Some claim that faith makes obedience unnecessary. If you believe this please reply.

[Epecho]

1 John 3:23,24 - God commands us to believe in Jesus; we must keep His commands to abide in Him. If we recognize the importance of faith, we must recognize the importance of obedience, since faith itself is a command from God that we must obey.

John 6:28,29 - People asked what they must do to work the works of God [cf. 1 Cor. 15:58; 16:10]. Jesus said the work for them to do is to believe. [Acts 16:30f]

Faith is essential to salvation. But faith is a command - a work - something required in obedience to God. Therefore, obedience is essential to salvation, for here is another act of obedience that is required for salvation. If someone claims that works of obedience are not necessary, he is (unintentionally) saying that faith is not necessary. If he then says faith is necessary, he contradicts himself.

 

[freebiblelessons]

Faith without works...is dead. :o

 

[mnphysicist]

Prooftexting can turn circular fast... on the other hand, within the whole faith works deal, nuance is key.

Ie, if one says works are necessary for salvation, then one needs a atonement models other than the 7 major ones called out in the scriptures as either A. Jesus isn't necessary, or B. his sacrifice was not enough. Throughout history, short of a few aberations, none have been able to pull a comprehensive theology out of the scriptures to make this possible. The closest option might be the path of Pelagius, his logic from the scriptures at least makes some sense... alas it doesnt take much human observation to find that the denial of original sin seems quite a bit out there.

The danger with the 100% faith no works model is the harsh words of Jesus in Matthew 25 as well as the faith+no works = dead stuff in James.

Historically the approach to the faith / works things has been that man is powerless to do works on his own as reference in Phillipians.... ie, man cannot believe, much less obey unless granted by God. This really sticks in the craw of the hyper freewill folks. The bit about working out ones salvation really sticks in the craw of the canned answer folks too... so there are tons of seemingly logical workarounds to deal with this.

Alas, workarounds all fall short in one way or another short of their respective fan clubs. You get the 5 pts of Calvin on one hand, full blown antinominaism on the other, where its just fine to blow on past Jesus with a cardboard sign at the stoplight as he might be making $50K/year and/or buying beer with your money.

My personal view within todays "calling out sin obsessed" culture is to lean towards antinomianism, and let the Holy Spirit address the heart for works to come forth... albeit encouragement to help matters along is a very good thing. I feel this is the most conservative, (safest, not theo or polly) view one can have without running into the dangers of throwing the whole of the scriptures out the window.

 

[hedrick]

I share mnphysicist's concern that doctrinal solutions to this problem tend to ignore half the evidence. As far as I can see, the most accurate summary of both Jesus and Paul is justification by faith and judgement by works, but with a strong overlay of forgiveness.

Jesus has lots of teaching (mostly parables) about judgement. I can't recall any sign of someone surviving judgement on the basis of faith. Faith (or in Jesus' case love) is really important as a motivation, and as the foundation for our Christian life, but even Paul (if you read all the letters and not just Romans) expects God to look at what we actually do.

It's not easy to reconcile justification by faith with judgement by work. The major theological formulas all seem to miss critical parts. Perhaps it's one of those things we're going to have to live with.

I also share his concern with the current legalism. Zero-tolerance policies and accountability have become for quite a while magic answers. I wouldn't mind a dose of antinomianism in a number of places. But not everywhere. There are places where people aren't be held accountable and they should be.

 

[slickvolt]

Faith is essential to salvation. But faith is a command - a work - something required in obedience to God. Therefore, obedience is essential to salvation, for here is another act of obedience that is required for salvation. If someone claims that works of obedience are not necessary, he is (unintentionally) saying that faith is not necessary. If he then says faith is necessary, he contradicts himself.

Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through Faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God.

Ephesians 2:9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

Its not our Faith that saves us...it is the faith imparted upon the Elect, the Chosen of God, by God, that empowers them who have been called...to come. Its all about God, not so much about us.

 

[Spinnaker]

The way I see it, is that what Christ lived and taught compels us to live the same way. Call it obedience if you want.