Some random discussion on evolution...

[46AND2]

There are many things we consider random. And of the non random things there are even more we consider without design. Feel free to show me wrong with supported examples.

Depends on how you define random. There are things which have unknowable outcomes based on the knowledge we possess, but given enough information, I can't think of anything that could be considered absolutely random.

That said, still irrelevant to the design debate.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Depends on how you define random. There are things which have unknowable outcomes based on the knowledge we possess, but given enough information, I can't think of anything that could be considered absolutely random.

That said, still irrelevant to the design debate.

Hence the phrase "we consider random". I didn't say they are random, I just said we consider them to be random.

 

[Kylie]

God accomplished all of evolution by design, not random.
So now it should be easier to understand.

I'm not aware of anyone who understands evolution who says it is random.

But that doesn't mean it was design.

 

[Shemjaza]

I'm not aware of anyone who understands evolution who says it is random.

But that doesn't mean it was design.

Randomness in mutations and genes passed to offspring generate the new variations for non-random selection to act on.

 

[SkyWriting]

I'm not aware of anyone who understands evolution who says it is random. But that doesn't mean it was design.

I would agree. Mutations are not random. They are by design and engineering with purpose and an intended end result.

 

[Kylie]

Randomness in mutations and genes passed to offspring generate the new variations for non-random selection to act on.

That doesn't mean that the end result of evolution is random. Natural selections, which acts on those mutations, is not random. And thus, the genes which have the highest likelihood of being passed to offspring is not random.

 

[Kylie]

I would agree. Mutations are not random. They are by design and engineering with purpose and an intended end result.

I did say "anyone who understands evolution." What you've said does not indicate an understanding of evolution. For a start, if there is a desired end result, why bother with the intermediate stages? Why not just start with that? It's like someone who wants to build a Tesla starting with a Model T Ford, even though they are perfectly capable of building a Tesla straight off.

 

[Speedwell]

I would agree. Mutations are not random. They are by design and engineering with purpose and an intended end result.

Then why are there so many and why are they not all beneficial?

 

[SkyWriting]

I did say "anyone who understands evolution." What you've said does not indicate an understanding of evolution. For a start, if there is a desired end result, why bother with the intermediate stages? Why not just start with that? It's like someone who wants to build a Tesla starting with a Model T Ford, even though they are perfectly capable of building a Tesla straight off.

For the same reason I grow raspberries instead of buying them.
We all know that building something from scratch is more satisfying.
I'd rather build a tesla than just find one with the keys in it.

 

[SkyWriting]

Then why are there so many and why are they not all beneficial?

I didn't say they were not all beneficial. If I don't know the final goal, then how can I determine something is not beneficial? My view is far too narrow to see the big picture.

Taking my tiny view...I'd say no people should die.....but we do.
So from the evolution standpoint.....why DO we die?

 

[SkyWriting]

I did say "anyone who understands evolution." What you've said does not indicate an understanding of evolution.

We all heard it the first time you claimed it.
Common complaint from every person and every topic.

 

[SkyWriting]

Then why are there so many and why are they not all beneficial?

Who says they are not beneficial?

 

[Ophiolite]

Who says they are not beneficial?

Most YECs.

 

[SkyWriting]

Most YECs.

Now your talking among the narrowest of observers.

I was at a YEC funded event and asked James Irwin face to face about the age of the moon after his speech. He indicated it was not "young". So I fully credit YEC's for converting out of the YEC mindset.

 

[Ophiolite]

Now your talking among the narrowest of observers.

Which means what exactly?
I am a narrow observer?
I have based my view on a sub-set of YECs who have a narrow viewpoint?
YECs in general are among the narrowest of observers?
Something else entirely.

I was at a YEC funded event and asked James Irwin face to face about the age of the moon after his speech. He indicated it was not "young". So I fully credit YEC's for converting out of the YEC mindset.

Tell that to some of the YECs on this forum. It is unsurprising to find such diversity (disagreement/fundamental differences) among the group. I suggest it is flawed thinking to extrapolate the vague assertion of one YEC to the group at large.

 

[xianghua]

Reposting for @xianghua

One of these waterfalls is natural, the other is man made. Please tell us which is which and how you came to that conclusion. I'm interested to know how you detect design.

i cant since there is a natural process that can create waterfalls. thus i cant conclude design when i see a waterfall.

 

[xianghua]

It would be evidence against design. Not absolute proof against it.

why it will be evidence against design? we all know that a fan is evidence for design. why doest it matter if it can reproduce or not?

 

[SkyWriting]

Which means what exactly?
I am a narrow observer?
I have based my view on a sub-set of YECs who have a narrow viewpoint?
YECs in general are among the narrowest of observers?

Having been a YEC for over a decade and attended YEC live events and
listed to YEC speakers locally and world speakers.....There is zero debate
among them. They welcome all YEC ideas. If it's YE based then there is
nothing to debate, in public.

 

[SkyWriting]

Tell that to some of the YECs on this forum. It is unsurprising to find such diversity (disagreement/fundamental differences) among the group. I suggest it is flawed thinking to extrapolate the vague assertion of one YEC to the group at large.

It's not. Go to YEC events and you'll find no conflict among members.

 

[Ophiolite]

It's not. Go to YEC events and you'll find no conflict among members.

Then how do you account for the differences on CF?