Some honest answers please...

[lesliedellow]

What about you evolutionists? What if creationism was proven? Would you loose your faith? Would it change the way you see God?

However unlikely it may be, if creationism were proven true, that would be fine by me. What really drives me up the wall about creationists is the obscurantism and pseudo scientific claims to be heard from them.

 

[AV1611VET]

What really drives me up the wall about creationists is the obscurantism and pseudo scientific claims to be heard from them.

You mean their faith?

 

[lesliedellow]

You mean their faith?

I mean obscurantism and pseudo scientific twaddle. For example:

If abiogenesis kick-started animal life on this planet, and photosynthesis kick-started plant life on this planet; then why is photosynthesis still going on and abiogenesis isn't?

Maybe you recognise that masterpiece.

 

[AV1611VET]

I mean obscurantism and pseudo scientific twaddle. For example:

If abiogenesis kick-started animal life on this planet, and photosynthesis kick-started plant life on this planet; then why is photosynthesis still going on and abiogenesis isn't?

Maybe you recognise that masterpiece.

I do.

And I think it's an excellent question.

If my science is in error -- correct me.

Anyone can ridicule an honest question.

Answering it takes work.

And that's not something Internet scientists are here to do, is it?

 

[lesliedellow]

If my science is in error -- correct me.

a.) Abiogenesis concerns the origin of life. And that very earliest life would have consisted of neither animal nor plant life, but of single cell organisms.
b.) Photosynthesis has got nothing whatsoever to do with the origin of life, but with a plants ability to manufacture carbo hydrates from water and the carbon dioxide it breaths in through its leaves. It then breaths out oxygen, which we can make use of.

How old was I when I learnt that in school? Thirteen maybe.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Acquired new knowledge?

Is that why you gave up all this:

Psalm 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation;

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

... to become an atheist?

What is it that theistic evolutionists are clinging to that you gave up?

What new knowledge can you impart to theistic evolutionists to prompt them to follow your example?

If it's apparent that the facts of the universe don't support the story you're quoting here, then it's more of a realisation that there was nothing to give up in the first place. It isn't like those who lose their faith are changing faiths from one belief to another, the worldview they were indoctrinated into didn't match the reality they now understand to be true.

Other rationale might include that were a God real and cared about a personal relationship with them, then that God would care about ensuring they kept their faith & not fill the universe and reality with such effective counterfacts to the narrative.

Or if there is a reason to have all this counter evidence, then perhaps a damascus road experience would've been the fix for everyone. Why is it good enough for Saul, but not everyone else?

 

[AV1611VET]

If it's apparent that the facts of the universe don't support the story you're quoting here, then it's more of a realisation that there was nothing to give up in the first place.

Perhaps they weren't saved to begin with?

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Perhaps they weren't saved to begin with?

.....or perhaps there was nothing to be saved from to begin with...

 

[AV1611VET]

.....or perhaps there was nothing to be saved from to begin with...

Then why do they say differently?

Why do they claim they got saved, then later gave it up?

 

[HitchSlap]

Perhaps they weren't saved to begin with?

Perhaps that's true for all of us.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Then why do they say differently?

Why do they claim they got saved, then later gave it up?

Because at the time it was their honest belief. There's a range of reasons why but psychology 101 explains plenty of them well. Wanting to be part of the 'in' group, indoctrination, being exposed to challenges to their previously unchallenged beliefs, exploring the truth of their worldview, etc.

 

[AV1611VET]

Perhaps that's true for all of us.

Do all of us claim we deconverted when science came into our lives?

 

[AV1611VET]

Because at the time it was their honest belief.

Then why do they say they deconverted, if they came to realize they weren't converted in the first place?

 

[lesliedellow]

Do all of us claim we deconverted when science came into our lives?

No, but some YECs do, when they find themselves in college, and discover that their pastors have been telling something less than the truth for years. Always assuming those pastors knew it in the first place.

 

[HitchSlap]

Do all of us claim we deconverted when science came into our lives?

Did you ask science to come into your life?

 

[Speedwell]

Do all of us claim we deconverted when science came into our lives?

No, most of us didn't need to. Only creationists face that risk.

 

[AV1611VET]

No, but some YECs do, when they find themselves in college, and discover that their pastors have been telling something less than the truth for years. Always assuming those pastors knew it in the first place.

Thanks to those pastors though, they got saved and on their way to Heaven ... right?

Not to mention ...

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Tell me, leslie, if you have the courage to:

Which of these two types of pastors here are you referring to?

This kind?

Jeremiah 23:1 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.
Jeremiah 23:2 Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.
Jeremiah 23:3 And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.

Or this kind?

Jeremiah 23:4 And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the LORD.

And while you won't answer that ... see if you'll not answer this also:

What did God use to gather the remnant of His flock with (verse 3)? science?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Then why do they say differently?

Why do they claim they got saved, then later gave it up?

Because they have a fear of death. A fear of death is a natural reaction. Sadly some people find false means to deal with it. For example those claiming to be "saved". They are still afraid of death, but at least it is no longer overpowering for them.

 

[AV1611VET]

Because they have a fear of death.

Oh, please ... who do you think you're talking to, LOL?

I've never once heard a person that honest in my life.

Usually I get:

"I deconverted because I had questions my pastor couldn't answer, and he told me to just accept it and keep my mouth shut."

"I deconverted because I read the Bible all the way through."

"I deconverted because the Bible says one thing, and reality says another."

It's easy to honestly tell me why others deconverted isn't it?

It's a different story to honestly tell me why you deconverted though ... right?

 

[HitchSlap]

Oh, please ... who do you think you're talking to, LOL?

I've never once heard a person that honest in my life.

Usually I get:

"I deconverted because I had questions my pastor couldn't answer, and he told me to just accept it and keep my mouth shut."

"I deconverted because I read the Bible all the way through."

"I deconverted because the Bible says one thing, and reality says another."

It's easy to honestly tell me why others deconverted isn't it?

It's a different story to honestly tell me why you deconverted though ... right?

Lol