Some questions for Christians who accept evolution

[Not_By_Chance]

Ok, you know that Eden was an Eco system. Only it was / is an ecosystem that became domesticated. All the plants and animals spread from the Tigris Euphrates river valley to the entire world or bio sphere. There are experts with Phds in Botany at the Universities in Jerusalem that have written books about the domestication of the wild plants and animals in that middle east ecosystem that the Bible calls Eden. The Bible also talks about all the plants and animals from that part of the world. Adam and Eve we read about in the Bible and we read about them in Bishop Ushers book written in the 1600's. The Bishop had a lot of books available to him that are no longer in existence now. No reason to preserve them because the information is in the Bishops book. The originals for genealogies in the Bible were destroyed when the Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 ad. Paul in the bible said there was a lot of contentions surrounding them even 2000 years ago. He said: Titus 3:9 "But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless."

I have spent many hours to study the genealogies that you seem to know nothing about. They go from Adam to Abraham to David to Jesus. All in a span of exactly 4,000 years. Adam and Eve lived almost 6,000 years ago. Moses transcribed the story of Adam and Eve from clay tablets to the scrolls they were using in Egypt at the time. Moses lived 1350-1250 B.C. The Code of Ur-Nammu is the oldest known law code surviving today. It is from Mesopotamia and is written on tablets, in the Sumerian language c. 2100–2050 BC. Bishop Ussher, in the 17th century, calculated that the flood had taken place in 2349 BC. Of course we have clay tablets talking about Noah's flood that goes back before Moses. Then there is the Epic of Gilgamesh who was a real historical king of Uruk who seeks out his ancestor, Ut-napištim who was on Noah's ark to learn the secret of eternal life. Gilgamesh said "He who has seen everything ... even the secret knowledge before [Noah's] flood.

There of course is a lot more then just this. I happen to have a book here on my desk: "The Food Crisis in Prehistory. Overpopulation and the origins of agriculture" (Mark Nathan Cohen) Perhaps you have heard of the Cohen Modal Haplotype

Joshua, I too believe in a literal Adam and Eve, partly because I think that if it weren't so, the rest of the gospel message would not make sense (for instance, why would Jesus deliberately allow himself to be captured, tortured and put to death to save us from our sins if there was no original sin in the first place?). Also, God couldn't have made it more plain that He meant literal days in Genesis. But what I really wanted to mention was this: don't you think that the original Garden of Eden would have been totally destoyed when the great flood of Noah came along? Although I can't of course prove this, I rather suspect that God wanted the original garden destroyed to avoid any chance of idol worshipping. The same with the ark and other high-profile objects from the Biblical narratives (e.g., Jesus's cross). However, the fact that God put the rainbow in the sky and the fact that we have rivers named after the original rivers in the ancient world remind believers that these were real events. What do you think?

 

[Colter]

Joshua, I too believe in a literal Adam and Eve, partly because I think that if it weren't so, the rest of the gospel message would not make sense (for instance, why would Jesus deliberately allow himself to be captured, tortured and put to death to save us from our sins if there was no original sin in the first place?). Also, God couldn't have made it more plain that He meant literal days in Genesis. But what I really wanted to mention was this: don't you think that the original Garden of Eden would have been totally destoyed when the great flood of Noah came along? Although I can't of course prove this, I rather suspect that God wanted the original garden destroyed to avoid any chance of idol worshipping. The same with the ark and other high-profile objects from the Biblical narratives (e.g., Jesus's cross). However, the fact that God put the rainbow in the sky and the fact that we have rivers named after the original rivers in the ancient world remind believers that these were real events. What do you think?

Because Jesus spent his whole life on the cross of human experience, coming down from heavenly glory (as required by the Father to achieve unquestioned authority) was a sacrifice in a sense, but the cross was not a human sacrifice required for forgiveness, God was already forgiving as taught in the original gospel.

* Death is normal for man, the Father wanted the Son to experience what we all experience while maintaining faith. So by choice and within his own power the Son laid down his life and took it up again as an act of Love for us, not for the cause of sin.

We have a God who has been a man, he knows what it is like for us.

I also speculate, considering that the original gospel was rejected by the Jews who were to have received it and taught it to the world, the Father may have also used the cross as a transition from a Jewish to a gentile soil as the Pagan world already had a sacrifice concept in their theology. So the story of Jesus greatly appealed to them.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Joshua, I too believe in a literal Adam and Eve, partly because I think that if it weren't so, the rest of the gospel message would not make sense (for instance, why would Jesus deliberately allow himself to be captured, tortured and put to death to save us from our sins if there was no original sin in the first place?). Also, God couldn't have made it more plain that He meant literal days in Genesis. But what I really wanted to mention was this: don't you think that the original Garden of Eden would have been totally destoyed when the great flood of Noah came along? Although I can't of course prove this, I rather suspect that God wanted the original garden destroyed to avoid any chance of idol worshipping. The same with the ark and other high-profile objects from the Biblical narratives (e.g., Jesus's cross). However, the fact that God put the rainbow in the sky and the fact that we have rivers named after the original rivers in the ancient world remind believers that these were real events. What do you think?

I do not know for sure but I can offer a few thoughts on the subject.

In the Ark was the Rod of Aaron that budded, the Ten Commandments and the Manna. This represents man's rejection of God's provision for his food, God's leadership and God's law. In the Garden we are told that Eve ate the fruit from a forbidden tree. People say it was the apple tree that she ate. Botany tells us that apple trees come from a grafting of branches from one tree into another. So perhaps then like today people were tampering with the food God was providing for them.

We have not returned to Eden yet, so we do not know the perfect diet that God has for us. But Paul said we see dimly in a mirror. We know the Mediterranean diet is said to come from this part of the world. The Mediterranean diet emphasizes: Eating primarily plant-based foods, such as fruits and vegetables, whole grains, legumes and nuts. Replacing butter with healthy fats, such as olive oil. Using herbs and spices instead of salt to flavor foods.

I agree that the gospel message would not make sense. There are lots of different ways we know that Adam and Eve were real people. The main feature of the garden was the tree of life. Rev talks about the manna of Heaven and how overcomes shall eat of the tree of life in Paradise. So I can not imagine that Eden was destroyed if God's plan is to restore Eden or Paradise and restore mankind to God's plan and purpose.

 

[Not_By_Chance]

So I can not imagine that Eden was destroyed if God's plan is to restore Eden or Paradise and restore mankind to God's plan and purpose.

Hi Joshua
I guess we'll only find out when we die or if we are still alive when Jesus comes as He promised. I don't think we need to worry about whether Eden was destroyed or not though as God will restore every thing to be even better than before.

Rev 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.
Rev 21:2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.

Rev 22:1 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb
Rev 22:2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.
Rev 22:3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him.
Rev 22:4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads.
Rev 22:5 There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

 

[Jan Volkes]

Hi Joshua
I guess we'll only find out when we die or if we are still alive when Jesus comes as He promised..

You won't find out anything when you die because you will be dead.

We do most everything just like all the other mammals except some people think we don't die like them, they die but we don't,
how strange is that?

 

[justlookinla]

You won't find out anything when you die because you will be dead.

We do everything just like all the other mammals except some people think we don't die like them, they die but we don't,
how strange is that?

You're certainly welcome to your Darwinist faith based worldview.

 

[Jan Volkes]

You're certainly welcome to your Darwinist faith based worldview.

How come you think all the other mammals die but you don't? why are you so special?

 

[justlookinla]

How come you think all the other mammals die but you don't? why are you so special?

I'm special because humanity is the highest order of creation by God. It's the usual clash of worldviews between creationism and Darwinist evolution.

 

[joshua 1 9]

You won't find out anything when you die because you will be dead.

We do most everything just like all the other mammals except some people think we don't die like them, they die but we don't,
how strange is that?

"Dead" is an archaic term. It has no meaning, unless you would like to try to define what you mean by dead. Perhaps you mean decay or corruption. So that you can no longer be resuscitated or revived. The Bible says: "creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God."

Animals can be revived. Even we hear stories of a child praying and bringing a pet back to life.

 

[Colter]

How come you think all the other mammals die but you don't? why are you so special?

Because spirit born man has an immortal soul, those who choose to survive will be resurrected on the mansion worlds where they will continue to grow in understanding and service.

 

[Loudmouth]

Because spirit born man has an immortal soul, those who choose to survive will be resurrected on the mansion worlds where they will continue to grow in understanding and service.

By not believing in Zeus, are you choosing to not survive?

 

[Jan Volkes]

I'm special because humanity is the highest order of creation by God.

You're special, OK. does that include Muslims or are they not as special as you?

 

[justlookinla]

You're special, OK. does that include Muslims or are they not as special as you?

Has nothing to do with creation and evolution. Try to stay on topic instead of attempting to make every thread an anti-theist rant.

 

[Jan Volkes]

Has nothing to do with creation and evolution. Try to stay on topic instead of attempting to make every thread an anti-theist rant.

Every thread is an anti-theist rant unless it comes from a theist.
Simply saying there is no God is an anti-theist rant because all the theists can do is say, yes there is,
and we are no further forward than we ever were.

 

[Colter]

By not believing in Zeus, are you choosing to not survive?

No, I don't believe in Zeus. God looks into the heart and determines mans desires by his true motives.

 

[Jan Volkes]

"Dead" is an archaic term. It has no meaning, unless you would like to try to define what you mean by dead.

Sure, dead is when the brain is starved of oxygen and brain stem function is permanently lost, the body can be kept alive and used for spare parts but the person who once inhabited the body is no longer home and will not be needing it any more.

 

[Jan Volkes]

No, I don't believe in Zeus. God looks into the heart and determines mans desires by his true motives.

If that's true then God is going to very lonely indeed, all he will have around him will be billions and billions of babies.

 

[justlookinla]

Every thread is an anti-theist rant unless it comes from a theist.
Simply saying there is no God is an anti-theist rant because all the theists can do is say, yes there is,
and we are no further forward than we ever were.

There's a difference between an anti-theist position concerning creation and evolution and anti-theist apologetics.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Sure, dead is when the brain is starved of oxygen and brain stem function is permanently lost, the body can be kept alive and used for spare parts but the person who once inhabited the body is no longer home and will not be needing it any more.

If you do a study on emergency room medicine you will find that when you cut the oxygen off to the brain the cells continue to make the enzymes that converts the oxygen. So when you try to reintroduce oxygen to the cells that is when they are destroyed. One solution is to put the body into hypothermia, like they do when they perform surgery. This will extend the length of time (window of opportunity) to reintroduce oxygen to the brain. So death actually results when you try to reintroduce oxygen, not because the brain is starved of oxygen. This is why you can put body parts, even a heart on ice and transport it. So they are able to get the heart to pump again.

 

[bhsmte]

If you do a study on emergency room medicine you will find that when you cut the oxygen off to the brain the cells continue to make the enzymes that converts the oxygen. So when you try to reintroduce oxygen to the cells that is when they are destroyed. One solution is to put the body into hypothermia, like they do when they perform surgery. This will extend the length of time (window of opportunity) to reintroduce oxygen to the brain. So death actually results when you try to reintroduce oxygen, not because the brain is starved of oxygen. This is why you can put body parts, even a heart on ice and transport it. So they are able to get the heart to pump again.

What???

Do you know how many people are revived when their heart stops and their brain has been somewhat deprived of oxygen and then the heart is restarted and oxygen reintroduced to the cells and they survive?