Some basic questions about God...

[ebia]

I don't think my questions are non-sensical, and I only base my premises on what I have learned about xtianity from xtians themselves (10 years in baptist education). I was always taught that we either go to heaven or hell. So sorry, I'm only basing my questions on what other xtains have said. In light of this, if I've only ever been taught that it's heaven or hell, would the question of who goes to which be quite valid?

It would be in that situation yes, and sadly that is a very common picture. What I'm challenging (or trying to challenge) is that artificial picture of the christian hope in favour of one less influenced by greek dualism and medieval fantasy and closer to the New Testament and the earliest church. Would it not be intesting to find that at least some of your problems with Christianity are not actually inherent to Christianity in its original form but only in its developed and dumbed-down state?

 

[RealityPixie]

It would be in that situation yes, and sadly that is a very common picture. What I'm challenging (or trying to challenge) is that artificial picture of the christian hope in favour of one less influenced by greek dualism and medieval fantasy and closer to the New Testament and the earliest church. Would it not be intesting to find that at least some of your problems with Christianity are not actually inherent to Christianity in its original form but only in its developed and dumbed-down state?

Ok, thankyou for clarifying that. I don't know what you mean by problems with xtianity....if you mean 'why I don't believe' it's because I have not seen any independant scientific evidence for any 'supernatural' beings or happenings, be they gods, ghosts, spirits, other deities, etc. I don't think that really classifies as a problem, just an opinion based on the basics of faith...I don't think that changing the fine print will alter my viewpoint really. But if you mean the general problem atheists seem to have against xtianity (and religion in general), well, honestly we don't care what people believe (most of us anyway, there will always be exceptions!). Our beef comes in with the issue of the separation of church and state and human rights, but that is another issue all together.

Anyway, thankyou everyone for you imput, especially clearing up the Lev things in regard to homosexuality. Just so I can see for myself, it would be awesome if you could provide me with the NT passages regarding such behaviour.

Cheers;

RP

 

[ebia]

Ok, thankyou for clarifying that. I don't know what you mean by problems with xtianity....if you mean 'why I don't believe' it's because I have not seen any independant scientific evidence for any 'supernatural' beings or happenings, be they gods, ghosts, spirits, other deities, etc. I don't think that really classifies as a problem, just an opinion based on the basics of faith...I don't think that changing the fine print will alter my viewpoint really.

In itself possibly not, but if one of the things that you find off-putting about Christianity is the kind of issues you've been talking about, and I can offer a more coherent picture (a) that's a good thing in itself and (b) if some of your other issues get cleared up in the future ....

If you're going to disbelieve, at leat disbelieve the right thing

But if you mean the general problem atheists seem to have against xtianity (and religion in general), well, honestly we don't care what people believe (most of us anyway, there will always be exceptions!). Our beef comes in with the issue of the separation of church and state and human rights, but that is another issue all together.

Christians have as much right to bring their worldview to the discussions of state as anybody else.

Anyway, thankyou everyone for you imput, especially clearing up the Lev things in regard to homosexuality. Just so I can see for myself, it would be awesome if you could provide me with the NT passages regarding such behaviour.

I'm sure someone else can quote them from memory. Personally I don't spend a lot of time dwelling on the matter. The usual proof texts are in Romans 1, 1 Cor 6 and 1 Tim 1.

 

[RealityPixie]

Christians have as much right to bring their worldview to the discussions of state as anybody else.

This is true. However, where atheists get riled up is when different religious groups (not just xtians here) try and enshrine their personal beliefs in law. A good example of this being homosexual marriage. I mean, we get that you don't agree with it, and you have very right not to partake in them. All we ask is that if we do not hold the same beliefs, can we have the option, please? If you don't like homosexual marriage, then just don't marry someone of the same gender (hey, I'm not saying all xtians are against gay marriage, but conservative churches are the main pressure groups against it)

If you want a perspective on what it feels like...just imagine (hypothetical situation) that muslims became as influential in politics as xtians currently are, and they enacted a law that required all women to cover up and wear headscarves. You'd probably be a little bit peeved and see it as a violation of your human rights: thats how atheists feel, in a very simplistic way.


*off topic, sorry guys!*

 

[ebia]

This is true. However, where atheists get riled up is when different religious groups (not just xtians here) try and enshrine their personal beliefs in law. A good example of this being homosexual marriage. I mean, we get that you don't agree with it, and you have very right not to partake in them. All we ask is that if we do not hold the same beliefs, can we have the option, please? If you don't like homosexual marriage, then just don't marry someone of the same gender (hey, I'm not saying all xtians are against gay marriage, but conservative churches are the main pressure groups against it)

If anyone understands a particular behaviour as harmful to a third-party or to the wider society then they quite reasonably want to prohibit it by law.

If you want a perspective on what it feels like...just imagine (hypothetical situation) that muslims became as influential in politics as xtians currently are, and they enacted a law that required all women to cover up and wear headscarves. You'd probably be a little bit peeved and see it as a violation of your human rights: thats how atheists feel, in a very simplistic way.

Never-the-less, if Muslims feel that the behaviour is harmful to a significant degree then I would expect them to campaign for its prohibition, even though I disagree with them.

Your position seems to presuppose that values drawn from your supposedly objective worldview are somehow superior to values drawn from other worldviews.

In a democracy we all have a right to bring our values to the table, and a duty to respect the diversity of others.

*off topic, sorry guys!*

Exactly why I'm not going to get into a discussion about the detailed examples given.