Some random discussion on evolution...

[Kylie]

actually the opposite is true. i never said that we can always detect design. we can detect design only in some objects that are clearly the product of design. like watch a car or an airplane. you dont?

Can you provide an example of something where you CAN'T tell if it is designed or not?

 

[pitabread]

we can detect design only in some objects that are clearly the product of design.

What makes an object "clearly the product of design"? How do you think design is detected?

 

[Bungle_Bear]

so if you will see a car evolving naturally in front of your eyes you will still conclude design?

Show us one of these cars and I'll tell you if I conclude design.

If you can't show us one then the point is irrelevant - how can we detect design in a non-existent object? And I'd like an answer to that question - how can we detect design in a non-existent object?

 

[xianghua]

The opposite is not true. Your whole schtick is that we can detect design simply by looking at something, but when asked to demonstrate how this works your answer was "I can't".


How do you know they are designed? If you are relying on prior knowledge then you are not detecting design. If you have no prior knowledge but can detect design you should be able to use the same technique to identify any object that has been designed, yet you were unable to identify the designed waterfall. That's tacit admission that your argument is worthless and wrong.

so can you tell me how you detect design when you see a watch? i also detect design in a watch because it has a clear evidence of purpose- to say the time.

 

[xianghua]

how can we detect design in a non-existent object? And I'd like an answer to that question - how can we detect design in a non-existent object?

what is the problem? if i will see a self replicating car i will conclude design since a self replicating car cant evolve by a natural process. see? its not that hard to talk about theoretical cases.

 

[xianghua]

Can you provide an example of something where you CAN'T tell if it is designed or not?

sure. a sand dune.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

what is the problem? if i will see a self replicating car i will conclude design since a self replicating car cant evolve by a natural process. see? its not that hard to talk about theoretical cases.

But how do you know that a self replicating car can only come about by design? Because you know that cars are manmade objects.
Your argument is ridiculous and you really should stop.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

...why you believe that a natural process can made something that even the smartest man on earth cant do?

It's not that the smartest person on Earth couldn't, in principle, do it; it's that they have neither the time nor the resources. Evolution works with whole populations interacting with whole ecosystems over many times the lifetime of any human. This is how a trial-and-error process can accumulate results of such functional complexity.

 

[Kylie]

sure. a sand dune.

What indications of design does a sand dune lack?

 

[46AND2]

what is the problem? if i will see a self replicating car i will conclude design since a self replicating car cant evolve by a natural process. see? its not that hard to talk about theoretical cases.

Bull. A self-replicating car can do whatever you want it to do. That's how fantasy works.

 

[Astrophile]

so can you tell me how you detect design when you see a watch? i also detect design in a watch because it has a clear evidence of purpose- to say the time.

My watch has the manufacturer's name inscribed on the back, along with other information, for example that it has a Japanese movement and was cased in China. It is this fact that convinces me that the watch was designed.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

what is the problem? if i will see a self replicating car i will conclude design since a self replicating car cant evolve by a natural process. see? its not that hard to talk about theoretical cases.

I think you're trying to say that you would use pre-existing knowledge of self-replicating cars. As I already made clear, that is not detecting design. I want to know how you detect design.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

so can you tell me how you detect design when you see a watch? i also detect design in a watch because it has a clear evidence of purpose- to say the time.

That is not how you detect design in a watch. Purpose is not an evidence of design. You infer design from evidences of manufacture.

Let me point you back to my waterfall question - how would you go about deciding which was man made?

 

[Ophiolite]

That is not how you detect design in a watch. Purpose is not an evidence of design. You infer design from evidences of manufacture.

If I were a YEC this is where I would come in and say:

I get my evidence of design from the manufacturer's brochure on his watches. It is the same with my evidence for design in nature. I get it from the Manufacturer's Brochure, the Bible.

As a science oriented agnostic I would find that a charming and elegant presentation of the essentially faith based nature of the YEC belief.

 

[Ophiolite]

What indications of design does a sand dune lack?

The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind. The answer is blowing in the wind.

 

[xianghua]

But how do you know that a self replicating car can only come about by design? Because you know that cars are manmade objects.

as i know that gears are manmade objects.

 

[xianghua]

What indications of design does a sand dune lack?

that it can evolve naturally.

 

[xianghua]

My watch has the manufacturer's name inscribed on the back, along with other information, for example that it has a Japanese movement and was cased in China. It is this fact that convinces me that the watch was designed.

so you cant conclude design if you will see a watch without manufacturer's name inscribed on the back?

 

[xianghua]

I think you're trying to say that you would use pre-existing knowledge of self-replicating cars.

no. since i never seen someone who made a self replicating car. so i have no pre-existing knowledge of self-replicating cars

 

[xianghua]

That is not how you detect design in a watch. Purpose is not an evidence of design. You infer design from evidences of manufacture.

Let me point you back to my waterfall question - how would you go about deciding which was man made?

as i said- i cant in the waterfall case but i can in the watch\car case. very simple.