Some questions for Christians who accept evolution

[Chriliman]

Sounds like you think you're very close to the truth, indeed...



Sadly, no -- some people will cling to lies no matter how much truth is staring them in the face -- Hovind, Gish, and their respective followers are prime examples of that.

If you don't think truth can destroy lies then you are clearly being deceived. No human being alive today knows the complete truth about why we're all here, so to say that that complete truth can't destroy all lies is a very ignorant thing to say. In fact the only way you could say that is if you knew the complete truth about why we're all here, do you know the complete truth? And if you did, there wouldn't be a single lie within you.

 

[Loudmouth]

No, but I do think truth came before lies and therefor revealing lies can reveal truth.

Then the truth is revealing the dishonesty of creationism.

 

[Not_By_Chance]

That's a perfect description of creationism. I can't think of a better tool to scare people away from Christianity than creationism.

Nonsense. Maybe the caricature of creation that gets banded about, but if you go direct to the scientists and listen to what they have to say, it makes perfect sense. The fact that you have called it creationism, rather than creation science reveals your hostility towards it. It makes far more sense than an idea that everything could come from nothing by undirected chance could ever do. If the general public had a fraction of the exposure to proper creation science, I think the percentage of the public that would accept it would be far higher. It's only because there is almost blanket coverage of evolution by the media that the theory does as well as it does and even then it's not as widely accepted as it ought to be if it really were the truth. Most people have never heard any of the arguments against the theory and when I have shown some of them to friends, they have become eager to find out more.

Incidentally, I was listening to a recorded sermon by someone who used to be the senior pastor at my local church but who is now a pastor and elder in one of the churches in Bath, UK and he expressed concern that the Bible is coming under attack both from without the church but also from within, by people adding false ideas and distorting the Gospel. And yes, he unashamedly believes the Bible to be inerrant like I do and in the historical account of creation as described in Genesis (he even said so in front of his congregation during the sermon I was listening to). Nothing has changed in that respect then as the Holy Scriptures have come under attack ever since Satan put doubt in Eve's mind about what God really said. In Jesus's time, it was the Pharisees and Sadducees (not sure about the spelling of the latter), who distorted God's word by either adding to it or subtracting from it. Today, it is under attack again from humanists and their religion of evolution, plus Muslim extremists like IS and yet people still refuse to recant their faith in the Lord Jesus.

 

[Not_By_Chance]

Evolution does a fine job of talking about the Beginning and the end. The extinctions and explosions. They know how it's all going to end.

LOL

 

[Chriliman]

Then the truth is revealing the dishonesty of creationism.

It might be revealing lies from certain "creationists". I believe God created the universe, have I ever lied to you?

Assuming God didn't create the universe, does not mean it's a fact that he didn't create the universe.

Did you learn anything from that other thread where I was able to show that it's actually more reasonable to "believe" than it is to "assume"?

 

[HitchSlap]

It might be revealing lies from certain "creationists". I believe God created the universe, have I ever lied to you?

You've given us no reason to care what you believe.

Assuming God didn't create the universe, does not mean it's a fact that he didn't create the universe.

Conversely, assuming god did create the universe doesn't mean it's a fact, either.

Did you learn anything from that other thread where I was able to show that it's actually more reasonable to "believe" than it is to "assume"?

No, I learned nothing from the other thread where you tried to show that it's actually more reasonable to believe than it is to assume.

"A-" for effort, though.

 

[Loudmouth]

Nonsense. Maybe the caricature of creation that gets banded about, but if you go direct to the scientists and listen to what they have to say, it makes perfect sense.

I have gone directly to the "scientists", and it fails spectacularly.

If you don't believe it, then present a single piece of info (not a long list of meandering topics) and I will show you how it fails spectacularly.

It makes far more sense than an idea that everything could come from nothing by undirected chance could ever do.

Evolution is directed by the environment. That is one spectacular failure on your part, so far.

If the general public had a fraction of the exposure to proper creation science, I think the percentage of the public that would accept it would be far higher. It's only because there is almost blanket coverage of evolution by the media that the theory does as well as it does and even then it's not as widely accepted as it ought to be if it really were the truth.

That has already been tried. Nearly 100% of geologists in the mid 1700's were from the West, and the vast majority believed in a young Earth and recent global flood. The evidence that they discovered changed all of their minds. By the early 1800's, a young Earth and recent global flood was no longer considered to be a viable theory. The evidence has only piled on since. The same for evolution.

For example, I have a thread started on ERV's that no creationist will touch.

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/lines-of-evidence-part-1-ervs.7867271/

Perhaps you could go there and show us how creationism is able to explain the evidence in a consistent and testable manner. Prove me wrong.

Incidentally, I was listening to a recorded sermon by someone who used to be the senior pastor at my local church but who is now a pastor and elder in one of the churches in Bath, UK and he expressed concern that the Bible is coming under attack both from without the church but also from within, by people adding false ideas and distorting the Gospel. And yes, he unashamedly believes the Bible to be inerrant like I do and in the historical account of creation as described in Genesis (he even said so in front of his congregation during the sermon I was listening to). Nothing has changed in that respect then as the Holy Scriptures have come under attack ever since Satan put doubt in Eve's mind about what God really said. In Jesus's time, it was the Pharisees and Sadducees (not sure about the spelling of the latter), who distorted God's word by either adding to it or subtracting from it. Today, it is under attack again from humanists and their religion of evolution, plus Muslim extremists like IS and yet people still refuse to recant their faith in the Lord Jesus.

If creationism is true, you should be able to come to the same conclusions by looking at just the scientific evidence.

 

[Papias]

We could go on like this ad infinitum and you still wouldn't accept what I say and I wouldn't accept what you are saying.

Sounds like you don't want to accept that your arguments have been shown to be false for points 1, 2, 4-7, and that you are relying on the view of humans to argue against the words of God. Unless you want to go a re-read my post.

For point #3:

Adam would have been perfect, but and it's a big but, God would have given him free will to choose to obey Him or not (God didn't make a robot, which would have had to have obeyed His every commands), so your accusation falls flat, ......

Did you bother to read my response to #3 earlier? If you did, you'd see that your explanation here again claims that Satan was created perfect, again showing where your human ideas lead.

(Note if you will, the proportion of positive reviews v. negative reviews).

Oh, Boy - now you go from implying that Satan is perfect to ........

http://www.amazon.com/Satanic-Bible...pebp=1435265258868&perid=17G2X0F02DYYY8DE3PSB
Note the proportion of positive to negative reviews!

So if you are claiming that books with mostly positive reviews must be good, true and right, then you've just advocated the Satanic Bible! Care to retract your claim?

Note that I'm not advocating the Satanic Bible - just showing how absurd it is for you to claim that books with mostly positive reviews are good books.

Another similar example is this book of quackery, with a whopping 84% positive reviews:
http://www.amazon.com/Homeopathy-Be...pebp=1435265474723&perid=00P0XPRXWX2GGFMTF935

So let's see - in addition to 1-7, it seems we also now have:

8. NBC's repeated claim that that symbolic scripture is "merely symbolic", a type that text can be "relegated" to, an inferior status.

9. NBC use of positive reviews on Amazon as a way to tell a book is true.

10. NBC's denial of creationist misrepresentations. I mentioned that they ignore the consensus of the Christian experts, and LM provided two examples. We can get more, but how about we start there?

In Christ-

Papias

 

[Loudmouth]

It might be revealing lies from certain "creationists".

Show me a creationist you think is honest, and I will show you a list of lies that he uses.

I believe God created the universe, have I ever lied to you?

I don't doubt that is what you believe. Problems occur when creationists start lying about facts and distorting the words of others.

Did you learn anything from that other thread where I was able to show that it's actually more reasonable to "believe" than it is to "assume"?

You demonstrated no such thing.

 

[Chriliman]

Conversely, assuming god did create the universe doesn't mean it's a fact, either.

Once again, I never assume anything anymore. I did before, when I was really questioning my faith. I assumed maybe God wasn't real and I decided to question everything. After much questioning, He showed me how real He is in a way I'll never forget. He also showed me that truth is all we've got, believing in that truth is the key to life.

Do you believe in truth? If so, you're on your way to finding it. I'll warn you, you may not like it when it hits you, but if you accept it you'll end up loving it more than anything else.

James 3:17
"But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere."

No, I learned nothing from the other thread where you tried to show that it's actually more reasonable to believe than it is to assume.

Do you reject things that makes sense a lot?

"A-" for effort, though.

I'll take that!

 

[HitchSlap]

Once again, I never assume anything anymore. I did before, when I was really questioning my faith. I assumed maybe God wasn't real and I decided to question everything. After much questioning, He showed me how real He is in a way I'll never forget. He also showed me that truth is all we've got, believing in that truth is the key to life.

Do you believe in truth? If so, you're on your way to finding it. I'll warn you, you may not like it when it hits you, but if you accept it you'll end up loving it more than anything else.

James 3:17
"But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere."



Do you reject things that makes sense a lot?



I'll take that!

If you build it, they will come.

 

[TLK Valentine]

If you don't think truth can destroy lies then you are clearly being deceived. No human being alive today knows the complete truth about why we're all here, so to say that that complete truth can't destroy all lies is a very ignorant thing to say. In fact the only way you could say that is if you knew the complete truth about why we're all here, do you know the complete truth? And if you did, there wouldn't be a single lie within you.

I guess I'm not as close to the truth as you think you are...

 

[sfs]

Nonsense. Maybe the caricature of creation that gets banded about, but if you go direct to the scientists and listen to what they have to say, it makes perfect sense. The fact that you have called it creationism, rather than creation science reveals your hostility towards it.

I've listened to what "creation scientists" have to say, for several decades now. Pretty much without exception it's a bad parody of science: scientific sounding arguments that misrepresent the actual science and carefully sidestep most of the real data. Rather than the people you've been listening to, perhaps you should listen to Todd Wood, who's as close to a real creation scientist as you're going to find, at least among young-earth creationists: "There is evidence for evolution, gobs and gobs of it. It is not just speculation or a faith choice or an assumption or a religion. It is a productive framework for lots of biological research, and it has amazing explanatory power. There is no conspiracy to hide the truth about the failure of evolution. There has really been no failure of evolution as a scientific theory. It works, and it works well. . . I say these things because they are true. I'm motivated this morning by reading yet another clueless, well-meaning person pompously declaring that evolution is a failure. People who say that are either unacquainted with the inner workings of science or unacquainted with the evidence for evolution."

By the way, you started a thread in which you said you'd never seen any evidence for evolution. A couple of us posted some evidence, and you never replied. Did you see those postings?

 

[pshun2404]

Show me a creationist you think is honest, and I will show you a list of lies that he uses.

Edward Weaver Jr.....

 

[sfs]

Show me a creationist you think is honest, and I will show you a list of lies that he uses.

I haven't seen Todd Wood to be dishonest.

 

[AV1611VET]

Show me a creationist you think is honest, and I will show you a list of lies that he uses.

Jesus Christ

 

[bhsmte]

It might be revealing lies from certain "creationists". I believe God created the universe, have I ever lied to you?

Assuming God didn't create the universe, does not mean it's a fact that he didn't create the universe.

Did you learn anything from that other thread where I was able to show that it's actually more reasonable to "believe" than it is to "assume"?

I learned a lot from the other thread, about you.

 

[Chriliman]

I learned a lot from the other thread, about you.

Do you know why you learned so much? It's because I'm honest and I choose not to assume I know the truth about everything. I ask honest questions and expect honest answers.

 

[bhsmte]

Do you know why you learned so much? It's because I'm honest and I choose not to assume I know the truth about everything. I ask honest questions and expect honest answers.

Like I said, I learned a lot about you. Doesn't sound like I learned, what you think I did though, but that's life.

 

[Chriliman]

Unfortunately, although I share your wish, I'm not holding my breath. I think people know in their hearts that God exists but are wilfully ignorant of Him. I think it says as much somewhere in the New Testament doesn't it?

Ephesians 4:18
"They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart."

I choose not to underestimate the power of God over evil. I believe God can soften even the hardest of hearts.