Some are not going to feel comfortable

All4HISglory · Mar 29, 2012

mkgal1 said:
I'm a born and raised California girl. I'm also Irish...raised Catholic....attended Catholic schools, and never thought racism was ever a factor here. My dad is from the Tennesse/Virginia/Kentucky area, and we visited his home town when I was about 14 years old. I couldn't believe how people spoke there (just everyday casual speak).........how divisive it all was, "I don't know that area.....that's the black area, so I never visit there"...things were said like that.

However.....I wouldn't say that California is necessarily "progressive" it's just that racism is kept hidden......it's more in people's attitudes. I *do* think it affects how people are (mis)treated.....and when it's in attitudes, it's more difficult to fight against.

That's sad that people refer to a certain area as being "the black area". But it's real and relevant.

What part of CA are you from? I agree about racism being hidden but overall, CA is one of the more tolerant and acceptance practicing states. But I have seen some hidden stuff. There was a town we use to drive though going from Sac to LA called Chowchilla. It was extremely racists that we would make sure we would not stop there to refuel or use the bathroom.

~For Your glory Lord {iPad}

mkgal1 · Mar 29, 2012

Did you hear him talk about his experience in the bar in Germany?

He's originally from the Bronx, BTW.

dallasapple · Mar 29, 2012

What ya'll are talking about that kind of talk I have heard ..form wher and I grew up.. Im from Brimingham Al. originally and then Florida as a little girl..in the late 60's mostly 70's...

"the blacks" was a common term I heard..Thats "not good" but in a way ..knowing what i know now?I feel blessed I was spared/ "sheltered" and not exposed to blatant racism..the "hatred"... my family as far as I know did not have racist views or hearts..i never even heard anyone "use" the "N" word until I was much older like in my early teens and by then I had been taught that was a VERY bad word..our mother told us never to ever say that..I htink my face turned red as a beet (like if someone had said the F word ) the first tiem I heard it..evne though at that time I never even knew how much WORSE it was than the F word..Like it was a 'hate word" I learned that later...

IOW I was pretty sheltered considred where I came from evne though we were CLEARLY segragated for a lot of it..even if not by law..I was growing up before it was "fully integrated " ...not enough time had gone by in the South anyway..

Dallas

k450ofu3k-gh-5ipe · Mar 31, 2012

Avniel said:
That had nothing to do with your race I've had my bike stolen my friends have too. That's part of growing up without in an inner city. But the two big differences was they hated the lady because she was black they just wanted your bike. I'd rather be robbed for something I had then intimidated for my color.

That's the thing though. If I was black and the boys stealing my bike were white, you would assume that it was racially motivated. But because I'm white and the perps were black, you assume that there is no racial motivation. That's the problem--you are assuming. I have no idea if the boys stealing my bike were racially motivated or not because I have no evidence supporting either side. It could have been racially motivated and it also very well could have not been racially motivated. Most of the examples you've given me to demonstrate racism in this country are situations just like the personal story I gave. When looking at the actual facts of the situation, there is no evidence for or against the occurrence of racism (and in some of the cases--your Prof Gates example for instance--there is strong evidence pointing to a conclusion of no racism on the part of the officer involved. In the Gates case, it's actually Gates himself who can be demonstrated as being the racist in the situation). To just assume there is racism when anything happens to a black person by a white person is wrong.

My point is assuming there is racial motivation when there is no evidence of racial motivation is not helpful to anyone. It just makes you look bad and makes it so people won't take you seriously. If you cry racism when there is no evidence of racism, you become the boy who cried wolf, and when there is a situation with real racism, people won't take you as seriously because you've already cried racism dozens of times when there was no racism.

Don't be the boy who cried wolf.

k450ofu3k-gh-5ipe · Mar 31, 2012

All4HISglory said:
I disagree with it being about age.

His racial slur has nothing to do with age. In fact the only thing that makes it even worst is the age. This was clearly a boy. Even his most recent pictures shows the innocence on his face. A grown man looked at him and saw his race and assumed. So much to the point that he felt threatened (so he says). Nothing about the pictures, I've seen of the victim screams threat. He was a child killed by a man due to the color of his skin.

~For Your glory Lord {iPad}

I agree. From the 911 recordings, it's very safe to say that the murder was at the very least somewhat racially motivated. I mentioned perhaps an age related discrimination element because the killer in this case mentioned "those people" or something similar, and he may have been referring to "young black males" specifically which would have an age related as well as racist component. I mention this because young black males are the most statistically likely people group to commit crime so it's not uncommon for vigilantes to profile the most statistically likely to prevent crime people group in a particular area.

There's no strong evidence either way for age discrimination but there is strong evidence demonstrating racism so in that regard I agree with you.

donnamabob · Mar 31, 2012

Avniel said:
So I'm going to start off by saying we as brothers and sisters of Christ should be able to talk about anything and no hard or bad feelings should come from it.

So my wife and I are paying attention to the case of the black Florida teen that was shot by the night watch. We had a conversation that lead us to a deep side that a few people are taking it to. What do we teach our son about his reality of being black in America?

My thoughts were I would tell my son that he can not do everything he sees. The fact is I'm a law school student married and with a child I was pulled over because I have a charger with rims and tinted windows I was driving at night time with a hoodie over my head and I was pulled over. That is my sons reality to avoid trouble he shouldn't put rims on his car, he shouldn't wear hoodies in certain areas, he can't be in a car with 4 of his friends at night or he has a higher chance of being in a dangerous situation. The reality is my son is a black child in America and he can't walk around like there is no such thing as racial profiling. That is his reality.

My wife on the other hand she is more of an idealist. If he likes rims, if he wants to go out with his friends if he wants to dress a certain way he should this is America and he has rights.

Yeah I agree he should but just because someone should be able to or it's only fair that they are able to doesn't mean that the reality they live in is fair. Life isn't fair all persons living has to find away around it.

What do y'all think????

Hi there, I have a couple of thoughts off the top of my head.

First of all, I'm white, and I have a friend who is white who was also once driving at night in a hoodie because he was chilly. He also got pulled over. And also, I've experienced the same kind of profiling when I was a teenager because I drove a piece of junk car that was falling apart. I got pulled over about 4 times in that year for bogus reasons, but then as soon as I got a "normal" looking car, I wasn't pulled over at all for many years after that. I guess I'm just trying to make the point that while racial profiling does obviously exist, there are lots of other kinds of profiling out there too. I think that just generally speaking, there is a tendency to be suspicious of anyone who does not fit the "mold" of an average citizen.

I personally think that it is wise for any parent to teach their child to avoid trouble. We're called to represent Christ, and we need to all see past our "rights" and do whatever we can to do that. The fact of the matter is that a car full of black young men would scare a lot of white people, and I don't think that scaring people is representing Christ. This doesn't mean that things *should* be this way, and maybe they won't be this way forever, but for now, they *are* this way. If putting on a suit and tie and driving a Volvo is what it takes to spread the gospel, than that should be more important then self expression.

When I was a teenager, my parents let me dye my hair all kinds of colors - pink, purple, blue, etc. I looked like a complete idiot haha, but it is what it is. Anyway, I was a Christian, and there was really nothing inherently "wrong" with me, but one day, I had a mean man THROW a "Jesus" poster at my face and walk away. In other words, he took one look at my outward appearance and couldn't see Christ in me, even though he was there. People saw me and thought that I *needed* Jesus, instead of seeing me and thinking to themselves that there is something different about me that they want.

I don't know if any of this is helpful or not, and I don't even know if I'm right about any of it. But I do sincerely hope that it helps you to make the decision that is best for your family/God's kingdom.

EDIT: I thought of this scripture after posting this....The apostle Paul said in 1 Corinthians 9:22 "To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some."

I think that this conversation needs to be turned towards JESUS, and away from debating the details of satans plan to destroy this country through racism (not to suggest that it should be ignored).

mkgal1 · Mar 31, 2012

Chip Ingram just completed a series titled, Diabolical, that's about satan's agenda. This is from his notes on part 5 (Perpetuate Prejudice). I thought it was appropos:

Agenda #5 – Perpetuate Prejudice Acts 10
Introduction – [FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Operation Insulation[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]We are all born into a cultural [/FONT][/FONT]BIAS[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Apart from interaction outside "our group," we grow up assuming "our view" accurately defines reality. [/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Generations of socialization and [/FONT][/FONT]INDOCTRINATION create barriers [FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]at best and [/FONT][/FONT]hatred at worst [FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]with those who are different from ourselves. [/FONT][/FONT]

Internal [FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]inaccurate assessment (pride) and [/FONT][/FONT]external [FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]inaccurate assessment (prejudice) result in the fulfillment of Satan’s agenda – to kill, steal and destroy. [/FONT][/FONT]

Pride [FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]– "a high or inordinate opinion of one’s own dignity, importance, merit, or superiority, whether as cherished in the mind or as displayed in behavior" [/FONT][/FONT]Prejudice [FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]– (1) : " preconceived judgment or opinion (2) : an adverse opinion or learning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge" [/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]: "an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics" (Webster’s) [/FONT]

[/FONT]The Problem [FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]– Prejudice creates walls between individuals and groups so the Gospel cannot move from one group to another. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]God's truth *did* bring two groups together (that had racial bias) in Acts 8.
[/FONT]

Avniel · Apr 2, 2012

donnamabob said:
Hi there, I have a couple of thoughts off the top of my head.

First of all, I'm white, and I have a friend who is white who was also once driving at night in a hoodie because he was chilly. He also got pulled over. And also, I've experienced the same kind of profiling when I was a teenager because I drove a piece of junk car that was falling apart. I got pulled over about 4 times in that year for bogus reasons, but then as soon as I got a "normal" looking car, I wasn't pulled over at all for many years after that. I guess I'm just trying to make the point that while racial profiling does obviously exist, there are lots of other kinds of profiling out there too. I think that just generally speaking, there is a tendency to be suspicious of anyone who does not fit the "mold" of an average citizen.

I personally think that it is wise for any parent to teach their child to avoid trouble. We're called to represent Christ, and we need to all see past our "rights" and do whatever we can to do that. The fact of the matter is that a car full of black young men would scare a lot of white people, and I don't think that scaring people is representing Christ. This doesn't mean that things *should* be this way, and maybe they won't be this way forever, but for now, they *are* this way. If putting on a suit and tie and driving a Volvo is what it takes to spread the gospel, than that should be more important then self expression.

When I was a teenager, my parents let me dye my hair all kinds of colors - pink, purple, blue, etc. I looked like a complete idiot haha, but it is what it is. Anyway, I was a Christian, and there was really nothing inherently "wrong" with me, but one day, I had a mean man THROW a "Jesus" poster at my face and walk away. In other words, he took one look at my outward appearance and couldn't see Christ in me, even though he was there. People saw me and thought that I *needed* Jesus, instead of seeing me and thinking to themselves that there is something different about me that they want.

I don't know if any of this is helpful or not, and I don't even know if I'm right about any of it. But I do sincerely hope that it helps you to make the decision that is best for your family/God's kingdom.

EDIT: I thought of this scripture after posting this....The apostle Paul said in 1 Corinthians 9:22 "To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some."

I think that this conversation needs to be turned towards JESUS, and away from debating the details of satans plan to destroy this country through racism (not to suggest that it should be ignored).

Truthfully I don't think four friends all in college and trying to go into professions should have to drive in different cars to go to the wing spot with 25 cent wings on thursday because of the color of their skin. I don't think Jesus requires black people to waste gas money or not go because of the color of their skin. That means spreading the gospel is prejudice and it is not.

That statement really did offend me a tad bit. Me and my law school friends shouldn't ride in a car together because we are black despite the fact we worked hard and just want to grab a bite and relax and have fun?

Also I work hard for my money and I went from having nothing to be blessed emotionally, spiritually and financially. But because I'm a black man I have to drive a Volvo and wear a shirt and a tie to the grocery store? Just because of the color of my skin? I have to live as a second class citzen in bondage to my complexion a slave to my hair the whipping boy for ignorance. All in the name of serving Jesus?

When in fact the car I drive the clothes I wear is a testimony in my neighborhood. The fact im young and black with a beautiful wife a new baby boy a sweet ride and some fly clothes so blessed that police think I'm selling drugs is a ministry itself. When I show up to the park to play ball everyone knows me I'm highly respected. I walk to the corner store by myself at anytime and in the Bronx I've never been robbed. I get the same respect as drug dealers and gang members. Because like them I'm willing to die for my principles and those principles are built around the bible.

My ministry is the kids that are pOor and have nothing I spread the gospel to wanna be drug dealers. I tell kids that ask me how did I get here, faith in Christ hard work and an education. With those three things and following God's will you can come from poverty you don't need to sell drugs or be in gang for money or respect.. That is something they don't see all the bosses they know rap about selling drugs or sell them for real. And when a mother comes and sends me a thank you card because her son is going to college I thank God for using me to show them a different way.

But your saying I'm wrong because my clothes or me and my friends are are using our profession to spread God's word and uplift our community just because some white people would be scared? That's showing no regard for that black child that will only see success from the "Block" and never from a professional that looks like them.

Today I'm at the corner store getting a egg and cheese I see my lil homie from my ave tell some boy "your stupid I can more money being a international business man then you will ever get out on Seymour, your gonna be stuck here and I'm going to see the world. Son you ain't never gonna be blessed Imma make money and serve God you gonna make money die and burn." that's what made me respond because he sees and gets it.

Avniel · Apr 2, 2012

dallasapple said:
What ya'll are talking about that kind of talk I have heard ..form wher and I grew up.. Im from Brimingham Al. originally and then Florida as a little girl..in the late 60's mostly 70's...

"the blacks" was a common term I heard..Thats "not good" but in a way ..knowing what i know now?I feel blessed I was spared/ "sheltered" and not exposed to blatant racism..the "hatred"... my family as far as I know did not have racist views or hearts..i never even heard anyone "use" the "N" word until I was much older like in my early teens and by then I had been taught that was a VERY bad word..our mother told us never to ever say that..I htink my face turned red as a beet (like if someone had said the F word ) the first tiem I heard it..evne though at that time I never even knew how much WORSE it was than the F word..Like it was a 'hate word" I learned that later...

IOW I was pretty sheltered considred where I came from evne though we were CLEARLY segragated for a lot of it..even if not by law..I was growing up before it was "fully integrated " ...not enough time had gone by in the South anyway..

Dallas

Most racism I have encountered has been from poverty stricken kids over exposed to reality of life to those exposed but only at a high school level. Most people I meet that have been to college seem to be more understanding and accepting of cultural differences and a majority of those people were sheltered as children.

I doubt you Dallas have a racist bone in your body. You lack the ability to generalize you don't understand how someone can say all people majority ect...you see everyone as individuals because you were sheltered. That is probably your biggest asset and most freeing thought process as well. You will never be able to understand sexism or racism because you can never think like that and it is beyond your understanding. But that is also the reason you can recognize it because it so strange to you it sticks out.

Avniel · Apr 2, 2012

mkgal1 said:
Chip Ingram just completed a series titled, Diabolical, that's about satan's agenda. This is from his notes on part 5 (Perpetuate Prejudice). I thought it was appropos:

Agenda #5 Perpetuate Prejudice Acts 10
Introduction  [FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Operation Insulation[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]We are all born into a cultural [/FONT][/FONT]BIAS[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Apart from interaction outside "our group," we grow up assuming "our view" accurately defines reality. [/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Generations of socialization and [/FONT][/FONT]INDOCTRINATION create barriers [FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]at best and [/FONT][/FONT]hatred at worst [FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]with those who are different from ourselves. [/FONT][/FONT]

Internal [FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]inaccurate assessment (pride) and [/FONT][/FONT]external [FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]inaccurate assessment (prejudice) result in the fulfillment of Satans agenda to kill, steal and destroy. [/FONT][/FONT]

Pride [FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri] "a high or inordinate opinion of ones own dignity, importance, merit, or superiority, whether as cherished in the mind or as displayed in behavior" [/FONT][/FONT]Prejudice [FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri] (1) : " preconceived judgment or opinion (2) : an adverse opinion or learning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge" [/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]: "an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics" (Websters) [/FONT]

[/FONT]The Problem [FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri] Prejudice creates walls between individuals and groups so the Gospel cannot move from one group to another. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]God's truth *did* bring two groups together (that had racial bias) in Acts 8.
[/FONT]

I actually agree with you but the fear of hate crimes or racial profiling is still a very real threat. People lose their lives based on these bias cognitions we as Christians can't ignore that this thought process exists and me as a black father can't ignore that I will have to explain to my son that based on the color of his skin not everything or everyone will accept him as who he is. That is the reality.

Maybe we should start a movement Christians against racism and sexism and injustice.

tannicv2 · Apr 2, 2012

Avniel said:
Most racism I have encountered has been from poverty stricken kids over exposed to reality of life to those exposed but only at a high school level. Most people I meet that have been to college seem to be more understanding and accepting of cultural differences and a majority of those people were sheltered as children.

There really isn't a point of profiling where anyone stays because it's everywhere. No matter what level you look at it from. It's all the same. The black community don't trust and prolly never will trust the police due to unfair experiences. There really isn't a point for me discussing it. It's a deep seed of hate between races that only got better through laws that both sides actually enforced. Cultural differences... they are always going to be sterotyped regardless so why bother.

donnamabob · Apr 2, 2012

Avniel said:
Truthfully I don't think four friends all in college and trying to go into professions should have to drive in different cars to go to the wing spot with 25 cent wings on thursday because of the color of their skin. I don't think Jesus requires black people to waste gas money or not go because of the color of their skin. That means spreading the gospel is prejudice and it is not.

That statement really did offend me a tad bit. Me and my law school friends shouldn't ride in a car together because we are black despite the fact we worked hard and just want to grab a bite and relax and have fun?

Also I work hard for my money and I went from having nothing to be blessed emotionally, spiritually and financially. But because I'm a black man I have to drive a Volvo and wear a shirt and a tie to the grocery store? Just because of the color of my skin? I have to live as a second class citzen in bondage to my complexion a slave to my hair the whipping boy for ignorance. All in the name of serving Jesus?

When in fact the car I drive the clothes I wear is a testimony in my neighborhood. The fact im young and black with a beautiful wife a new baby boy a sweet ride and some fly clothes so blessed that police think I'm selling drugs is a ministry itself. When I show up to the park to play ball everyone knows me I'm highly respected. I walk to the corner store by myself at anytime and in the Bronx I've never been robbed. I get the same respect as drug dealers and gang members. Because like them I'm willing to die for my principles and those principles are built around the bible.

My ministry is the kids that are pOor and have nothing I spread the gospel to wanna be drug dealers. I tell kids that ask me how did I get here, faith in Christ hard work and an education. With those three things and following God's will you can come from poverty you don't need to sell drugs or be in gang for money or respect.. That is something they don't see all the bosses they know rap about selling drugs or sell them for real. And when a mother comes and sends me a thank you card because her son is going to college I thank God for using me to show them a different way.

But your saying I'm wrong because my clothes or me and my friends are are using our profession to spread God's word and uplift our community just because some white people would be scared? That's showing no regard for that black child that will only see success from the "Block" and never from a professional that looks like them.

Today I'm at the corner store getting a egg and cheese I see my lil homie from my ave tell some boy "your stupid I can more money being a international business man then you will ever get out on Seymour, your gonna be stuck here and I'm going to see the world. Son you ain't never gonna be blessed Imma make money and serve God you gonna make money die and burn." that's what made me respond because he sees and gets it.

Well, I'll tell ya...if just one black person would forget about their rights for a minute and help to guide me around my own mental roadblocks and ignorance, it could change my life. Would that not be worth the sacrifice to you?

mkgal1 · Apr 2, 2012

donnamabob said:
Well, I'll tell ya...if just one black person would forget about their rights for a minute and help to guide me around my own mental roadblocks and ignorance, it could change my life. Would that not be worth the sacrifice to you?

Donna, you had said to Avniel that he NEEDS to represent Christ in a specific way---(wearing a suit and driving a Volvo). Based on Christ sitting with the Samaritan woman at the well (both a racial & gender bias issue).....I don't think that driving a Volvo and wearing a suit is what He (Christ) would require.

Acts chapter 8 (I believe) demonstrates what brings races together that are at odds--and I didn't see a Volvo or a suit involved.

(Do you put on a suit each time you leave your home? Are you concerned about what it looks like if you and 3 other friends want to ride share?)

ETA--I'm not sure if you saw the notes I had pasted on the other page, but here's a bit of it:

Generations of socialization and INDOCTRINATION create barriers at best and hatred at worst with those who are different from ourselves.

Internal inaccurate assessment (pride) and external inaccurate assessment (prejudice) result in the fulfillment of Satan’s agenda – to kill, steal and destroy.

Prejudice [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]– (1) : " preconceived judgment or opinion (2) : an adverse opinion or learning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge" [/FONT]
: "an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics" (Webster’s)

mkgal1 · Apr 2, 2012

Avniel said:
I actually agree with you but the fear of hate crimes or racial profiling is still a very real threat. People lose their lives based on these bias cognitions we as Christians can't ignore that this thought process exists and me as a black father can't ignore that I will have to explain to my son that based on the color of his skin not everything or everyone will accept him as who he is. That is the reality.

Maybe we should start a movement Christians against racism and sexism and injustice.

I agree with you that it's a very real threat, and that people lose their lives based on these prejudices. I don't know what's worse...the people that actually doing the killing---or the ones that cover it up and claim it's justified.

“There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus”

Avniel · Apr 2, 2012

donnamabob said:
Well, I'll tell ya...if just one black person would forget about their rights for a minute and help to guide me around my own mental roadblocks and ignorance, it could change my life. Would that not be worth the sacrifice to you?

No it's not worth it. Me sacrificing who I am, what my personality, my culture, my style and my swag for your personal roadblocks is outside the will of God. My purpose isn't my calling. But I can give you another choice hit me up on business hours or in a business meeting and we can remove your road blocks. I will be in Italian suits and shoes or maybe even in church. But as far as me and knowing me on a personal level unless it's 5k or more involved I'm not changing my clothes or anything like that.

You want to meet someone like that meet some black people we are allll different like every other race in America.

But I'm not going to change me to make you know not to stereotype why would I do that?

Avniel · Apr 2, 2012

mkgal1 said:
Donna, you had said to Avniel that he NEEDS to represent Christ in a specific way---(wearing a suit and driving a Volvo). Based on Christ sitting with the Samaritan woman at the well (both a racial & gender bias issue).....I don't think that driving a Volvo and wearing a suit is what He (Christ) would require.

Acts chapter 8 (I believe) demonstrates what brings races together that are at odds--and I didn't see a Volvo or a suit involved.

(Do you put on a suit each time you leave your home? Are you concerned about what it looks like if you and 3 other friends want to ride share?)

ETA--I'm not sure if you saw the notes I had pasted on the other page, but here's a bit of it:

Truthfully it really bothers me when I'm told how to dress and what kind of car to drive based on my race....using the bible as the a blue print for oppression.

It kinda reminds me of change your name, pick this cotton/sugar cane because the bible says because your black xyz.

The thing that really offends me is I can struggle to finish school, get accepted into law school, graduate, work hard do well.....pay my tithes, give to the poor, take care of my family, maintain a Christian stable home environment, have a savings, health and life insurance, and good investments that are working for me.......and because of the color of my skin I have to buy a Volvo??? Because a black man in a volvo says not a threat????? That's what I don't understand. No matter how hard I work I shouldnt strive for a certain luxury due to my skin complexion.

The statement if one black person puts down their rights is offensive.
1)their are black people that wear suits and drive Volvo
2)to ask a human regardless of race to put down their rights is horrible and historically culturally insensitive.
3)not all black people act the same we are a race of individuals. I went to an hbcu Morehouse college which basically had no one on a full ride. There were many types of black people preps, jocks, nerds, thugs, cool kids as well as lames and so much more. 16k a sem majority were kids of professionals.

You are 100% correct.

gabrielle2012 · Apr 2, 2012

Avniel said:
No it's not worth it. Me sacrificing who I am, what my personality, my culture, my style and my swag for your personal roadblocks is outside the will of God. My purpose isn't my calling. But I can give you another choice hit me up on business hours or in a business meeting and we can remove your road blocks. I will be in Italian suits and shoes or maybe even in church. But as far as me and knowing me on a personal level unless it's 5k or more involved I'm not changing my clothes or anything like that.

You want to meet someone like that meet some black people we are allll different like every other race in America.

But I'm not going to change me to make you know not to stereotype why would I do that?

Well said!

donnamabob · Apr 2, 2012

Avniel said:
No it's not worth it. Me sacrificing who I am, what my personality, my culture, my style and my swag for your personal roadblocks is outside the will of God. My purpose isn't my calling. But I can give you another choice hit me up on business hours or in a business meeting and we can remove your road blocks. I will be in Italian suits and shoes or maybe even in church. But as far as me and knowing me on a personal level unless it's 5k or more involved I'm not changing my clothes or anything like that.

You want to meet someone like that meet some black people we are allll different like every other race in America.

But I'm not going to change me to make you know not to stereotype why would I do that?

Well, it was worth it to Paul the Apostle. 1 Corinthians 9:19-22 "Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from Gods law but am under Christs law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings."

Could you not see him (if he were black) saying here..."to the whites, I became like a white, to win the whites"?

And to answer your question, you would do it out of love for me.

Avniel · Apr 2, 2012

donnamabob said:
Well, it was worth it to Paul the Apostle. 1 Corinthians 9:19-22 "Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings."

Could you not see him (if he were black) saying here..."to the whites, I became like a white, to win the whites"?

And to answer your question, you would do it out of love for me.

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails.

If I change who I am personally culturally I wouldn't be doing it out of love. This would be a lie. Why would you want to know someone on a superficial level never knowing them personally.

One of my best friends a self proclaimed white prejudice man was actually in my wedding. I met him in ms he was from ct and was moving in....I was bbqing and said hello and he invited me for a beer. He kept commenting on how well spoken I was. We talked politics, race, religion, women and life. When I left ms he was standing up for any racial comment he heard with "I don't my neighbor is a Jamaican kid from the Bronx and he's a good guy." I don't need to change me all I have to do is be truthful and be me.

If I do anything else I'm not loving you because love isn't a lie.

mkgal1 · Apr 3, 2012

donnamabob said:
Well, it was worth it to Paul the Apostle. 1 Corinthians 9:19-22 "Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings."

Could you not see him (if he were black) saying here..."to the whites, I became like a white, to win the whites"?

And to answer your question, you would do it out of love for me.

And can't that be flipped around and directed towards you? Doesn't it flow in both directions?

From what I understand about that passage, it's like going to someone's house for dinner. You wouldn't be a guest in someone's home and ridicule their customs and house rules. IOW....it's about NOT having prejudices. Avniel isn't a guest in his neighborhood. That's his home, and he should be able to be just as "at home" there as you are in your neighborhood.

Some are not going to feel comfortable

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