Some Predictions For The Next Year

[98cwitr]

This is the same Bible that depicted the early Apostles as sharing everything among them and Jesus instructing people to "sell all your possessions and follow Me".

Yes, and voluntarily so. Never did they get Rome involved.

Nobody should have to work simply to survive

Yes, for God decreed it to be so in Genesis. Someone has to produce, so to something produced by someone else for "free" is akin to making that person your slave. They should be compensated, by you, because you have now taken possession of what they made with their hands.

A need is defined here as 'basic survival necessities' like food, water, and shelter

Takes labor to make those things unless you live near a drinkable spring.

No.

If you are lacking food, water, and/or shelter in the land of plenty, then it's not society's fault. Whatever put a person in such a position needs to be addressed, and by people who adhere to truth and will not make excuses that absolve a person of person responsibility.

No

If every life is equal, then every worker is worth their wages.

Again: we can thank unions for that.

Very well. Thank you, unions, for your services. They are no longer necessary.

It's not "coveting" to point out basic facts about people at the top hoarding their wealth while 99% of us here at the bottom starve.p

It most certainly is. After all, is not the billionaire your neighbor too? If we love them, we do not wish to see them stripped of their wealth, because we don't want to see ourselves stripped of what we have either. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. If we love the poor, we use our own resources to help, not unwilling to part what we have while advocating for the state to take from our neighbor.

If the state's job is to protect rights, and you rightly pointed out that our rights include "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness", then the state is fulfilling its charge by ensuring that its citizens don't starve or remain homeless.

Some people are voluntarily homeless. They want to live in a tent outside because that's their idea of freedom. Some are mentally ill and simply cannot take care of themselves, but loath an institution where they feel trapped. Shouldn't people be free enough to be nomadic if they wish, as long as their choices do not infringe on the rights of others?

Thank you, and I mean that sincerely. College was not an easy road for me, and it taught me that there are a lot of people far better and smarter than I am.

Me too. I flunked out first semester, spent 3 quarters in a trade school, then finally got into another 4 year where I did really well. I had my priorities all jacked up as a kid, and it took the world's discipline, but ultimately God's Providence, to get me where I need to be. I am glad you made it out successfully. We are tested in our trials.

But that doesn't mean that everyone shouldn't enjoy the same things that I had in order to succeed. Because I had help that ensured my success in college, I want to make sure that everyone has the same help so that they, too can succeed at college.
Ringo

Remember the parable of the wedding feast? All are invited, but few come.

 

[Ringo84]

Yes, and voluntarily so. Never did they get Rome involved.

Rome was a conquering power, which is probably why they didn't involve it.

Yes, for God decreed it to be so in Genesis. Someone has to produce, so to something produced by someone else for "free" is akin to making that person your slave. They should be compensated, by you, because you have now taken possession of what they made with their hands.

The lesson about sharing must have been a tough one for you in kindergarten.

Takes labor to make those things unless you live near a drinkable spring.

Yeah....and?

If you are lacking food, water, and/or shelter in the land of plenty, then it's not society's fault. Whatever put a person in such a position needs to be addressed, and by people who adhere to truth and will not make excuses that absolve a person of person responsibility.

It's society's fault if we see the poor people suffering from hunger, thirst, and homelessness and choose not to do anything other than lecture patronizingly about "responsibility".

If every life is equal, then every worker is worth their wages.

Exactly, which is why they should be paid a livable wage.

Very well. Thank you, unions, for your services. They are no longer necessary.

As long as workers are being exploited, they are necessary. Workers are still being exploited when they're not paid a livable wage.

Some people are voluntarily homeless. They want to live in a tent outside because that's their idea of freedom. Some are mentally ill and simply cannot take care of themselves, but loath an institution where they feel trapped. Shouldn't people be free enough to be nomadic if they wish, as long as their choices do not infringe on the rights of others?

An easy solution is to provide housing for everyone and give it to those who want it. Those who don't can live as they choose.

It most certainly is.

No, despite your best efforts to make it about envy, my politics have nothing to do with envy. I don't envy the Bezos of the world at all; I pity them, because for all of that unimaginable wealth, I imagine that their lives are empty. It's lonely at the top, and all of that fabulous wealth doesn't make you a happy person, but just more selfish and clutching, determined to keep it at any cost.

I would invite billionaires to show the same sort of kindness toward their neighbor as you recommend I show to billionaires. A big way they can do that is to pay the workers that have helped them to become wealthy (assuming they didn't just inherit their wealth and sit on it to become wealthier) a livable wage.

The Bible tells us that the rich "have received their earthly rewards" and that gold and silver corrode. But pooling our resources with the recognition that we are in this together is a good way to leave a positive mark on the world.

Ringo

 

[mark46]

So, the employer pays $8 an hour and makes his profit.

Society recognizes that the money needed for an individual is $15 per hour, so the gfovernment comes up with difference through various programs/. The employee now essentially make $15 per hour for working.

The "real" cost of labor to society was $15 per hour.

In effect, the employer was subsidized $7 per hour.
=========
It is said that the employer and employee agreed to the $8 deal, so it fair. I disagree.

Raise the minimum wage to $11 an hour and adjust for inflation each year. The Democratic Sanders slogan of a $15 minimum wage is just that. They don't propose a 2021 rate of $15; that is four years off. Let 2024 or 2025 take care of itself. If the right number of 2021 is $11M, pass it, and adjust for inflation.

 

[Ringo84]

This was too long a quote to fit in my signature line, unfortunately. It's so good that I decided to just post the entire thing because it more or less sums up how I feel about this issue:

"Capitalism wastes human life above all. It spends billions of dollars to warehouse people in overcrowded prisons. It provides sub-par education to millions of poor students, sending a message that their lives will amount to nothing. Capitalism negates the most important incentive: the incentive to feed, clothe and house everyone, and to provide all with meaningful work.

Are people homeless in America because there is a shortage of homes? And if that is the case, is there a shortage of homes because we don't have the concrete, the wood, and the steel to produce them? Or perhaps we don't have the workers who can build them? The labor and materials are there, but there is no incentive to build low-cost housing for the homeless, simply because it is not profitable to do so."
-- Paul D'Amato, The Meaning of Marxism
Ringo

 

[mark46]

Capitalism doesn't warehouse people in prisons. You are just using the word as code. You might start with listing countries by category. What are your categories in addition to capitalist? Does Canada put folks in overcrowded prisons. Or is the US the only capitalist country?

Our criminal justice system need major improvement, but the reason is NOT capitalism.

Some reasons
prohibition (alcohol and then drugs)
racism
having the purpose as punishment instead of rehabilitation

This was too long a quote to fit in my signature line, unfortunately. It's so good that I decided to just post the entire thing because it more or less sums up how I feel about this issue:

"Capitalism wastes human life above all. It spends billions of dollars to warehouse people in overcrowded prisons. It provides sub-par education to millions of poor students, sending a message that their lives will amount to nothing. Capitalism negates the most important incentive: the incentive to feed, clothe and house everyone, and to provide all with meaningful work.

Are people homeless in America because there is a shortage of homes? And if that is the case, is there a shortage of homes because we don't have the concrete, the wood, and the steel to produce them? Or perhaps we don't have the workers who can build them? The labor and materials are there, but there is no incentive to build low-cost housing for the homeless, simply because it is not profitable to do so."
-- Paul D'Amato, The Meaning of Marxism
Ringo

 

[Ringo84]

Capitalism doesn't warehouse people in prisons. You are just using the word as code. You might start with listing countries by category. What are your categories in addition to capitalist? Does Canada put folks in overcrowded prisons. Or is the US the only capitalist country?

Our criminal justice system need major improvement, but the reason is NOT capitalism.

Some reasons
prohibition (alcohol and then drugs)
racism
having the purpose as punishment instead of rehabilitation

I didn't write the quote, but what I'm pretty D'Amato's point was discriminatory laws specifically targeting minorities that benefit the prison-industrial complex.
Ringo

 

[mark46]

I didn't write the quote, but what I'm pretty D'Amato's point was discriminatory laws specifically targeting minorities that benefit the prison-industrial complex.
Ringo

I'm asking you.

1) Do you think that capitalist countries mean that the country put folks in overcrowded countries?
2) Which are the capitalist countries?
3) What are the alternative categories?

The US is a country with regulated capitalism (lots and lots of regulation). The same is true of Canada, Australia, the UK and the rest of Europe.

 

[Ringo84]

I'm asking you.

1) Do you think that capitalist countries mean that the country put folks in overcrowded countries?
2) Which are the capitalist countries?
3) What are the alternative categories?

The US is a country with regulated capitalism (lots and lots of regulation). The same is true of Canada, Australia, the UK and the rest of Europe.

"Regulated". For the most part, capitalism has been allowed to run pretty rampant through this country in the name of our holy job creators.

Not sure what point you're trying to make? Yes, overcrowded prisons probably exist in other parts of the world too, but for-profit prisons are (as far as I know) a uniquely American tradition.
Ringo

 

[mark46]

"Regulated". For the most part, capitalism has been allowed to run pretty rampant through this country in the name of our holy job creators.

Not sure what point you're trying to make? Yes, overcrowded prisons probably exist in other parts of the world too, but for-profit prisons are (as far as I know) a uniquely American tradition.
Ringo

Ok, our prison system is one of the worst (compared to the normal compares). The reasons are

1) The goals of our prison system are from the 19th century. In Europe, the purpose is rehabilitation not punishment.

2) We have systemic racism throughout our criminal justice system, from police, to sentences, to treatment in prison, to treatment after prison. Just imagine all of America seeing a black policeman having his knee on a white man, and the situation ensuing as it did in MN.

3) Much of our sentencing makes little sense. Drug laws and prosecution are the most obvious, little different from prohibition.

 

[Ringo84]

100% agreed on all points.
Ringo

 

[Petros2015]

Are you suggesting that we outlaw machines?

No - we just give every worker a machine, and let them send it to work.