Some random discussion on evolution...

[OldWiseGuy]

What does that tell us about you?

The real answer is that we both married the wrong person.

 

[chuckpeterson]

I loaded the video but all I got was some music and the cover picture?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

By 'lucky' I was referring to evolution.

'Luck' has nothing to do with it.

 

[chuckpeterson]

There are also other living creatures that are evolving that we should not lose sight of; as in the virous and ameba

 

[OldWiseGuy]

There are many things in anatomy that don't make sense from a design point of view, yet make perfect sense from an evolutionary point of view.

Maybe God just tossed some zingers in there for you guys.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

'Luck' has nothing to do with it.

So evolution is a carefully thought out and planned process?

 

[Ophiolite]

There is not a dichotomy between "luck" and "planning". You know this. You've been told often enough. Playing dumb just doesn't cut it. It's not cute, it's not smart, it's not polite, it's not the action of someone wishing a mature discussion.

For the lurkers:
There is no planning, since evolution is "set in motion" through variation within populations initiated by random mutations.
There is no luck, since evolution then proceeds via natural selection, a process where consequences are constrained by environment, events and genetics.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

So evolution is a carefully thought out and planned process?

If you believe it to be and believe that God is constantly tinkering with His creation, then yes.
If you don't, then no. Evolution just happens.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I loaded the video but all I got was some music and the cover picture?

That was the point.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

There is not a dichotomy between "luck" and "planning". You know this. You've been told often enough. Playing dumb just doesn't cut it. It's not cute, it's not smart, it's not polite, it's not the action of someone wishing a mature discussion.

For the lurkers:
There is no planning, since evolution is "set in motion" through variation within populations initiated by random mutations.
There is no luck, since evolution then proceeds via natural selection, a process where consequences are constrained by environment, events and genetics.

I wouldn't expect evolution to produce such complex and elegant designs but instead rather grotesque things.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I wouldn't expect evolution to produce such complex and elegant designs but instead rather grotesque things.

Why?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

There is not a dichotomy between "luck" and "planning". You know this. You've been told often enough. Playing dumb just doesn't cut it. It's not cute, it's not smart, it's not polite, it's not the action of someone wishing a mature discussion.

For the lurkers:
There is no planning, since evolution is "set in motion" through variation within populations initiated by random mutations.
There is no luck, since evolution then proceeds via natural selection, a process where consequences are constrained by environment, events and genetics.

You are indicating circular reasoning here; random mutations preceding and following evolution.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Why?

Because evolution depends on mutations, which are called mutants, and seldom good. How long does it take to consolidate a mutation, and what environmental conditions must prevail during this period?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Because evolution depends on mutations, which are called mutants, and seldom good. How long does it take to consolidate a mutation, and what environmental conditions must prevail during this period?

... mutations hardly ever result in things like the creatures from sci-fi films. Heck, I have a mutation in me that means out of all of my immediate family (mum, dad and older sister), I'm the only one with curly hair. Genetically and technically, that makes me a mutant.
Sure, harmful mutations exist, but those are rare.

To consolidate a mutation... I don't get the phrasing behind that. How can a mutation be 'consolidated'?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

... mutations hardly ever result in things like the creatures from sci-fi films. Heck, I have a mutation in me that means out of all of my immediate family (mum, dad and older sister), I'm the only one with curly hair. Genetically and technically, that makes me a mutant.
Sure, harmful mutations exist, but those are rare.

I thought that was a variant?

To consolidate a mutation... I don't get the phrasing behind that. How can a mutation be 'consolidated'?

Make all the muscular, vascular, and neural connections.

 

[Ophiolite]

I wouldn't expect evolution to produce such complex and elegant designs but instead rather grotesque things.

Yes. I know you would. That's because your expectation is based upon self imposed ignorance. I can't help you out there: my superpowers do not include anti-intransigence mojo.

You are indicating circular reasoning here; random mutations preceding and following evolution.

No. When I drive from Houston to Dallas there is a Holiday Inn that precedes Conroe and one that follows it. That doesn't mean the Holiday Inn chain doesn't exist.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

No. When I drive from Houston to Dallas there is a Holiday Inn that precedes Conroe and one that follows it. That doesn't mean the Holiday Inn chain doesn't exist.

We've been through this before. Evolution needs the precursors of evolution. So where did they come from? It's a simple chicken/egg question.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I thought that was a variant?

Which is caused by a mutation in the gene. A mutation is just a variation.
Northern European populations have a mutation in their gene that allows them to process more Vitamin D through the historically low levels of sunlight in Northern Europe.

Make all the muscular, vascular, and neural connections.

... nope, still not getting what you're saying. Try again.

 

[Ophiolite]

We've been through this before. Evolution needs the precursors of evolution. So where did they come from? It's a simple chicken/egg question.

Yes we have. You didn't understand it then. I'm not going to waste my time going over it again. If you can't grasp it maybe go watch some Sesame Street. I always find it relaxing.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Which is caused by a mutation in the gene. A mutation is just a variation.
Northern European populations have a mutation in their gene that allows them to process more Vitamin D through the historically low levels of sunlight in Northern Europe.

I've considered that as well and have concluded that it was God's purpose that the Israelites (northern Europeans) were design to prosper physically from the great blessing of being able to digest and assimilate milk.

... nope, still not getting what you're saying. Try again.

I think you're dodging the question.

We're not talking about curly hair here but major changes; limbs, organs, bone, nerves, blood vessels, brain changes, etc. How long to consolidate these changes? How long from variant to finished product? And where does the additional information come from? Or is it a variant of a variant of a variant of a variant of a variant that finally produced the finished product?