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Some of us seem to be overlooking a very important fact

TheFathersDaughter

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Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Deuteronomy 12:8 Ye shall not do after all the things that we do here this day, every man whatsoever is right in his own eyes.

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

Proverbs 21:2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts.​

For once, I agree. Get your umbrella's, the sky should start falling any second.

HOWEVER, the heart and mind is also where God has the most influence if you allow Him, hence Proverbs 21:2.
 
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savedandhappy1

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THE AUTHORITY OF THE WORD
by Ray C. Stedman

That is the first fact we must hold in mind as we come to this subject of the authority of the Word. To put it another way, the authority of the Bible rests squarely upon the authority of Jesus Christ himself. To be a Christian at all means that we have fully accepted the authority of Jesus. If we have not, we are not Christians -- except in name only. It is an utter inconsistency to say that we accept what the Bible says about Christ and reject what he says about Scripture. We cannot say of Jesus that he is the image of the invisible God, the bodily expression of the fullness of God, that in him are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge, and that he is before all things and by him all things hold together -- but he is quite wrong about Adam and Noah and Jonah and the rest of the Old Testament. You see the utter inconsistency of that position? We cannot call him Lord, and say he has the right to choose our mates, and to pick our line of work, and to govern our life in all its attitudes and ways -- even to trust our eternal destiny into his hands -- but we cannot believe him when he speaks of the creation of man, or the sanctity of marriage, or the sinfulness of certain sexual acts. We are utterly inconsistent if we do.

http://www.raystedman.org/misc/authword.html

Just posted this part of the article because of copywrite laws. Much more is stated in the article.

Here is another article that speaks of the Authority of God and the Bible which we are told is God breathed.

http://absg.adventist.org/2007/2Q/ER/PDFs/ERQ207_02.pdf

Significantly, the longest chapter in the Bible—Psalm 119 —is devoted to praising God for His Word and His laws. Its writer exults, "Oh, how I love your law! It is my meditation all the day" (verse 97). Each of us can develop this same love and reverence for God's Word.
The world is falling asleep spiritually, but we can choose to stay awake and alert and aware of trends. As Paul says, "let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober" (1 Thessalonians 5:6). To "watch" means to be spiritually alert and attentive, like a sentry or watchman.
Paul tells us to "put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil" (Ephesians 6:11). Then Paul lists the pieces of God's armor, including "the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God" (verses 14-18). God's Word is our chief weapon in our spiritual warfare against the forces of evil.
God gave us His Word to serve as the foundation for all knowledge, understanding and wisdom. Those who are wise will replace aversion to study with an earnest desire to study. Jesus said that "blessed are those who hear [read and understand] the word of God and keep it!" (Luke 11:28).

http://www.gnmagazine.org/issues/gn27/disbeliefbible.htm

So when Paul speaks of the armour of God and the many pieces of this armour do we believe him? When he says in Eph. 6:14-18 that we should put on the sword of the Spirit do we understand this to be the Word of God? Do we believe that the Word is the main weapon we use against the forces of evil? Didn't Jesus use the Word when the devil was tempting Him in the Wilderness?

So if we believe these parts of Paul's teachings how can we disbelieve his other writings? Paul speaks of salvation in Romans 10 and how salvation and faith come from the word of God.

Romans 10:8-11
8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Romans 10:17
17So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The Bible is called the living word for a reason, it still covers all we need to know today just like back then. I read post that speaks about cars and computers, and how since these aren't mentioned in the Bible that is proof it some how it can't be totally able to cover anything that could come up today. I have to ask why doesn't it?

Please someone explain what we could do with either one of those things that the scriptures don't cover.

1. We aren't to be angry unto sin, so road rage is covered.
2. We aren't to do anything to excess, so speeding is covered.
3. We aren't to let the lust of the flesh rule us, so that would cover porn on computers and people having pre-marital sex in the back seat of a car.

I could keep going but I think my point is clear. So again I would like to know what is not covered in the scriptures that we need to know.

I read where the two scriptures that Jesus gave about loving God and loving our neighbors is the only law we need to live by. Those two commandments include all the other commandments, frankly. If you love God you won't worship anyother thing. If you love your neighbor you won't murder them, steal from them or lie to them, etc.

If we can't believe the whole word of God, then our belief about the scriptures that tell us what we must do to be saved have just as big a risk to being wrong as anyother part. So our promise of forgiveness and salvation are no longer a sure thing, and we won't know until we die if we got it right. In fact, our belief in God as the Creator and all His other attributes may not be correct either. Boy would this type of belief have me scared everyday, and since God is not the author of fear I just can't go that way.

Well, since I believe that God is not the author of fear because the Bible says so..............................well here we go again can I believe that scripture? Who wrote that one down because the Holy Spirit lead him too?
 
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TheFathersDaughter

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THE AUTHORITY OF THE WORD
by Ray C. Stedman

That is the first fact we must hold in mind as we come to this subject of the authority of the Word. To put it another way, the authority of the Bible rests squarely upon the authority of Jesus Christ himself. To be a Christian at all means that we have fully accepted the authority of Jesus. If we have not, we are not Christians -- except in name only. It is an utter inconsistency to say that we accept what the Bible says about Christ and reject what he says about Scripture. We cannot say of Jesus that he is the image of the invisible God, the bodily expression of the fullness of God, that in him are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge, and that he is before all things and by him all things hold together -- but he is quite wrong about Adam and Noah and Jonah and the rest of the Old Testament. You see the utter inconsistency of that position? We cannot call him Lord, and say he has the right to choose our mates, and to pick our line of work, and to govern our life in all its attitudes and ways -- even to trust our eternal destiny into his hands -- but we cannot believe him when he speaks of the creation of man, or the sanctity of marriage, or the sinfulness of certain sexual acts. We are utterly inconsistent if we do.

http://www.raystedman.org/misc/authword.html

Just posted this part of the article because of copywrite laws. Much more is stated in the article.

Here is another article that speaks of the Authority of God and the Bible which we are told is God breathed.

http://absg.adventist.org/2007/2Q/ER/PDFs/ERQ207_02.pdf

Significantly, the longest chapter in the Bible—Psalm 119 —is devoted to praising God for His Word and His laws. Its writer exults, "Oh, how I love your law! It is my meditation all the day" (verse 97). Each of us can develop this same love and reverence for God's Word.
The world is falling asleep spiritually, but we can choose to stay awake and alert and aware of trends. As Paul says, "let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober" (1 Thessalonians 5:6). To "watch" means to be spiritually alert and attentive, like a sentry or watchman.
Paul tells us to "put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil" (Ephesians 6:11). Then Paul lists the pieces of God's armor, including "the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God" (verses 14-18). God's Word is our chief weapon in our spiritual warfare against the forces of evil.
God gave us His Word to serve as the foundation for all knowledge, understanding and wisdom. Those who are wise will replace aversion to study with an earnest desire to study. Jesus said that "blessed are those who hear [read and understand] the word of God and keep it!" (Luke 11:28).

http://www.gnmagazine.org/issues/gn27/disbeliefbible.htm

So when Paul speaks of the armour of God and the many pieces of this armour do we believe him? When he says in Eph. 6:14-18 that we should put on the sword of the Spirit do we understand this to be the Word of God? Do we believe that the Word is the main weapon we use against the forces of evil? Didn't Jesus use the Word when the devil was tempting Him in the Wilderness?

So if we believe these parts of Paul's teachings how can we disbelieve his other writings? Paul speaks of salvation in Romans 10 and how salvation and faith come from the word of God.

Romans 10:8-11
8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Romans 10:17
17So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The Bible is called the living word for a reason, it still covers all we need to know today just like back then. I read post that speaks about cars and computers, and how since these aren't mentioned in the Bible that is proof it some how it can't be totally able to cover anything that could come up today. I have to ask why doesn't it?

Please someone explain what we could do with either one of those things that the scriptures don't cover.

1. We aren't to be angry unto sin, so road rage is covered.
2. We aren't to do anything to excess, so speeding is covered.
3. We aren't to let the lust of the flesh rule us, so that would cover porn on computers and people having pre-marital sex in the back seat of a car.

I could keep going but I think my point is clear. So again I would like to know what is not covered in the scriptures that we need to know.

I read where the two scriptures that Jesus gave about loving God and loving our neighbors is the only law we need to live by. Those two commandments include all the other commandments, frankly. If you love God you won't worship anyother thing. If you love your neighbor you won't murder them, steal from them or lie to them, etc.

If we can't believe the whole word of God, then our belief about the scriptures that tell us what we must do to be saved have just as big a risk to being wrong as anyother part. So our promise of forgiveness and salvation are no longer a sure thing, and we won't know until we die if we got it right. In fact, our belief in God as the Creator and all His other attributes may not be correct either. Boy would this type of belief have me scared everyday, and since God is not the author of fear I just can't go that way.

Well, since I believe that God is not the author of fear because the Bible says so..............................well here we go again can I believe that scripture? Who wrote that one down because the Holy Spirit lead him too?

All excellent points.

Except Christ never mentioned homosexuality, again.
 
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EnemyPartyII

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All excellent points.

Except Christ never mentioned homosexuality, again.
They hate it when you go bringing up facts like this. Watch this space for the coming explanation that Paul and Moses' words are really disseminated directly from Christ
 
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EnemyPartyII

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Go over to GA (General apologetics) and see how far you get with 'rational' and 'Bible' in the same sentence.
Not to say there aren't valid reasons. But with your logic, you're setting yourself up to throw out much of what the Bible teaches simply because you don't think it applies.
this part... why should we follow it if logic doesn't apply?
 
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EnemyPartyII

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Answer the previous question please. How do you determine what does or does not apply? What are some examples of what does not apply?

I'd also like to see you address the really long post I had on here.
Logic and reason and a sense of natural justice

OT bits I don't think apply in modern society?

stoning rape victims
forcing rape victims to marry their attackers
proscribing homosexuality
executing disobedient children
showing mouldy curtains to priests
using bronze snakes as a cure for snakebite

shall i continue?
 
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B

BigBadWlf

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Logic and reason and a sense of natural justice

OT bits I don't think apply in modern society?

stoning rape victims
forcing rape victims to marry their attackers
proscribing homosexuality
executing disobedient children
showing mouldy curtains to priests
using bronze snakes as a cure for snakebite

shall i continue?
Don't forget slavery and racism :thumbsup:
 
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Time4AChange

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Thank the Lord because His truth has been told once again. That's really and truly all we can do, and that's really and truly all that God requires of us. To speak the truth, and to live the truth. To accept Him not only with our mouths, but with our hearts...and to show that compassion for the souls of others. People will decide whether they accept it or not, that's out of our control. Either way, God's word will not return to Him void, so we should be encouraged by that.

To everyone who holds on to His word with an honest heart, I thank you guys. It really is such an encouragement to see some of the posts made in here, and despite what some are trying to say, there's no hatred in what we're doing. Love you all. God bless.
 
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Der Alte

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[SIZE=-1]Gauntlet time again... find me any words of Jesus that condemn homosexuality and I'll stop this instant.[/SIZE]

Your "gauntlet" is organic fertilizer, it denies the power and authority of Jesus to give that authority, etc. to his disciples. I will believe in Jesus not the words of someone trying to destroy the Word of God, who has repeatedly advanced meaningless objections you can't back up, e.g. unicorn, satyr, 4 legged birds, and PI=3 whatever that is supposed to mean.
 
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Der Alte

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[SIZE=-1]Logic and reason and a sense of natural justice

OT bits I don't think apply in modern society?

stoning rape victims [SIZE=+1][Context?][/SIZE]
forcing rape victims to marry their attackers [SIZE=+1][Context?][/SIZE]
proscribing homosexuality [SIZE=+1][Of course! Self serving reinterpretation!][/SIZE]
executing disobedient children [SIZE=+1][Context and conditions?][/SIZE]
showing mouldy curtains to priests [SIZE=+1][What? Verse, if it exists! Context?][/SIZE]
using bronze snakes as a cure for snakebite [SIZE=+1][Context? The bronze serpent had NO power?][/SIZE]

shall i continue?[/SIZE]

Please do, with this rubbish you got nothing so far.
 
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savedandhappy1

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All excellent points.

Except Christ never mentioned homosexuality, again.

He spoke through them, and so yes He did speak about it.

He spoke of marriage being between a man and a woman, so yes He did speak about it.

If you think it is excellent points then your next sentence doesn't make any sense. It talks about authority.......................................

nevermind if you read it you know what it says, and yet you make the second comment.:scratch:
 
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savedandhappy1

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Thank the Lord because His truth has been told once again. That's really and truly all we can do, and that's really and truly all that God requires of us. To speak the truth, and to live the truth. To accept Him not only with our mouths, but with our hearts...and to show that compassion for the souls of others. People will decide whether they accept it or not, that's out of our control. Either way, God's word will not return to Him void, so we should be encouraged by that.

To everyone who holds on to His word with an honest heart, I thank you guys. It really is such an encouragement to see some of the posts made in here, and despite what some are trying to say, there's no hatred in what we're doing. Love you all. God bless.


God Bless you too, Time4AChange,:hug: . May you continue to stand on His word.:hug:
 
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EnemyPartyII

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Please do, with this rubbish you got nothing so far.
Would you like to say a little more than "context"?

It is, indeed, my contention that such laws were totally built on context... and since OUR context is DIFFERENT to the context of the ancient Israelites, all such laws deserve re-examination.

Do you really want me to find the specific verses, or are you just being obtuse? I mean, I'll do it if you want, but I'm sure you already know te specific verses to which I refer.
using bronze snakes as a cure for snakebite [SIZE=+1][Context? The bronze serpent had NO power?][/SIZE]
Again, I have a simple question to bypass all the minutiae and semantics... If you get bitten by a deadly snake, would you go for the bronze serpent, or for modern anti-venom?
 
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