Some random discussion on evolution...

[OldWiseGuy]

Here's the thing: there is no end result. Like I said, the process is ongoing. You can have plenty of changes that don't further the large change. Your mammal can eventually grow wings while changing eye or fur color.

There is no plan that the process is working towards. Whichever little changes improve the chances for reproduction will become more common in the population, the ones that are harmful will be weeded out, and the neutral ones will linger on. A mammal might go from arms to gliders to fully functional wings over many tiny steps, with each tiny step working just a bit better in whatever environment the mammal is in. There is no plan to end up flying, and another population might develop different changes that work just as well.

So each tiny step requires a change in the environment?

 

[pitabread]

Isn't that an example of 'recursive'?

What "that" are you referring to?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

What "that" are you referring to?

Building with blocks.

 

[Yttrium]

So each tiny step requires a change in the environment?

Well, on the one hand I could say that each tiny step could take place in an ongoing environment. But environments are always changing. Food supplies can dwindle, different food supplies can come along, different predators can come and go, floods happen, etc. A certain environment pressure could last a long time, with a number of changes happening over time that work better under that pressure.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Well, on the one hand I could say that each tiny step could take place in an ongoing environment. But environments are always changing. Food supplies can dwindle, different food supplies can come along, different predators can come and go, floods happen, etc. A certain environment pressure could last a long time, with a number of changes happening over time that work better under that pressure.

So evolution continues even through catastrophic environmental changes?

 

[Yttrium]

So evolution continues even through catastrophic environmental changes?

Oh, catastrophes are great for evolutionary changes. Unless they make the whole population dead. That's bad.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Oh, catastrophes are great for evolutionary changes. Unless they make the whole population dead. That's bad.

Yeah, but at least there'd be no one left to complain.

 

[sfs]

So evolution continues even through catastrophic environmental changes?

Yes. It also continues when the environment doesn't change at all.

 

[Kylie]

Isn't that what you wanted to hear? Of course I was to blame, men are always to blame. Wives are blameless victims of neanderthal husbands.

(Apologies to any Neanderthal's out there.)

Telling people what they want to hear instead of the truth is not going to impress me. I find it deceptive and manipulative.

 

[Kylie]

Maybe God just tossed some zingers in there for you guys.

Do you actually believe that's the best explanation for what we see in the real world?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Do you actually believe that's the best explanation for what we see in the real world?

God does have a sense of humor.

Did you ever hear the term "strong delusion"?
2 Thessalonians 2:11

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Telling people what they want to hear instead of the truth is not going to impress me. I find it deceptive and manipulative.

I don't think you would believe anything I say.

 

[Jimmy D]

God does have a sense of humor.

Did you ever hear the term "strong delusion"?
2 Thessalonians 2:11

Tricking people so they believe satan's lies and perish, yeah, hilarious.

 

[tampasteve]

MOD HAT ON

This thread has had a clean. Please refrain from flaming, goading, etc. As with all cleans, some good material that was in reply to a flame or goad has also been removed. If flaming and goading continues the thread could be closed permanently. Keep it civil and clean.

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[chuckpeterson]

Telling people what they want to hear instead of the truth is not going to impress me. I find it deceptive and manipulative.

Let's try to keep trump out of this discussion

 

[chuckpeterson]

Personally. I believe earth was sprinkled with the basic building blocks of life that included the genetic tools to live in this environment; from there they either adapted or perished.

Mantises are an order (Mantodea) of insects that contains over 2,400 species in about 430 genera in 15 families. The largest family is the Mantidae ("mantids"). Mantises are distributed worldwide in temperate and tropical habitats. They have triangular heads with bulging eyes supported on flexible necks. Their elongated bodies may or may not have wings, but all Mantodea have forelegs that are greatly enlarged and adapted for catching and gripping prey; their upright posture, while remaining stationary with forearms folded, has led to the common name praying mantis.
Mantis - Wikipedia

From my point of view of things, the Mantis is not a product of random mutation

 

[Kylie]

I don't think you would believe anything I say.

I'll believe anything you say, as long as you can back it up.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Tricking people so they believe satan's lies and perish, yeah, hilarious.

I separated the two statements with a space indicating two different themes, therefore they should not be conflated.

Their minds were made up before God gave them strong delusion. Read the scripture for what it says.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I'll believe anything you say, as long as you can back it up.

I picked up nearly 100 bags of trash, a dozen tires, cleaned up three trash sites left by remodelers, a dozen 5 gallon metal pails, a stuffed chair, several bedframes and mattresses, a large BBQ grill, a bumper jack, and dozens of assorted other discarded things from my hunting area over a three year period. Believe me?

 

[Kylie]

I picked up nearly 100 bags of trash, a dozen tires, cleaned up three trash sites left by remodelers, a dozen 5 gallon metal pails, a stuffed chair, several bedframes and mattresses, a large BBQ grill, a bumper jack, and dozens of assorted other discarded things from my hunting area over a three year period. Believe me?

Have you ever heard of the phrase, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"?

You see, what you've described is entirely plausible. It's not an extraordinary claim. Lots of people pick up trash. I wouldn't need much evidence to get me thinking that maybe you did do that.

But when people start talking about God, and there was a guy called Jesus and all that, well, those claims are quite a bit more extraordinary. And so, I need some extraordinary evidence before I'll believe those claims.