Some questions for Christians who accept evolution

[crjmurray]

Nonsense. Maybe the caricature of creation that gets banded about, but if you go direct to the scientists and listen to what they have to say, it makes perfect sense. The fact that you have called it creationism, rather than creation science reveals your hostility towards it. It makes far more sense than an idea that everything could come from nothing by undirected chance could ever do. If the general public had a fraction of the exposure to proper creation science, I think the percentage of the public that would accept it would be far higher. It's only because there is almost blanket coverage of evolution by the media that the theory does as well as it does and even then it's not as widely accepted as it ought to be if it really were the truth. Most people have never heard any of the arguments against the theory and when I have shown some of them to friends, they have become eager to find out more.

Incidentally, I was listening to a recorded sermon by someone who used to be the senior pastor at my local church but who is now a pastor and elder in one of the churches in Bath, UK and he expressed concern that the Bible is coming under attack both from without the church but also from within, by people adding false ideas and distorting the Gospel. And yes, he unashamedly believes the Bible to be inerrant like I do and in the historical account of creation as described in Genesis (he even said so in front of his congregation during the sermon I was listening to). Nothing has changed in that respect then as the Holy Scriptures have come under attack ever since Satan put doubt in Eve's mind about what God really said. In Jesus's time, it was the Pharisees and Sadducees (not sure about the spelling of the latter), who distorted God's word by either adding to it or subtracting from it. Today, it is under attack again from humanists and their religion of evolution, plus Muslim extremists like IS and yet people still refuse to recant their faith in the Lord Jesus.

Ancient astronaut proponents say the exact same crap.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Then the truth is revealing the dishonesty of creationism.

And yet the lies that support it live on.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Jesus Christ

noting that Jesus himself gave little to no details -- those get tossed in later... in his name, of course.

 

[Chriliman]

Then the truth is revealing the dishonesty of creationism.

I honesty don't care what men think, I do care about what they believe.

The bigger question is if you think truth came before lies, then did man's self awareness come before truth? In other words is our self awareness creating the truths we realize? And if you believe this then how could it have ever been true that we are self aware?

If you believe truth came before our self awareness, then who or what realized that truth?

Mind benders I know, but only one option is true, they can't both be true because truth is truth, it can't contradict.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I honesty don't care what men think, I do care about what they believe.

Thinking = bad; believing = good. Got it.

The bigger question is if you think truth came before lies, then did man's self awareness come before truth? In other words is our self awareness creating the truths we realize? And if you believe this then how could it have ever been true that we are self aware?

If you believe truth came before our self awareness, then who or what realized that truth?

Mind benders I know, but only one option is true, they can't both be true because truth is truth, it can't contradict.

Nice doubletalk; but we've heard better.

 

[AV1611VET]

noting that Jesus himself gave little to no details -- those get tossed in later... in his name, of course.

He said enough that one can ascertain that He is a creationist.

 

[Chriliman]

Thinking = bad; believing = good. Got it.



Nice doubletalk; but we've heard better.

Typical atheist/agnostic/humanist, unable to answer tough questions because they refuse to think. The reason I don't care what you think is because it's too easy to just not think, I do care what you believe because we all must believe something, we have no other choice but to believe.

Do you believe in an unalterable truth? For example if you were unconscious would it still be unalterably true that the universe exists? These are two questions that I expect honest answers to and I don't expect you to avoid them, if you're being honest with yourself.

 

[TLK Valentine]

He said enough that one can ascertain that He is a creationist.

And little more.

Let that be a lesson to other creationists -- the less you say, the less you have to lie.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Typical atheist/agnostic/humanist, unable to answer tough questions because they refuse to think.

The question is "tough" because it's incoherent.

The reason I don't care what you think is because it's too easy to just not think, I do care what you believe because we all must believe something, we have no other choice but to believe.

That's like saying you're more interested in people breathing -- after all, we have no other choice.

But since (as you've said) it's so easy to not think, those who choose to do so must have a reason... but thinking doesn't interest you, for some reason.

Do you believe in an unalterable truth? For example if you were unconscious would it still be unalterably true that the universe exists?

But of course -- I call it "reality." What you and I would consider "truth" is that which corresponds with reality, as opposed to ignoreing or denying it.

These are two questions that I expect honest answers to and I don't expect you to avoid them, if you're being honest with yourself.

Actually, it's just one question -- with an example. And I've answered it.

 

[Loudmouth]

I honesty don't care what men think, I do care about what they believe.

I would hope that you cared about what was true.

The bigger question is if you think truth came before lies, then did man's self awareness come before truth?

There was an objective universe before man, so the objective and measurable universe preceded man.

In other words is our self awareness creating the truths we realize?

The universe is independent of humans. Our beliefs do not change the universe.

And if you believe this then how could it have ever been true that we are self aware?

Why couldn't we be self aware in a universe that is true independent of what we believe?

If you believe truth came before our self awareness, then who or what realized that truth?

You don't need a who. All you need is a particle interacting with energy. There will be a resulting effect, and that is what creates truth in our universe.

Mind benders I know, but only one option is true, they can't both be true because truth is truth, it can't contradict.

It is Jr. High School pseudophilosophy at best.

 

[Not_By_Chance]

And yet the lies that support it live on.

I've just found an interesting article for any Christians who are struggling with the creation/evolution issue:-
http://creation.com/jesus-age-earth

 

[TLK Valentine]

I've just found an interesting article for any Christians who are struggling with the creation/evolution issue:-
http://creation.com/jesus-age-earth

What a coincidence! I found four:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/january/32.62.html

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-christian-mans-evolution/

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2009/10/14/evolution

https://www.bigquestionsonline.com/content/how-are-christianity-and-evolution-compatible

 

[sfs]

I've just found an interesting article for any Christians who are struggling with the creation/evolution issue:-
http://creation.com/jesus-age-earth

Not_By_Chance, you started a thread in which you said you'd never seen any evidence for evolution. A couple of us posted evidence in that thread and you didn't reply. Did you see those posts? Can you see this post?

 

[Not_By_Chance]

"over the clear teaching of God as given to use in the Bible and Jesus's suffering and death on the cross becomes meaningless."
Rubbish. Don't insinuate I'm not a Christian because I'm a Theistic Evolutionist. Most of my Christian friends and most of the professional ministers and, even better, most of the professional full time theologians (bible college lecturers) I know are Theistic Evolutionists. Why? Because Genesis simply doesn't tell us how the world was made, and we are free to listen to science on that one. It's a poem that tells us why! If you're going to insist it is literal, you're going to have to prove it because I'm 100% convinced it is literary, not literal. I'm also 100% convinced it is God's word and TRUE, but just in a different genre to the more historical narrative we have by the end of the book of Genesis.
Do we worship Jesus the God man? Or do we worship Jesus the 7 horned 7 eyed space-lamb? That's how Revelation portrays him! So how do you know what genre of writing we are reading? How would you recognise a creative narrative like a poem or parable or metaphor? What signals are you looking out for?

I didn't insinuate you're not a Christian, but I think we all have to decide who is the final authority here, man's ideas or God's. I believe that God intended Genesis to be literal history and I believe that Jesus alluded to that, plus it's supported in other areas of the Bible, not just in Genesis. You might be interested to follow the link I have provided towards the current end of this thread, including the comments by readers that appear at the bottom.

 

[bhsmte]

Not_By_Chance, you started a thread in which you said you'd never seen any evidence for evolution. A couple of us posted evidence in that thread and you didn't reply. Did you see those posts? Can you see this post?

Yea, I wonder why those posts were ignored?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Yea, I wonder why those posts were ignored?

I don't.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I didn't insinuate you're not a Christian, but I think we all have to decide who is the final authority here, man's ideas or God's. I believe that God intended Genesis to be literal history and I believe that Jesus alluded to that, plus it's supported in other areas of the Bible, not just in Genesis. You might be interested to follow the link I have provided towards the current end of this thread, including the comments by readers that appear at the bottom.

I think we all have to decide who is the final authority here -- your ideas or someone else's.

 

[Not_By_Chance]

Yea, I wonder why those posts were ignored?

Which posts in particular are you referring to? This is such an active forum it's hard to keep up with everything.

 

[bhsmte]

Which posts in particular are you referring to? This is such an active forum it's hard to keep up with everything.

The one's with the evidence in them, that you claim to have missed.

 

[Papias]

Well, aside from the fact that you haven't responded to my last post on this thread, here is one of the many times you've been shown some of the evidence. http://www.christianforums.com/threads/opinion-on-a-creation-v-evolution-summary.7889986/

Why is it that creationists so often can't seem to do simply searches on their own?

In Christ-

Papias