I think you need to go back to Biology 101. You complain about atheists mangling words like God and Faith, yet you spew out this nonsense that macroevolution states we descended from jellyfish? Do you know anything about what evolution says?

Yup, and it has been declared that animals descended from plants via jellyfish. Nothing online to that effect now, which means what? They goofed! Now how much of what is currently in textbooks is fact, vs speculation? Talk to a good scientist and they'll tell you, the teaching of Ev sux
 
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Lion Hearted Man

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Yup, and it has been declared that animals descended from plants via jellyfish. Nothing online to that effect now, which means what? They goofed! Now how much of what is currently in textbooks is fact, vs speculation? Talk to a good scientist and they'll tell you, the teaching of Ev sux

seinfeld.gif
 
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Incariol

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Yup, and it has been declared that animals descended from plants via jellyfish. Nothing online to that effect now, which means what? They goofed! Now how much of what is currently in textbooks is fact, vs speculation? Talk to a good scientist and they'll tell you, the teaching of Ev sux

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Nostromo

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Yup, and it has been declared that animals descended from plants via jellyfish. Nothing online to that effect now, which means what? They goofed! Now how much of what is currently in textbooks is fact, vs speculation? Talk to a good scientist and they'll tell you, the teaching of Ev sux
Sometimes it's best to just hold your hands up and admit you don't really know enough about a topic to have a reasonable discussion.
 
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Sometimes it's best to just hold your hands up and admit you don't really know enough about a topic to have a reasonable discussion.

You are free to wallow in ignorance
So are you saying that there is nothing you can not discuss because you know everything about everything?
do you ever say 'I don't know'?
By admitting you're a creationists you are telling everyone you know nothing about evolution.
 
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razeontherock

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So are you saying that there is nothing you can not discuss because you know everything about everything?
do you ever say 'I don't know'?
By admitting you're a creationists you are telling everyone you know nothing about evolution.

1) I'm not at all a creationist, (much less a creationists) the way that term is used.

2) I know a *good bit* about Ev theory, and had tested in the top 1% of the Nation on every aptitude test designed by the mid 90's - since you make an issue out of it.

3) There's plenty of issues I don't discuss, and plenty of things I don't form an opinion on. Ev / Cr being one of them. I expect someday someone will make sense out of the available facts, but that day is not now.
 
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Split Rock

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Yup, and it has been declared that animals descended from plants via jellyfish. Nothing online to that effect now, which means what? They goofed!
Sorry no. What it means is that no one ever claimed such a thing. In other words, there is no "they" that goofed... other than yourself, of course.

Now how much of what is currently in textbooks is fact, vs speculation? Talk to a good scientist and they'll tell you, the teaching of Ev sux
I consider myself a good scientist. I say that the teaching of creationism/ I.D. "sux." There... you are wrong again.
 
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