Some questions for Christians who accept evolution

[Loudmouth]

I think Satan is using several ways to attack God's word. He's sowing discord amongst the world's population in general and Christians in particular ("Did God really say...?");

That's a perfect description of creationism. I can't think of a better tool to scare people away from Christianity than creationism.

 

[Loudmouth]

Satans only weapon is deception. I'm constantly asking Jesus to protect my mind heart and soul from deception, this is all I can do to protect myself and find hope, faith and love that only comes from God. If the Holy Spirit lives in you, then your being lead to expose satan's lies and reveal God's Truth.

Then you should be asking why professional creationists like Hovind and Gish lie so much. Why is almost everything they say a misrepresentation of the truth?

I have yet to find a creationist who honestly portrays the facts. Not one.

 

[Chriliman]

Then you should be asking why professional creationists like Hovind and Gish lie so much. Why is almost everything they say a misrepresentation of the truth?

I have yet to find a creationist who honestly portrays the facts. Not one.

Without making any assumptions about these men, I'll say anyone who focuses on "creation" and ignores everything else God might be trying to teach them is missing the Truth entirely. Pride makes us think that what we're focused on is the only thing that matters, when in reality God is the only thing that matters and He's the only thing we should be focused on if we want truth to be revealed to us. You need to believe in Jesus if want this truth in your life

 

[Loudmouth]

Without making any assumptions about these men,

Why make assumptions when you can compare their lies to the real facts? For example, Hovind was famous for claiming that carbon dating of two pieces from the same mammoth produced wildly different dates. The truth of the matter is that the two dates were from two different mammoths found hundreds of miles apart.

http://www.angelfire.com/alt2/digicam/mammoth.html

Duane Gish trotted out this whopper one time:

"If we look at certain proteins, yes, man then -- it can be assumed that man is more closely related to a chimpanzee than other things. But on the other hand, if you look at other certain proteins, you'll find that man is more closely related to a bullfrog than he is a chimpanzee. If you focus your attention on other proteins, you'll find that man is more closely related to a chicken than he is to a chimpanzee."
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/cre-error.html

Even when he was shown that it was untrue, and even when given the chance to correct it, he never did. He stuck by his guns and kept the lie alive.

Time after time after time, creationists are caught telling these whoppers, and they never stop doing it even when corrected. Even worse, those lies keep getting repeated by well meaning people in these forums, and we have to keep correcting each one, over and over and over and over . . .

 

[Chriliman]

Why make assumptions when you can compare their lies to the real facts? For example, Hovind was famous for claiming that carbon dating of two pieces from the same mammoth produced wildly different dates. The truth of the matter is that the two dates were from two different mammoths found hundreds of miles apart.

http://www.angelfire.com/alt2/digicam/mammoth.html

Duane Gish trotted out this whopper one time:

"If we look at certain proteins, yes, man then -- it can be assumed that man is more closely related to a chimpanzee than other things. But on the other hand, if you look at other certain proteins, you'll find that man is more closely related to a bullfrog than he is a chimpanzee. If you focus your attention on other proteins, you'll find that man is more closely related to a chicken than he is to a chimpanzee."
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/cre-error.html

Even when he was shown that it was untrue, and even when given the chance to correct it, he never did. He stuck by his guns and kept the lie alive.

Time after time after time, creationists are caught telling these whoppers, and they never stop doing it even when corrected. Even worse, those lies keep getting repeated by well meaning people in these forums, and we have to keep correcting each one, over and over and over and over . . .

I agree, the truth is tough to uncover. I'm going to ask you an honest question: If an all loving, honest and righteous God does not exist, why does it matter if people lie? Why does lying bother you? Isn't there some intrinsic belief within yourself that the truth matters? If God does not exist, how did this drive from within yourself arise to try and find this truth about life? This truth apparently coming from nothing. If truth came from nothing, why does truth matter? If truth came from nothing, then lies also came from nothing, yet here we are saying truth matters and lies only hide the truth. Sorry long question.

I'm glad you're seeking truth, just don't be surprised when the truth comes from somewhere you didn't expect it to come from.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I suggest you stop focusing on the beginning and start focusing on the end.

Evolution does a fine job of talking about the Beginning and the end. The extinctions and explosions. They know how it's all going to end.

 

[Strathos]

Another massive strawman... evolution is about the diversity of life on earth, nothing more and nothing less

 

[Chriliman]

Evolution does a fine job of talking about the Beginning and the end. The extinctions and explosions. They know how it's all going to end.

It is interesting, we can clearly see that the dinosaurs were killed off by a giant asteroid, but when we read in the Bible that fire will fall from heaven in the end times and destroy evil, many of us find it hard to believe.

Revelation 20:7
"And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

Do you think the men who wrote the Bible had any idea what had killed the dinosaurs? Yet here we have a clear description of fire coming down from the sky to destroy something, written in the Bible. Coincidence? I don't believe so.

Romans 1:20
"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

I hope and pray the excuses will start to vanish as more people see truth in the Bible.

 

[Not_By_Chance]

Satans only weapon is deception. I'm constantly asking Jesus to protect my mind heart and soul from deception, this is all I can do to protect myself and find hope, faith and love that only comes from God. If the Holy Spirit lives in you, then your being lead to expose satan's lies and reveal God's Truth. The bible should be looked at as a whole. So if we decide to study genesis we should not just focus on genesis, but look at other scripture throughout that can support what genesis says. Scripture should always support scripture and only the Holy Spirit can discern what's true and what's satan trying to use the bible to lie to us. I'd like to start a thread on revelation based on what God has been pressing on my heart , God willing! Trust in Him, He's got it covered

Good. Go for it. I don't know too much about Revelation, but I'd like to learn.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I agree, the truth is tough to uncover.

In this case, it wasn't all that tough at all -- not that Hovind or Gish would know the truth if it jumped out of a cake.

I'm going to ask you an honest question: If an all loving, honest and righteous God does not exist, why does it matter if people lie? Why does lying bother you? Isn't there some intrinsic belief within yourself that the truth matters?

Hovind and Gish both claim to believe in a loving, righteous, and honest God... and they seem to be sorely lacking in that "intrinsic belief."

How about you? Does truth matter to you?

 

[TLK Valentine]

It is interesting, we can clearly see that the dinosaurs were killed off by a giant asteroid, but when we read in the Bible that fire will fall from heaven in the end times and destroy evil, many of us find it hard to believe.

if one sees tire tracks and burning wreckage, one can clearly see that a car crash occurred.

How do you go from that to believing that all the bad people in the world will die in a giant car crash?

Do you think the men who wrote the Bible had any idea what had killed the dinosaurs? Yet here we have a clear description of fire coming down from the sky to destroy something, written in the Bible. Coincidence? I don't believe so.

Do you think the men who wrote the Bible never saw a "shooting star" before in their lives?

 

[Not_By_Chance]

So does evolution.

Humans, chimps, and baboons are all able to have similar fertile primate offspring.

Humans, bears, and echidnas are all able to have similar fertile mammal offspring.

Humans, birds, and fish are all able to have similar fertile vertebrate offspring.

How can humans, birds and fish have similar offspring? You can't cross a human with a fish (at least, I've never heard of that happening)! The point is, creation scientists don't deny change - in fact they support it as it's part of their theory, supported by what it says in The Bible. So, a dog kind, which could include wolves, coyotes and all the versions of domestic dogs for instance, will be part of the same group, but although big differences can occur within the group by genetic changes from one generation to the next, they will never, no matter how much time is allowed, change into say, birds. The same applies to humans. Creation scientists and many Christians believe that humans are all the same kind, but obviously there are many differences, some of which are no doubt as a result of local environmental factors (I'm sure it's no coincidence that pre-jet age times, dark-skinned people lived more or less exclusively in the parts of the world that receive the strongest sunshine, while fair-skinned people lived in the more temperate parts where strong sunshine is less prevalent).

 

[Loudmouth]

I agree, the truth is tough to uncover. I'm going to ask you an honest question: If an all loving, honest and righteous God does not exist, why does it matter if people lie?

Because it is immoral to lie to other people, whether a deity exists or not. You do know about morality, do you not?

Why does lying bother you?

The bigger question is, why doesn't it bother you? If there is a loving God that created the Earth as described in Genesis, why do creationists have to use lies? If the only way to defend creationism is to use lies, what does that say about creationism?

Isn't there some intrinsic belief within yourself that the truth matters?

There is a very rational and logical conclusion that we should treat each other fairly and in a moral manner.

If God does not exist, how did this drive from within yourself arise to try and find this truth about life?

It's called empathy, reason, and logic. None of it requires a deity.

This truth apparently coming from nothing.

Morality comes from the interaction of people. That isn't nothing.

I'm glad you're seeking truth, just don't be surprised when the truth comes from somewhere you didn't expect it to come from.

I see you trying to hide from the truth.

 

[Not_By_Chance]

It is interesting, we can clearly see that the dinosaurs were killed off by a giant asteroid, but when we read in the Bible that fire will fall from heaven in the end times and destroy evil, many of us find it hard to believe.

Revelation 20:7
"And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

Do you think the men who wrote the Bible had any idea what had killed the dinosaurs? Yet here we have a clear description of fire coming down from the sky to destroy something, written in the Bible. Coincidence? I don't believe so.

Romans 1:20
"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

I hope and pray the excuses will start to vanish as more people see truth in the Bible.

Unfortunately, although I share your wish, I'm not holding my breath. I think people know in their hearts that God exists but are wilfully ignorant of Him. I think it says as much somewhere in the New Testament doesn't it?

 

[Loudmouth]

How can humans, birds and fish have similar offspring? You can't cross a human with a fish (at least, I've never heard of that happening)!

They are all vertebrates, and they all have similar vertebrate offspring.

The point is, creation scientists don't deny change - in fact they support it as it's part of their theory, supported by what it says in The Bible. So, a dog kind, which could include wolves, coyotes and all the versions of domestic dogs for instance,

The vertebrate kind would include humans, birds, and fish. Same thing.

will be part of the same group, but although big differences can occur within the group by genetic changes from one generation to the next, they will never, no matter how much time is allowed, change into say, birds.

I agree. The theory of evolution also states that no dog will ever evolve into a bird. It also states that no ancestor of any bird was a dog.

The same applies to humans.

I agree. No human will ever evolve into a bird. All ancestors of humans will be humans, just as one of our ancestors was a mammal, and we are still mammals.

 

[Loudmouth]

It is interesting, we can clearly see that the dinosaurs were killed off by a giant asteroid, but when we read in the Bible that fire will fall from heaven in the end times and destroy evil, many of us find it hard to believe.

Where is the evidence that the meteor that killed off the dinosaurs was the result of Satan being released from prison?

Do you think the men who wrote the Bible had any idea what had killed the dinosaurs? Yet here we have a clear description of fire coming down from the sky to destroy something, written in the Bible. Coincidence? I don't believe so.

Yes, coincidence. It is very easy to take vague language from ancient texts and reimagine them as modern events.

Romans 1:20
"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

I hope and pray the excuses will start to vanish as more people see truth in the Bible.

What evidence of Satan's release from prison are we not seeing?

 

[Chriliman]

In this case, it wasn't all that tough at all -- not that Hovind or Gish would know the truth if it jumped out of a cake.



Hovind and Gish both claim to believe in a loving, righteous, and honest God... and they seem to be sorely lacking in that "intrinsic belief."

How about you? Does truth matter to you?

The closer you think you are to truth, the closer you are to destruction. Only when you have the truth in your heart do you realize the truth has destroyed your destruction. Every true Christian would know what this means and yes I value truth over everything.

This question may help you understand: Do you think the truth can destroy lies?

 

[TLK Valentine]

The closer you think you are to truth, the closer you are to destruction. Only when you have the truth in your heart do you realize the truth has destroyed your destruction. Every true Christian would know what this means and yes I value truth over everything.

Sounds like you think you're very close to the truth, indeed...

This question may help you understand: Do you think the truth can destroy lies?

Sadly, no -- some people will cling to lies no matter how much truth is staring them in the face -- Hovind, Gish, and their respective followers are prime examples of that.

 

[Loudmouth]

The closer you think you are to truth, the closer you are to destruction. Only when you have the truth in your heart do you realize the truth has destroyed your destruction. Every true Christian would know what this means and yes I value truth over everything.

This question may help you understand: Do you think the truth can destroy lies?

Do you think lies can make something true?

 

[Chriliman]

Do you think lies can make something true?

No, but I do think truth came before lies and therefor revealing lies can reveal truth.